Half wits breeding half breds
Oct 04 2007
We’ve had this discussion before, but I want to clarify that not all crossbreds are bad. For example, you can cross a show quality Saddlebred and a show quality Arabian and get an equally nice, show quality National Show Horse. Those are two breeds that blend well together. They are targeted toward the same disciplines and their conformation is complementary. The resultant foal may be registered and shown in breed shows.
The problems come when someone cannot afford a 100% Trendy Horse Breed Du Jour and therefore decides that a nifty solution would be horses that are 50% Trendy Horse Breed Du Jour. Typically, these folks don’t give a rat’s ass about the quality of the Trendy Sire (if it’s a Gypsy Vanner or a Friesian or, in this case, a Norwegian Fjord, it must be good, right? Like all Mercedes are good! Yeah, okay…) and they think the Magikal Sperm of the Trendy Sire will overcome any weaknesses in their shitty, backyard auction-rescued mixed breed puke of a mare.
Sadly, that is not how it works, and this is proven in today’s example, described by its owner as a “grade sport pony type filly.” Owner goes on to brag that “has had 3 weeks worth of bandaging twice a day so she is great with her legs!” This is because she injured her right foreleg. Looking at that fence, and the amount of crap laying around everywhere, I simply cannot imagine how such a thing could have happened. They note that she is for sale because she is smaller than they had anticipated, although they state she will mature 13-14 hh. Well, their mare was 14 hh and the sire was a Fjord, exactly what were they expecting? You are not going to get 16.2 from that cross!
This filly is not going to win any beauty contests. Her head reminds me of a polo pony I used to know called Scout, but referred to behind his owner’s back as “Snout.” Her shoulder’s good but her neck is short and unattractive. There are no decent pictures here – she looks sickle hocked but may be ok, it’s hard to say. Her front pasterns are very long and weak and she’s not just toed out – if you look below, her knees point out – the leg isn’t straight at any point. I am ok with her being downhill because she’s 16 months but the other things, she isn’t going to grow out of. The lump of proud flesh just adds to the picture! (Did you know there are remedies for that? Yes, there are!)
You know why I gripe about heads? I agree with you all who say you can’t ride the head. That’s true. But no one wants to buy an ugly pony. They don’t. Try to sell one and you will see how true this is! Face it, judges want a whole picture. They want a pony that is elegant to look at, moves well, and jumps well – and buyers want a pony with a good disposition that their kid can manage without major drama. If you are going to breed sport ponies, you had better be breeding for all of these elements or you are going to wind up with a herd of fugly ponies in the backyard that you can’t get rid of, much like this lady.
But hey, the half Fjord pony can be yours for the low low price of only $2000 or trade for a stock trailer. Here’s the problem with that: So can the pony at left. This pony is five years old. Here is her description “She is currently being schooled over poles and cross poles. She is willing and going very nicely. Moves off your leg and collects up. Flat knee and nice stride. Canter is cadenced and balanced. She is great outside or in the arena. Pretty little mare with tons of potential. Likes to jump.” While this isn’t a $20,000 conformation pony either (I suspect it is just a midget QH, the ad doesn’t say), if you have $2000 to spend, you’d be a lot smarter buying this pony – who you could resell after one show season and make a tidy profit.
(The really funny part is, I could probably convince a buyer that this dun filly is a half Fjord before I could convince them the filly at the top is!)
Moral of the story, as usual: STOP BREEDING CRAP. There is absolutely NO incentive for a buyer to purchase your crooked-legged, fugly headed yearling when they can take the same $2000 and buy a cute, trendy colored pony that only needs minimal finishing to go show. The horse market did not get this way overnight. Doing a tiny bit of research would have revealed the facts of life to you 2 years ago, BEFORE you bred your backyard pony to someone’s Fjord. Think, think, think before you bring horses into the world that there is no market for!
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the-farmer’s-wife said…
“New FHOTD motto suggestion: Just because you CAN do something is no reason you SHOULD do something.”
First heard this in Jurrassic Park, the first movie, 1993. It’s spot on. And it’s gonna become even more apt in the future with embryo transfer, cloning, etc. becoming more doable.
Horsepoor-
She’s got something going on fo’ sho’, fo’ sho’.
The reason many of the EIR folks suggest grass or timothy is to reduce calories, starches and sugars in the diet, as well as working them to increase the circulation to the lower legs and feet. Both will help with weight loss, which cannot be a bad side effect.
My daughters pony, showed signs of foundering 2 summers back, while pregnant with her third foal. She can look at a small amount of alfalfa and balloon in weight.
When researching things I ‘stumbled’ across the EIR symptoms page of a website. As I read through it I was floored and thinking- yep, yep, yep, her, her, her to a T.
For those who said the mare looked on the verge of founder, since diabetics sometimes have poor circulation in their limbs. In horses this leads to laminitis, founder and sometimes navicular, either from the EIR, obesity or a combination of the two. Go figure!
There are several other health problems that go hand in hand and carry over in similarities between humans and horses. I am off to do more digging…
For any of you about to, don’t jump on me for breeding the mare 3 times. She was preg when I bought her, I bred her twice, both fillies were nice(thought the second one was by far nicer than the first!) and she is off the broodmare list and will NEVER be bred again.
