First of all, yes, I have finished moving. I have learned many valuable lessons, such as: At 2 AM, when you bring a rescue horse home from the auction, do not borrow a bale of the neighbor’s straw for bedding so that poor Pookie can lie down and relax after the traumatic auction. Pookie could have lied down and relaxed in the grass and it would not have then resulted in having to remove twelve, twelve, twelve !$&$!& wheelbarrows full of straw from one box stall when you move and have to leave the barn swept spotlessly clean! So, my back is trashed and my car is still full of most of my stuff and the end result is, you are not getting a great, well thought out and complicated blog post today.
I do however, have an interesting topic for you all to discuss – sparked somewhat by the comments yesterday and somewhat by conversations I’ve had lately with other horsepeople. My question today is: Where do you draw the line between research/what the vet says, and your own years of experience?
It’s interesting because there are things we were taught 30 years ago that have very clearly been debunked. Example: Letting hot horses drink. The truth is, they really can drink all the want, although lukewarm water is better than cold. The first time I saw someone let a hot horse drink its fill, I almost fell over, but the truth is – the research is right. I’ve let many, many hot horses drink gallons and gallons of water now, and nobody has ever gotten sick.
Then, there are things where the veterinary wisdom has changed but, based upon my experience, I just won’t change. I don’t care how many studies you do, I know what I feel is the right thing to do. Two examples:
1. Many vets these days say you don’t need to wrap both legs (i.e. both fronts) if you are wrapping one for support purposes. I don’t care what the vets say. I was taught that you have to support the non-injured side because it’s taking more strain because of the injured side, and I’m always going to wrap both no matter what any vet or research study says.
2. I hate this trend – these days the vets will tell you it’s OK to let a colicky horse lie down and rest. Oh, HELL NO. I’m very old school on this. You walk, walk, walk, walk until they show NO sign of pain. You walk all damn night if you have to. You do not let them lie down, ever. They can run 15,042 research studies and I don’t care. I have never (knocking wood as I say this) lost a horse to colic, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to change something that works. I had someone on a message board tell me a horse at their barn died of exhaustion from being walked for colic. OH COME ON NOW! IT DID NOT. Where do you people even come up with this crazy shit? It probably had a heart murmur and the colic pushed it into a heart attack. It did not die of exhaustion from being hand walked.
OK, so let’s discuss: Which elements of equine health care/health management have changed that you agree with? Has anything changed that you disagree with, and if so, are you still doing what has worked for you all along?
(I will pop in today’s Craigslist gem…you can own this mare for the low low price of just $400…WITH PAPERS since I’m sure you’ll be wanting to breed her!).
Ad copy: “Clue needs a new home soon! My other mare beats her up daily & I’m afraid for her. She has bent cannons, but is ridable. 15H 900lbs & very sweet natured horse. I have had to lock her in a small pen to keep her safe & I hate to do that. Also she is reg. with APHA & I have her papers to go with her! Conclusive & trple Image on top, War leo & Bobcats Super Stud on bottom. Might concider a trade in part or equal value $400 OBO.
Add a comment | Comments RSS feed | Trackback
The one thing I can’t change is I was always taught to soak my beat pulp before feeding. I know lots of recent research has been done saying it no longer has to be soaked, but I will continue to soak mine.
The topic is vet advice versus horse-owner beliefs, right? Here’s mine: CORTICOSTEROID INJECTIONS into the joints. They are a big money-maker for some vets and intended to replace rest and time off from work (two things that don’t put any money in the vet’s pocket). However, they are implicated as a cause of LAMINITIS and I believe should be used only as a last resort, certainly not to rush a horse back to work. I’m not putting the knock on all vets by any means. But I think a good equine practitioner will strongly advise against casual use of corticosteroids and owners should understand they are not a kind of Equine WD 40.
Perfect example, for your question:
I recently had a big conversation with my vet–who informed me he no longer wants his clients to administer Banamine IM.
What!?!
No, he wants it given *IV* because new studies say it is too caustic to be injected into a muscle.
Erm, excuse moi?
Is there a saline push, after the IV Banamine? Uh, no.
Okay, so ‘splain me this–how is something so very caustic that it supposedly cause necroses at IM sites okay to just shoot on into the jugular, with no dilution?
Oh, and, yeah, I prefer the vet to do most of the work–I’ve never studied for his/her job. But, I’ve seen many, many a horse saved from colic by a good shot of Banamine administered in a timely manner by an observant owner, and tons of handwalking/longeing.
An IM injection is a piece of cake. I think even most of the horse idiots out there can give it a decent try.
I shudder to think what might happen if your average moron starts making attempts at drawing up a dose and putting it in the horse’s jugular, though!
yikes!
I’ve seen even VETS, graduates of UC Davis no less, struggle with a jugular injection. Not very good vets, mind ya, but I’d venture a guess that even the worst vet is probably more experienced than the majority of horse folks when it comes to injections.
Vanity–yes! soak the beet pulp, and then I dump that water and rinse the pulp again, because I don’t want them to have all the extra sugar that the molasses adds. I can’t get beet pulp without molasses here. Yet.
After reading your blog for a few months, I finally feel like I should comment.
EVERY HORSE IS DIFFERANT! Every situation is differant. To say things like
EVERY horse needs to be blanketed at -20C
EVERY hoof absess needs to be busted open
EVERY colicing horse has to be walked
is close minded. If you own horses, you need to know the animal. I have an Arabian mare who shivers if it gets under 40 degrees F. I also have a TB off the track who refused to walk out of the barn in the morning if it’s windy. The rest of my children are naked most of the time…
I had a vet chide me for using fly sheets. I asked his reason. I have seen some horses develop funky skin from certain types of fly sheets, and wondered if that might be why he didn’t like them. He shrugged, and said “they have tails.”
no blankets here, the climate is pretty temperate and with few exceptions it just doesn’t get nasty enough. I leave the stalls open all day and they do get shut in at night though. The stalls are not completely shut in though, just a roof and boards. We are enclosing the stalls a bit more this winter though.
My mustang mare looks like a wooly bear starting the first part of October, she would overheat if I tried to blanket her!
I keep them both barefoot, they have great hooves and don’t need shoes. As far as colic, hasn’t happened (knocking) since I had horses as a kid. And back then, we walked them. Not sure what I would do nowdays, depends on how the horse is doing I think.
I keep my horses here at home so I am constantly going out to check on them, at least 3-4 times a day.
I also keep them guessing on feed times. Mornings usually between 6a-9a, and evenings between 5p-8p. I don’t want them having a fit because I am 30 minutes *late* with the food. No supplements, although we’ll see how my 22 year old does this winter. She is the easiest keeper in the world, and any grain just causes her to get even fatter than she already is. I feed very good quality grass hay and during the winter I feed more.
Oh- and as for shoes. I wish I could get Icesha (my main horse- percheron/arab) to go barefoot… but I am a mounted policeman, and her feet get worn down too quickly.
NO ROUND BALES… One word:
Botulism
BlueWillow- You’re going to probably hate me for this one.
We recently repo’d an Arab stallion we had sold. He is well known for gas colicing, 10cc of Banimine and his ‘release button’ activates he’s fine and looking for food and attention fromt the ladies.
Well sure as shit he coliced one morning as I am feeding, checking waters, getting ready for work, packing my lunch etc. I called DH cause he is working for the vet as his tech. I tell him Studly is not eating.
“What do you mean?”
Like the phrase ‘He is NOT eating.’ has two or more meanings! DUH! He’s NOT eating. Everyone elses head is down snarfing up their food but him. Did he poop yadda, yadda, yadda. We go through all the vitals, the run down of him, his stall his poop, etc. I go get the Banamine.
Now I have seen IV’s done a gazillion, bazillion times and figure I will try it this one time.
Well Studly is a very patient horse and for that I am grateful to no end. I stuck him about 6 times before finally giving up and going IM.
I put him out in the pasture and made sure he had water, called the neighbor to check on him later in the morning, etc. and by the time I was ready to leave for work he was fine.
On the other side of that coin, using a different vet, my DH’s ‘glassy assed’ mare (see previous post on that) coliced about 3 years ago. It was a hard colic.
He gave her 10 cc’s of Banamine, called the vet to be on standby. About 11 pm and after no improvements he came out, oiled her up and gave her the once over determined it was sand colic, gave us the bill and left.
We stayed out with her all night, pulled the truck around back so we could take turns sleeping in 30 minute shifts. Walked her as needed, Banamine every few hours to relieve the pain, etc. stood her on the concrete because she wouldn’t try to lay down while on it. She was ‘ok’ but not ‘normal’ still by morning.