She is 16 y/o this year and full of life as ever. I see no reason to breed her to produce a bunch of short (she’s 42 inches at the withers)little ponies to dredge around a pony ring or a birthday party, with some screaming brat on it’s back so someone can snap a cute picture of little Tommy dressed as a cowboy.
Yep. These fugly half-breds are my specialty. Before I’m roasted… These are the animals I get from auctions, figure out a way to get them thinking that being rode and either following cows or letting a weekender head ‘em down a trail is the best thing in the world. Then I find them a great home with someone that just thinks they are beautiful (“he has beautiful eyes…”). I wouldn’t mind getting put out of business, though.
Don’t breed no fugly horses!
Bless you boots for giving the fuglies a chance.
As for the fugly BYB’s…off with their heads I say!
cutnjump,
thanks for that info on EIR. I will have to read up on that. While I have no idea whether that mare has that condition, I can say (from experience) that Pasos have a tendency towards being “easy keepers”, which they do acknowledge in the ad. But, that mare should be on a strict diet in her condition, or at the very least have blood work done. I have several easy keepers, and one of the first signs that I need to take them off the pasture, is a thick and hard crest. Mine will get big bellies on them, but they’ve never gotten that blubber butt like that mare! Depending on who the owner is, and where they learned their (Paso)horse care, could be part of the reason she looks that way. There are many Paso owners (show people mostly) that overfeed their show horses to the point of being near founder. I’ve seen it hundreds of times at the shows. It’s pretty sad to see their tails disappear between buttcheeks, and their thick necks starting to fall over at the crest.
it certainly would be interesting to read whether Pasos (or any breed) are more susceptible than other breeds to EIR.
A friend of mine’s Morgan has PPSM AND Insulin resistance. Oh goody. very restricted on feed. No hay, special pelletted feed, etc.
I had understood that (perhaps only Peruvian) Pasos were very susceptible or had high numbers of horses with suspensory desmoiditis? It does occur in other breeds, but not with such frequency as it does in Pasos? Have you heard of this?
The Gospel According To Larry said… thats just how people talk down here…
I am from the DEEP south where people say not only those things but much, much worse. That does not make it right. And I certainly do not use my upbringing as an excuse to remain ignorant. It’s not about being “pc”, it’s about considering others’ feelings and refraining from embarassing yourself by showing what a small-minded person you are.
Sandy M said…
Shadow Rider – Yeah, all horses that “work for a living” are eventually going to have problems, but these problems seem premature in many draft crosses. :::
I have to say, I’ve seen more hock problems with branded Hanoverians, Westphalians, SWB’s and other “non-draft” (rolling eyes) warmbloods than with any other “type” of horse. It’s not uncommon for these horses to have their hocks injected before they’re 8 years old. And really, most are not worked that hard.
Fantasia – I guess it’s what you see/work around. At my barn (and the H/J barn next door) there are a LOT of WBs, a large smattering of TBs, couple of appendix QH, some Arabs, and me and my Appies (they think I’m crazy – especially now with an Arab/Appy! LOL). At my trainer’s barn, there are most WBs, an Arab or two, couple of TBs, a Lipp, and there WAS the draft cross I mentioned. The full draft is at my barn. The other Shire/TB was a friend’s who lived out of state, but told me of her soundness issues with this horse. Of the WBs (and there are quite a few), only a few are regularly injected with HA and/or Adequan. All the draft crosses have had issues. The soundness issues that I see more often in the WBs are ligament and tendon than hocks. But that’s just ones I know personally. Your mileage may vary. Almost all of the horses that I KNOW are having hock injects are early to mid-teen. Not aware of any as young as 6,7 8, though I certainly have heard of it and run screaming from the thought! ;0)
Now….I do know some barns that start to inject the horses at a fairly early age WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE ISSUES. I don’t understand this with regard to AI HA. I have no problem with it if they are doing IV Legend on a monthly basis. Wish I could afford it (that is, monthly IV Legend. I did it for a while with my old fellow before I retired him.) Youngster, obviously, doesn’t need it.
Graywolf-
The way I found out about EIR or stumbled across it rather, was this, my pony stallion had developed a cresty neck as he also looks longingly at alfalfa and gains weight.
I remembered seeing an ad in a magazine for a supplement which got rid of that. Searched the mags- couldn’t find it. I went online and typed in cresty neck and BAM BA LAM the results cam in and almost every one had something about EIR. I ticked off on my fingers the symtoms on the one site (which dumb ass me, I didn’t save to favorites, so please don’t ask) and taa daaa… not happy about it, but at least I have a more educated idea of just what’s going on.
Most of the EIR sites say that ponies are more prone to EIR. Some of our local vets will tell you they are ALL prone to founder too. Repeatedly.
I would guess these two, to go hand in hand with the fact that as previously stated, these EIR cases are generally discovered as a result of obesity and/or lameness.
Diet and excercise would obviously benifit in prevention (I know what a concept? duh!) and management of the condition. Just like diabetes can be managed in some cases by diet and exercise, while others it aids in the treatment.
No I never did find the original supplement I went in search of to begin with. It contained a mineral that began with a P. I don’t think it was potassium since that would be like adding salt to his diet and he would retain water, probably making him look worse than he started.
If I got him out and worked him like I should, he will one day make a fancy driving pony put to the Meadowbrook cart we bought for him… He is the kind you could easily put to a cart hop in and just go, but common sense and safety always overule.
Horsepoor- Have a drink for me. I have to wait until I get home, feed the ponies and off to sushi with the barn gang. I’ll raise my shot glass one for ya though when I get there. And I’ll raise it again for the rest of us just because. Salud!
Dear OrangeElmo, thanks for the source on that quote. Never saw the movie but the phrase must have stuck to me somehow. And it applies to so many things we humans do…..because we CAN.
Re cloning/embryo transfer, etc. In my breed ET is allowed, part of a continuim that began with shipping semen, freezing semen & eggs, bloodtyping for parentage, then DNA, then ET. I believe (other Morganites correct me if I’m wrong) a mare is limited to 2 per year. At our stallion service auctions occasionally there is an offering of an egg or an embryo on the block.
Some believe (and I am one of the some) that modern reproductive technology has reduced our gene pool because certain popular stallions receive more breedings by shipping a can of sperm than by shipping a mare across the country. It weights our weanling/yearling futurities (in-hand!!!!) towards popular stallions with the $ and gumption for big marketing campaigns. But, I am happy to say, there are many good/excellent stallions hiding out in small barns and backyards and ranches that often see more decent mares than a hoity toity show stud.
That being said, many Morganites are cutting back on breeding due to the slow market for middle-of-the road horses and difficulty finding hay. On the chat lists I’m on I see time and time again: “I want to make sure they have talents that sssure they never end up in an auction. My broodmares are trained to ride & drive in case they need a new career. Not one I’ve bred/sold has ended up at an auction.” Most folk in my breed seem to care deeply for their horses and make conscious decisions towards their lifelong wellfare. Very satisfying to be associated with such good people.
Considering our previous discussions about popularity & numbers of various breeds, maybe I am glad my beloved Morgans are scarce on the ground and not 1) produced by the herd for the auction market, or 2) fantasy horses (ie GVs or Fs) that every BYB wants a piece of.
Oooooooo, nationals start tomorrow and I can’t get there til Tues!!!!!
the-farmer’s-wife (biting her nails until she’s on that plane)
For the sake of discussion about injecting joints.
Knowing a vet who does a ton of them, it gives you a HUGE appreciation for footing. As one article put it- the most important 3 inches your horse will set foot on.
All horses over time, no matter the discipline, will suffer some deterioration of the synovial fluids in the joint. This can be treated, but it will still be there.
At what point do any of us say ‘that’s enough’ and let the horse retire comfortably in the field to a life of leisure?
One guy here, a ‘trainer’ and judge in his chosen field, has a horse who has had soundness issues since he was 4. He trained the horse and keeps him injected (all his joints) so his beginner students can show on him. The horse is 17-ish and is dead F-ing lame. Selfish Asshat in my opinion, but Asshat just the same.
Another H/J barn, has a bunch of horses who are all injected to keep them sound enough to train, let alone show.
Dressage barn- same thing. It seemed to be the fad of the week.
In our own barn, if they are sound enough to work, they do. If not we aren’t going to inject them full of cortizone, H/A or Depo to make them comfy so we can take them in the ring to collect a ribbon for the effort.
This guy gets team ropers (both ends), H/J, dressage horses, race horses, barrel racers (from pee wee’s on up) and just about everything in between.
Friesianluv-
I’m sure people are buying these horses thinking that they will just climb on board and something magical and mystical will happen.
I would like to see the look on their face when something magical and mystical sets off the horse and they end up not so gracefully on the ground.
They will then gallop off into the sunset, transformed into a wonderful rider on a beautifully trained and obedient mount.
They will be transformed all right, by a big ol’ whap up side the head of reality.
Horsepoor: I don’t particularly think that people will mind if I stop reading this blog; however, I find that if Fugly is EITHER genuinely unable to tell the difference between calling people on their poor choices and insulting their ethnicity or religion, OR if she feels that insulting someone based on ehtnicity or religion is an acceptable behavior, I suddenly no longer have any particular respect for her opinions on any other subject.
If she is the sort of person whose views I care to spend my time reading, she will realize that as owner of this blog–the hostess, so to speak–she has a responsibility to speak up and tell Larry that he is out of line–just as I would expect anyone I know to do if someone used an ethnic slur while I guest in their home. If she does not feel that it’s necessary to say anything, then I’ll know that she is not someone I care to associate with.
So I’ll be checking back to see if Fugly has, after having a chance to reflect on the issue, decided to speak out against Larry’s behavior. If she responds again that it’s no big deal, then I’ll know I don’t have to bother reading the site anymore.