She pulled through and about a month later coliced just as hard again. Another all nighter, enemas, oil, Banamine, etc. and she pulled through again.
This time the vet said it was ulcers from the Banamine from last months bout! We were trying to help her and making things worse. Oh thrill! Does anyone else know that feeling? It sucks, to say the least.
Well we bought some expensive cinamon smelling powder, mixture goo and a few other things to ‘cure her ulcers’ and by now she dropped a ton of weight and looked nothing like a proper horse should. She instead looked more like something we dragged home from the local auction for a couple hundred bucks, if that.
Althought the Banamine knocked the edge off and walking helped her digestive tract move things along, she was still in pain, (Sometimes a lot of pain) and now we had another issue to deal with.
Banamine certainly isn’t a ‘cure all’, and it can provide some relief, but each horse and each case is different, and each needs to be treated accordingly.
She is fine and had about 2 years off, and for a while we had to trim her feet while she layed down, because she didn’t have the strength to stand up long enough.
She would also lay on her back with her feet in the air. It was funny to see, but it gave her some relief in a weird way.
She was doing this in the front pasture and people driving by would stop and bang on our door to make sure we knew what she was doing and that, and that she was ok. They often thought she was dead, even though every dead horse I have seen is usually on its side.
I think there are alot of things even the ‘EXPERTS’ don’t agree on and things like my TB can NEVER have Sweet feed, but my Arab/TWH Fugly boy could eat it and never be crazy or flighty or whatnot. Just different creatures.
As for the IV banamine question…I am not expert, but IM meds sit in the muscle and the blood has to come thru and get little bits at a time until it is OUT Of the muscle. So it is like sitting in a wet diaper.
The IV it goes IN…to their BLOOD stream where the receptors start using it and it is diluted by HUGE volumes of blood which is mostly PLASMA (liquid). I am not sure the half-life of Banamine, but in theory the meds could stay in muscle fibers for several hours or even days. Just my thoughts.
Do not, NOT, NOT!!! give Banamine IM. It can cause a huge necrotizing abcess that comes on very quickly. Banamine given orally is just as effective as IM, without the risk.
IV as we all know usually works much faster, whereas IM takes at least 15-20 minutes to show any signs of working. Pennicillian is caustic if given IV, which is why it is given IM and also why you draw back to make sure you are not in a vein.
I have seen the effects of Pennicillian in a vein firsthand and it is frightening for anyone.
My friend gave her horse a shot and drew the plunger on the syringe back, no blood, everything went in ok. She removed the needle and turned to reload for dose 2, of the loading dose.
As she turned away her horse (who I was holding) leaned back, stiffened and fell over. He started flailing all four legs and thrashing wildly for a few seconds. When he did get up he instantly broke out in a full dripping sweat.
We had no time to even react, just keep clear of his legs while he was down on the cement aisle way.
She immediately called the vet, who reassured her, if the horse was up he would be fine.
He did come right out and never charged her for it, and explained there could have been a drop or two in the needle and she could have gone through a vein- hence no blood when she drew back.
As she injected everything was ok, but upon pulling the needle out, the drop or two going into the vein caused the reaction.
It still scared the shit out of us both and especially her since her gelding was around 15 and she had raised him from a foal. I was around 18-20 at the time and had seen a lot, but not anything like that yet.
The vet said the best thing was that we had him out of his stall- pipe corral- and he couldn’t get his legs stuck in the rails as he thrashed on the ground. He had even admitted he has had it happen to him, it is not uncommon, since you cannot see inside and if you went through any veins on the way in.
Someone mentioned common sense and I think that is the most important thing here. My horse is kept in good condition year-round, which means that he is exercised regularly. Therefore, I have him clipped in the winter to lessen the time it takes for him to dry off after a workout. Given that he shivers if he gets wet in 65 degree weather, he gets a neck rug and a blanket in the winter. The ponies in the barn and some of the others who grow a nice coat and don’t do anything to work up a sweat only get blankets when it’s really cold, and the rest of them get blankets as they need them, and according to whether they are clipped or not.
This ability to look at each horse and meet its individual needs is just good horse management. We have all sorts of breeds, all ages, and all activity levels in my barn, and each one gets what s/he needs to be healthy and content.