Think about it: If someone had described those crummy trailers we were looking at the other day as “nigger rigged,” would that be okay? Would people be saying that it’s a compliment to the ingenuity of the African-American people and they should take it as a compliment? I doubt it. Obviously, people here have varying political views, but not condoning racial slurs is something that I feel should be a no-brainer on any site or forum not specifically hosted by the KKK.
Professordog this is a BLOG. Political corectness is not part of a BLOG. If you do not like the language, or the comments of the posters, no one is holding a gun to your head to read this blog or any of the comments.
Either grow thicker skin or do not read the blog. No one singled you out and called you a name. GET OVER IT. You are making a fool of your self.
I’m finding it very surprising that everyone else here is perfectly okay with the racist atmosphere. Yeah, I really don’t think I’ll be here after today, but I do want to give Fugly, our hostess, another chance to be heard.
I personally think that some words can be insulting, yes, depending on how they are used. But I also know that people should try to understand the context of what was said before getting upset. I don’t think anyone was personally set on insulting ANYONE (or even a single ethnic group). I’m not necessarily defending anyone or condoning anything, just stating how I would take it if someone said a word that involved MY ethnicity or background. It would really depend on HOW it was used. There are words that, in themselves, are insulting, yet used another way, are not.
I think all this “new” political correctness is a bunch of hogwash. I’m from the old school where none of those words and phrases are meant in a derogatory way to insult anyone. People must realize the CONTEXT in which something is said, or realize things can be said in a somewhat traditional manner that is not insulting. I think people take things wayyy too seriously and read into things that are just not there. A sense of humor is required to just let things roll off your back. This is a horse blog, for goodness sakes, with people from all sorts of backgrounds commenting from all over the world. Everyone is different. No one is going to influence anyone else’s manners or feelings on anything except horses. (Hopefully!)
What if we all found out that FHOTD was of a particular political persuasion, and a bunch of us were of another? Does that mean that her advice and humor on her blog all of a sudden isn’t appealing to us? Nothing changes. She isn’t asking us to pay her for her entertainment – we’re just an audience to her opinions. She is a knowledgeable horsewoman with a lot of good advice and humor, and we enjoy it or we wouldn’t be here in the first place.
There are a lot of ignorant people in this world. Some things are just best left unsaid and we need to move on.
Yes well I have to say I have been dumped by every breed of horse I have ever ridden (but not by every horse thankyou, though it may say more about my riding skills than about horses) from a kid riding Exmoor and Welsh ponies, through Polo ponies, Appaloosas, QH, TB’s, Warmbloods and yep Friesians.
The only breed of horse that doesn’t buck (including the ones with legs attached to rockers) are the ones with heads attached sticks, and even they can get tangled up in your legs when you jump them.
“I think all this “new” political correctness is a bunch of hogwash. I’m from the old school where none of those words and phrases are meant in a derogatory way to insult anyone.”
Just had to see that again. I guess they don’t teach much history at the old school.
Talk about half breeds, you need to check out dreamhorse #861298, talk about heinz 57. I didn’t know you could have some many different breeds in one horse and mighty attractive at that. A American Warm Blood Society is it’s registry that has accepted it and you can purchase this fine “fillie” for a reduced price of only $5,000.00
Poor Tulle! I can’t believe some asshat would do that to her.
PD,
so you know, I’m pretty much with you on this one. AS I said before, 99% of the time there is absolutely no reason to use a slur; English is a big language! But I’ll stick around and call people on it when I see it.
Back to ponies (whew!) … The lesson pony I ride, the one I got dumped from on Monday, has a big cresty neck. I suspect he was gelded late, given some of his “attitude,” and he certainly has a tendency to get fat. But I have to admit that when I’m on him, I *love* to push his crest back and forth with my hand. His mane is roached, so I can just grab hold of his crest and wiggle it… It’s a fidgety thing, and he doesn’t mind.
Hm, that sounds sort of obscene, if one substitutes another, um, HUMAN body part for the mane crest….
FW, one of these years I’ll be a customer for a Morgan horse. A friend of mine is leasing one to do dressage and two-phases, and would like me to come try him out in a lesson.
Ann–Yeah, that’s an area where there’s legitimate room to agree to disagree. Personally, I don’t care to associate with people who don’t have the decency to act as though they’re ashamed of being bigots, but it’s reasonable to feel differently.
On the issue of actually *being* a bigot, I don’t see any room for civilized people to agree to disagree.
Farmer’s wife – don’t be to jealous but I will be at the show tomorrow evening. Don’t worry I will say hello to all the upheaded hotties for yeah!
Professordog said: “I’m finding it very surprising that everyone else here is perfectly okay with the racist atmosphere. Yeah, I really don’t think I’ll be here after today, but I do want to give Fugly, our hostess, another chance to be heard.”
I do not think any of us here are racist in the least nor do we beieve there is a racist atmosphere here. I believe that the ONLY person who feels there is a racist atmosphere here is you. Yes Professordog I have been through SEVERAL trainings on ethnic sensitivity, because of working for the government everyone had to. Most of the time I find it silly that people will be offended by a cardboard hula girl cutout at a luau party, or a comment about haggling over a price and calling it jewing someone down. In fact the person who made the comment was using the comment as something he was proud of. Why in the world would you be offended by that? I am not offended when people bash on my horse breed of choice, or when people talk about fat people (I am fat), how is that different?
My question is did the word “Jew” physically hurt anyone…No…to the ones that are bitching and moaning “you hurt my feelings”… are you so..childish that you are going to let some word on a screen send you into a panic attacked where you must cleanse yourself of the dirtiness of the word???
No. You are the same people who bitch about the horse owners who have brains smaller than a moths’…don’t you think that offends them????…let me guess you are going to say “how can it offend them, they don’t see it”…well my friend it doesn’t matter, if you are going to worry your self to death about a couple people saying words such as nigger, Jew, nazi, spic and others of such…you really need to get a life.
People are out there starving and dying, do you care, no you are way to fucking worried about a word..which mind you is NOT talking about ANYONE … I hope you feel real high and happy now, you did the right thing, instead of helping someone who is too fucking stupid to help themselves you are bitching about the word “Jew”…
It wouldn’t bother me if you were talking about someone actually being called a Jew…its NOT being used to hurt anyone…its being used to describe a situation of talking someone down off of their price. Last time I checked “jewing” someone down was not a slur..like stated before gypping is just as “bad”, but millions of people use that… its America sweet heart… nobody is perfect nor does anyone give a good god damn…just look around, because if anyone honestly cared, this world wouldn’t be so fucked up.
(ps) i’m sure non of that really makes any sense, nor does it have to do with the subject…it just flowed…a bad flow, but hey it was a flow…
Well guys, just got back from an auction, and if it was black and hairy it sold, even if it’s a mini. Everything else was dirt cheap.
Oh, and I saw the thing I hate most at the auction. Lady had a MFT colt, nice conformation, really a cutie, shivering in a corner of a stall, and alternating between hollering his head off and trying to melt through the boards. Talked to the ‘lovely owner’ seems he was supposed to be a palomino, and since he isn’t, she pulled him away from his mom that afternoon, and threw him on a trailer. Now he was supposed to be 4 months old, so I guess he was old enough to wean. Of course she hadn’t paid to reg him, but she did have the paperwork.
He comes through the ring, and the best bid they can get is $50, from a meat dealer. So of course, since I need a stud colt like a hole in the head, I bought him. $120. *sigh*
But he is really put together well, and after some quick brain surgery will make me a nice trail horse someday.
Because I *NEED* another horse, LOL!
DRNFH- “In fact the person who made the comment was using the comment as something he was proud of”
It’s not so called “proud” it’s just what comes natural, it is sort of like the whole thing where some people like PB+Bananas…it’s just who you are and what’s “right” to you…
Honestly I have NEVER gave a second thought to the word “jewing”…it honestly comes natural…it’s the same thing as the PB+Bananas…sorta
Professordog: If you are making the common “I am going to take my toys and go home and NEVER come to this forum again” threat, I can only say don’t let the door hit you. You are not Elvis and no one cares if you leave the building. This blog, as with all places online, will go merrily along whether or not an individual poster chooses to continue to visit.
*CHEERS*
FHOTD, you are a saint.
…oh wait…does that offend anyone…lol
By the way, it is the policy of this blog not to edit or delete any comments whatsoever. I have not edited nor deleted posts that have bashed on me personally. We have absolute freedom of speech here – if you aren’t comfortable with that, this is not the place for you. You may, of course, have the same freedom to respond to any comments you find offensive or disagreeable, and you will not be edited or deleted either.
Fugly–my position is that as the person in charge you have a responsibility to speak out when behavior is unacceptable, even if you choose not to remove comments. Clearly, you feel differently. Since I no longer have respect for you as a person, I will no longer be reading your blog. It’s not a matter of expecting people to beg me to stay–I just wanted to give you a chance to re-think your position before I wrote you off. Since you’ve indicated that after thinking again, you still hold the same view, I will no longer be reading.
I’m not in charge of anything. I choose not to be. I am only responsible for my own comments; everybody else is responsible for theirs. If you were looking for a moderated board/blog, this is not one of those.
For reference, here are pictures of actual fjord crosses:
FjordXdraft: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/Jesse-1.jpg
FjordXarab: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/Delling.jpg
FjordXpaint: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/Bandit.jpg
FjordXappaloosa: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/FlekeBonn.jpg
FjordXQH: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j294/monsterpony/Blakken.jpg
Again, I didn’t breed any of these horses and they are all gelded.
Honestly. Larry was already called out on what he said. If you don’t like it, fine, call him out too (which you’ve already done prodigiously) and then get over yourself.
No, it’s not a pretty term. It did not come about to describe someone’s financial prowess, it came about because people felt that Jews were attempting to cheat them out of money or product. So just because you’ve never thought of the origin of the term doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t consider it now.
Also, using wording like that and calling out people who do stupid shit are very different. People don’t choose what race, religion, or nationality they were born into. They do have the choice to not act like complete selfish morons. When people choose to over-breed, under-train, and have non-existant herdsmanship, then they earn any derision that comes their way.