When my horse is cold, he drops weight within days. He’s never had much extra padding, so he can be ribby very quickly. Why would I ignore the evidence of my own eyes to meet some preconceived notion of what a horse should be or do or how I should keep it? He’s not a wild horse, or a tough old boot of a pony, or a nice, big hairy draft- he’s a TB. He’s also a show horse and I ask a lot of him- if keeping him stalled half the time (he goes out with his buddy for 12 hours every day), blanketed, shod, and well-fed on granola and good hay keeps him fit, sound, and mentally and physically healthy and able to do what I ask of him, why wouldn’t I do all of that?
Also, I have seen first hand the benefits of Venice Turpentine on soles that need to toughen up a bit to hang onto shoes during wet weather. There are very few “miracle” products, but if smearing sticky goop on my horse’s soles improves them so much my farrier notices the next time out, again- why would I say- “no, I don’t use hoof products. They’re all b.s.”?? It’s all about common sense…
Sorry, but walking a horse with colic all night, does nothing but make the owner feel like they’re accomplishing something. It does virtually nothing for the horse, and it can be detrimental. As long as the horse is not rolling, its better to let them lie quietly.
But if their rolling, walk, walk walk, ten let them lie down, if they roll, right back up and keep walking.
Roanrider- I had the vet tell me, with Studly boy, to go ahead and give it IM, that would be fine.
His words- If you haven’t done IV and you are not comfortable doing IV, IM is fine, it will just take a little longer to ‘kick in’.
Never seen anything like you described, but then anything CAN hapen on any given day. I guess it depends on the horse and the circumstances.
Usually when it is least expected it will happen to the wrong people- the ones who care and worry about their horse(s)!
“barefoot trims”
It seems to be the fashion now to say that “Any horse can go barefoot if you have someone who knows what they’re doing trim them. Get a certified NH barefoot trimmer!!”
Uhm, no thanks.
Several years ago we had some friends of ours, who were quite involved in Parelli, natural horsemanship, etc(which I have no problem with), take care of our horses while we were on vacation for 6 weeks. As mentioned, I don’t have a big problem with the concept of NH, I do however have a problem with their “Removing the shoes will cure any lameness” mentality.
Within the week we’d left, they had taken Shady’s shoes off; yep, just pulled them off themselves, without bothering to ask, or even inform me.
This poor boy had corrective shoes on all four feet, and extra padding in the front. He has terribley sensitive feet, and had recently had some majour issues with this extreme sensitivity and proness(is that a word?) to injury, hence the special shoeing.
This shoeing was also intended to spread pressure more evenly over his hooves, which his strangely conformed front legs had been localising it to a sore area.
Going on. . .
Naturally, he was dead lame, apparently, he could hardly even move. Yet of course, “He just needs to be seen by a ‘certified trimmer’”
Three weeks after being seen by said “trimmer”, he was increasingly worse.
But “Oh, all horses are sore at first, just give it time.”
What the hell?
When we returned, the barn manager had taken her own initiative to put corrective shoes(minus pads) back on his front feet.
He was still quite sore, though.
Once we had him suited back up in his ‘protective gear’, his lameness dissapeared after about 2 months.
The friends we had taking care of them hadn’t even told us what they’d done until we got back.
Goodness.
I’d like to point out that although it took a couple years of gradually acclimising his hooves to the change, he’s now doing just fine and dandy with plain old 00 aluminium shoes(steel is too heavy), on his front feet only, as he has been for 2-3 years.
Hm.
My rant is done.
My “natural hoof trimmer” swears by Venice Turpentine. She will NOT shoe my horses and that’s fine. If I decide my horses need shoes, I will go to someone else. She won’t dictate to me what I should do with my horses….
anyway, getting back to the venice turpentine. It absolutely is a sticky, gooey messy substance, a real bitch to deal with. But it does work.
I am not a chemist, a farrier or a vet, but I think what happens is that it might create callous on the sole, and thereby toughen the sole up. I got the stuff on my hands and had to use that mechanic’s soap to wash it off. I missed some that got under my rings and eventually it started to burn.
I have been told to be very careful not to get it on the bulb of the heel as it will burn the soft tissue.
The stuff did help my tenderfooted mare.