PD, if you don’t like it here, don’t the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Stop yer damn whining, it’s offending me LOL. FHOTD does not have any obligation to any of us. This is a free country and this is a blog not a place of worship or employment or a government agency.
My gosh, one last comment….
The only one responsible for your feelings is YOU.
You can chose to be offended, or not-nothing anyone of us can do about that one way or the other.
If you find the comments here offensive, you must lead a very sheltered life. I have been called everything at one time or another, but encroaching maturity *wink* affords me the wisdom to “blow it off” as it were. What real harm is done my words on a screen? The words of those I interact with in real life carry much more significance than any posted here. And that is how it should be-this is FHOTD’s blog and she is free to post or moderate as she choses. Very good for us she does not censor any comment!
Really, you need to get out more, and broaden your horizons a bit. If that doesn’t work, you are also free to go start your own blog (like I have, based on FHOTD’s fine example) where you can delete anything that offends your sensibilities
I would also like to say that classifying “jewing down” as a racial slur is silly. By some it could be classified as insensitive or tactless I guess. There was no malice in it and it was not directed at anyone in particular. Yes there are some words that shouldn’t be used at all because they are hateful and wrong. But IMO in order for something to be a slur it is directed at someone and is full of malice. So take a chill pill and move on I say.
“My opinion? Any slaughter of horses is unacceptable. It provides an easy way out for irresponsible owners and one that puts cash in their hands for their bad behavior. Slaughter rewards bad ownership.â€
But, owning, buying fuggly horses, or rescuing fuggly horses doesn’t. Sigh. Here’s a thought. All your beloved unsound space wasting fugglies, not only steel homes from quality horses, but by owning them you provide and easy way out for irresponsible owners and one that puts cash in their hands for their bad behavior. Anyone who has ever bought a fuggly is guilty of rewarding bad “ownership.â€
Never mind the oh so glaring flawed logic “It provides an easy way out for irresponsible owners.†Your punishing them some how. Here’s a clue, just like you don’t get, they don’t get. Not having place to sell their horses won’t stop them from breeding more and what the horses get fulfill your greater purpose by starving to death.
Even if it were humane, it would still be bad news for horses for this reason. It allows someone to breed a ton of, as my friend very descriptively calls them, shitters ( and ending slaughter has done such a remarkable job in solving this problem, lets give another ten years) , and still walk away with a profit ( can’t enough of how you’re “rationalization†changes to suit your particular needs. Not so long ago you were posting on how these people don’t make any more, can’t afford to feed etc, etcs. Now their making fortunes Oh my!), particularly if all said shitters have done is eat grass and received no vet, farrier, or other care. (yep they’re rolling in the do, but who’s really getting punished here for irresponsible behavior, cus it certainly ain’t their owners.)
Equine euthanasia/disposal is expensive, assuming you can’t simply shoot them in the head and bury them with a backhoe on your own property. Like it or not, the government is going to have to pick up the tab for low income horse owners. Yes, your taxes may go up. Yes, this sucks, but it’s no different from having to pick up the tab for all the dingbats that keep popping out children they can’t afford
I think you should convince ani-slaughter movement to use this argument as their number one campaign speech. SAVE THE HORSE: PAY MORE TAXES JUST SO WE CAN KILL THEM. Okay genius, doesn’t this provides an easy way out for irresponsible owners Breed away ladies and gentlemen. You can’t sell them at auctions and make oh so huge profit that has you rolling in dough from your own stupidity. But if you get in over your head, we’ll pay to have them euthanized which sounds so much more humane than “kill†at every ones expense but yours.
Policing the borders to make sure American horses don’t go to Mexico: Look tax payers YOU CAN SAVE THE HORSES BY PREVENTING THEM FROM GOING TO MEXICO: ALL REQUIRED IS MORE OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO KEEP THE HORSES IN THAT YOU THEN GET PAY TO EUTHANIZE AND DISPOSE OF. I STRUGGLE TO CARE FOR MY OWN HORSE BUT HEY LETS RAISE TAXES SO I CARE FOR SOMEONE ELSES!
We have an awful lot of vets marching around out there with the “moral” belief that they won’t euth a healthy horse. Where to begin? First this assumes your “morale†ground of no horses should be slaughtered is more moral or a better moral, or the right more; ie has more value than the vet’s moral. Second based on this logic, wouldn’t be more moral for fuggly horse owners to euth their only sound sometimes to barely rideable nags to make so healthy horses can have a home. Well, that’s cute. “ You said it, I didn’t.â€
Did you want to take them home and feed them? This kind of logic makes me want to beat my head against the wall. Can anybody point the irony of the statement above. Pro slaughter has been screaming these very words since the slaughter ban. Pro slaughter has maintained the industry would work itself out. Surprise it’s not, but it’s okay, the fault of vetinary medicine for being so irresponsible! As long as the average citizen doesn’t have access to the drugs to do it, I believe that the government needs to mandate some vets in every part of the country do euthanasia as requested on absolutely anything. There are going to be train wrecks. There are going to be the breeders who, oopsy, have 72 weanlings and lost their job and can’t feed them. Not really ironic, that now that slaughter has been banned and the industry hasn’t worked itself out you use pro slaughter arguments to support euthanization. If private rescues can pick up some of that mess, great, but if they can’t, euthanasia beats the hell out of starvation or slaughter. Anybody who thinks there is some third solution is dreaming. “Any one who thinks that the American people are going foot millions of dollars into a horse euthanization program is dream.†As long as we have “freedom,” people are going to mass produce animals that they cannot afford to feed, and that are so poor in quality that no one else wants to feed them either. “Your logic just amazing. Earlier argument implied that not having slaughter stop rewarding these people and thus they’d stop breeding.†Having to make some disappear is a reality. Euthanasia is much kinder than slaughter. Really. Have you have seen a horse euthanized. I have.
\No, we can’t legislate responsibility but we can sure as hell publicly embarrass the people like Mr. Big Rancher and hurt their business, and it is time we did that. This will only work in your dreams.
I mean, look at this dun mare. She is not a shitter. She has a big old leg but she’s sound and I’d bet any kind of money she came from a good breeder…once upon a time. Yet, someone dumped her off to die.
When I go to the Woodburn, Oregon auction, I see these nice Saddlebreds getting dumped. OK, who’s the asshole? They dumped this mare and foal a few months ago. Mare was just panic stricken, it was awful. Damn near flipped over in the parking lot on the concrete trying to get loaded. They actually DID go to a home and not slaughter but they got lucky. There can’t be that many Saddlebred breeders in the Portland/Salem area, so tell me, somebody knows, who is responsible for this? You are.
Something to think about.
1. Horses are both a commodity and pet.
2. Horses are still livestock, regardless of how much we love them.
3. Everyone believes there opinion is the right and just. However anyone who has ever read Aristotle should take away one thing. Human reason is flawed. People can reason and rationalize anything. People are emotional first and rational second. The ani slaughter movement is not fueled by rational or logical thought. (This is not to say one is better over the other, it simply is what it is.) And this fact polarized people to one side or the other, while very little real learning takes place.
4. There is an underlying assumption that slaughter itself is bad or immoral.
5. Just because your morale high ground excludes slaughter, doesn’t make slaughter itself wrong.
a. Slaughter is an ugly but necessary part of the horse industry
b. Not only does it “dispose†of unwanted horses. More importantly it stabilizes the horse industry by setting a base value for horses. Euthanization will never do this. Never
c. The value of horses will continue to decline. Take into consideration “normal†over population which was roughly 50,000( pro slaughter #… anti slaughter had the population over a hundred thousand)) horses being slaughtered a year (over the average lifespan of a horse which is thirty years that which all needs homes and using a modest estimate of the number of horses slaughtered that means in the next thirty years the horse industry needs to generate 1.5 million new homes for these equines)
d. American middle class is shrinking for two reason: Jobs are being relocated oversees, but more significantly and dangerous most of the jobs created to replace these lost jobs are low paying retail. Food service cashier, etc. If this trend continues the proverbial shit will hit the fan with in the next ten years and the American economy will collapse. In the mean time, many horse owners who were able to afford to show or simply just own horses are facing a crisis. They need to cut back or get out, but their equines no longer have a base value, which has lead to horses being abandoned at auctions and even turned loose, while true rescues are full to the brim with horses. In the mean time lower incomes means fewer horses.
e. Gas prices have forced many people to “rethink†their spending. Horse shows are seeing a decline in attendance. Combined with lower income, this spells a crisis for the horse industry as we know it. Showing has been fueled for many years by middle class but as incomes drop and the cost of showing rises, competition will begin to become a rich mans sport once again.
f. Most people don’t recognized the extent of the precipice the horse industry is facing. It is on the edge and about to go over. Fuggly’s purposed euthanization program will never happen, but banning of export of horses for slaughter, is a reality. There will be ways around it, but the bottle neck will create such a large number of horse and stands to be the straw the breaks the proverbial camels back.
Finally to provoke thoughts: If euthanization were to become standard, is it:
More moral to euthanize a healthy horse than it is for an un-healthy horse to have a good home.
Is it more moral to euthanize a gelding than a pregnant mare.
Should healthy foals be euthanized.
How would you feel if some one regulated your horse management, breeding and otherwise?
Considering over population, too few homes and the availability of unwanted horses, should horse owners have the right to keep unsound, ill, blind or otherwise unhealthy horses or should these horses be euthanized?
Do healthy horses have more “valueâ€(not monetary but as in right to live) than horses who are not?
in Norway, home of the fjord, it is ILLEGAL by LAW to cross the fjord with any other breed… in fact, most cross breeding is illegal in Norway.
breaks my heart to see “you people” (other countries) take all our hard work of purifying this breed (and others, like the icelandic) and throw it down the drain by crossing them with others to make a quick buck.
all because they are “cute” and because crossing with a fjord guarantees a foal that is dun…
I am really frustrated about the slaughter situation. Mostly because I don’t think anyone has bothered to come up with a better plan. Given some recent situations, I have a few thoughts.
1) It’s not really rescue…..
IMHO, the concept of rescue has been grossly contorted into simply “saving” horses from slaughter. I think that in this time of low funds and high need, rescues need to be prepared to stop taking on horses that cannot be rehabbed and rehomed. The ONLY exception I have to this idea is the geriatric horse. I think that if someone wants to give an oldy but goody a nice pasture life to live out their last days after YEARS of service, that’s fine. But I am TIRED of seeing people try to pawn off young-middle aged horses who are mean and dangerous or have such severe injuries that they will never be ridden/used again.
It’s a waste of money IMHO. If someone wants to “rescue” them from the kill pen, then the next step should be euthanasia. Don’t spend THOUSANDS hauling them cross country and giving them to a rescue. PUT THEM DOWN.
It frees up rescues to take on true hard-luck cases where the horse could actually be rehabbed and rehomed.
“Saving” horses that have no chance of rehab is wasting time and space for horses that COULD be. With limited resource, I believe the time has come to choose your battles. You are not going to save them all. So “rescue” the ones that have more than a snowball’s chance in hell.
2) Euthanasia. I have been flamed for this before, but I’ll say it again. If I were in a position where I HAD to get rid of my horses, I would not be standing around trying to get high dollar for them. If I were in a position where I could no longer afford to keep them, I would be GIVING them away if I could find homes. And if I could not find a FREE HOME for them, I would euthanize. Yes, I love my horses. But I would not take them to a sale just to recoup a few bucks or forgo their care because I couldn’t afford it. If it came down to it, I would euth before I would ever send them down the line like that.
I know someone personally who, when faced with a horse he just doesn’t want anymore, will take it to a sale, try to get 100 bucks out of it. WHY? Why? Horse is lame? Horse is mean? Horse is not a good candidate for sale? EUTHANIZE! You cheap rotten jerk. Spend the 100 bucks and do it. Or better yet, how about a bullet?
It just seems sick and wrong to send ‘em down the line like that for $100 and make it someone else’s problem.
3) For the anti-slaughter group: Put your money where your mouth is. You want all these horses to be cared for? I hope you are busy buying them up and putting them down or rehabbing them.
I definitely think that slaughter has issues. I definitely think that it could be made better. But since it’s now illegal here, you really think it’s better for the horses in Mexico?
Show me the money, if you will. What are you DOING to help besides yapping about the cruelty of slaughter?
I’m not in a position to take on any horses. I make small donations to reputable rescues when I can. I try to help organize action when it makes sense. But frankly, about as far as I can go with some of these neglected, lame, psycho horses is to offer to pay for the euth. I don’t think it’s fair to expect ANY rescue to take them on. (per my first point.)
wow, you people need to know how to spell if you are going to write big responses for 1 !!!
and 2. the person who has that fjord X, bought the mare pregnant from the frickin auction cuz no-one else (all the so-called, selfless people) wouldnt bid on her. when she got her home, voila she’s pregnant.hmmm, who’s fault is it now?? Maybe the ASSHOLE that took their pregnant mare to a frickin auction to “dispose” of her in the first place! So, yes she may be asking too much money,but maybe the amount reflects the home it gets right!!! they have loved this filly,cared for her, and want to get her a home now…..maybe she isnt your topnotch lookin horse,but holy shit, know the whole story before just spewing shit around (like calling people fuckwits)!!!! As for the yard, the filly isnt IN that part of it, may not be perfect but check your own yards first hey. I see all over where people who breed so-called quality horses ask too much, saying the horse will be this and will be that. what a load of crap!!
OH and BTW…..I have a haflinger QH X that people offer me big bucks for all the time, (she is one of those, stay forever horses)kids and adults can ride her…….she is gorgeous, so they can be bred and make nice horses.
I would like to see an ugly haflinger QH X
This whole site is absolutely appalling. Seriously people, get a life. If you spent this much time on something worthwhile you may actually accomplish something in your lifetime instead of sitting back and bitching about it. I can’t even imagine the amount of time all of you bloody whiners have spent surfing horse sites looking for animals you don’t approve of or sale ads that inspire you to comment on how much of an idiot the owner is. Is there really nothing better for you to do out there? I didn’t know about this site until just recently and after doing some reading I just think it is stupid. Plain and simple. Horse slaughter will continue all over the world, deal with it, and the video you posted of the horses being slaughtered…ever been to a plant that processes beef and pork? I don’t see you trying to close those plants down. You really think the cows just stand still for the bolt gun? Or the 12-guage if the bolt gun misses? How about the pigs that get the ‘Stun Gun’ before being strung up and having their throats cut. The world is an ugly place but I’m sure you enjoy your Filet Mignon and Bacon…don’t you. Think about what you blog on here before you actually publish it because most of you just look like idiots.
This is where the fiord cross is advertised now, no picture.*****
1/2 FJORD FILLY DOB May 27 2006. Personal circumstances force sale. Halter broke, ties, loads, etc. Scar on front right leg, sound. Open to offers****
It costs just as much to feed a good registered horse of value as it does a grade horse that won’t have much resale value. But remember, that owner is probably just as proud of that grade horse as you are of your registered horse.