We indulge in a lot of benign neglect here – ie if the horse is righting itself the way nature intended, the leave it alone! Even maggots in a wound can be a positive as they eat (only) the necrotic tissue and help the healing process.
Colic – I have had tummy aches and I know that if I lie down or crouch then the pain eases so I let the horse do what it wants. I generally watch for half an hour, if they haven’t either broken wind or dropped manure or improveed in that time, I call the vet, we discuss the particular horse and then she guides me through over the phone. Generally we give bute to ease the guts, and wait for another half hour for the bute to work.
We’ve lost one horse to colic – a 34 year old that probably perforated his gut with a stick or something like that – which was just awful, but other than that, they’ve all recovered really well.
Rugging – it should come as no shock that food keeps a horse warm – particularly lucerne hay (alfalfa) as it creates heat in the gut from the digestion process. So a biscuit of hay last thing in the evening can really help the horse stay warm all night – the reasearch is at http://www.mitavite.com.au/mitavite06/PDF/Nutritional%20Information%20PDF/Vet%20notes/Winter%20Feeding.pdf (go to http://www.mitavite.com.au then ‘nutritional information’, ‘vet notes’, ‘winter feeding’ if the link doesn’t work) – very interesting stuff.
We rug arthritic horses and those with movement issues as running is a natural response in the horse to increase its body temperature and there are some of the horses here either shouldn’t or can’t run like that.
Lucerne hay can be very high in phyto-oestrogens so it really does cause behavioural changes in some horses, mares in particular. Clover is the same.
If you want shiney hooves, graze the horse in rich pasture – the constant rubbing of the grass against the hooves creates a strong, shiney surface that is just gorgeous.
Here’s a cat in the pigeons remark – we don’t bandage at all unless we are draining an abcess (using lintex) or there is damage to more than muscle. Last time I bandaged was a young horse who put a small hole in his tendon sheath. We certainly didn’t bandage the other leg, and we also didn’t take him out of his paddock and herd. He was completely unstressed as he was in his home environment, and he healed perfectly other than avery fine scar the length of my little finger.
I think we stress horses enormously in our belief that what we are doing is the ‘right’ thing – eg we insist they walk around when they are sick, or we take them out of their paddocks when they are injured so that they then spend days and days pacing, alone, in pain, stressed beyond belief away from their herd.
My opinion is that the only thing you shouldn’t do with an injured horse in its home paddock is give it bute unless you know the underlying cause of the problem. If it is lame with something like a tendon pull then bute will mask the pain and the horse will gallop as normal and continually stress the injury – allow the pain to warn the horse to slow down. Other than that, leave ‘em where they are happy and treat there!
Oh and have a vet who is sympathetic to that and isn’t surprised by it
We sedate and do generals in their home paddocks with all their mates ‘helping’ too. Sounds crazy doesn’t it? But it works! We observe of course, until the horse recovers, and shoo off any horse that is helping too much, but they wake up with their herd around them and they return to life as normal with no stress.
wildcat said…
AHHHH…Colic
I heard a good one to use on a horse with colic.
Load them up in a horse trailer and take them for a spin. Have you ever hauled a horse that didn’t crap right when you load him or her up?
Now (knock on wood)I have not experianced colic in my 15yrs of horse ownership, lucky me-but this sounds like a good idea.
The only drawback I can see is, the horse may go down in the trailer.
We had a chronic colicker once, and he’s start to colic, we’d get the vet out, she’d tube him, decide he needed to go in, and we’d put him on the trailer for the haul to the clinic. By the time we got there, he had pooped and looked fine. After a few times of that happening, he’d start showing symptoms, and we’d skip calling the vet until we loaded him up and took him for a spin. It worked often enough for mild colics.
However, we later found tapeworms to be the cause of the colics. We never found them on testing, it just took one on the vets glove during an exam to find it.
In the UK we were always taught to walk a colicky horse too.
Many of us don’t now, if a horse is thrashing around violently, then he has already got a twist, rupture, intersusseption or whatever, the pain from these conditions is what MAKES them thrash about.
Horse roll quite happily everyday of their lives and never get a twisted gut.
We don’t use Banamine , we use Buscopan , it works incredibly quickly for most minor to moderate cases and the horse gets almost instant relief, the surgical colics will not be helped with walking, or pain meds (which may mask further deterioration), they need to get to a hospital asap.
Colic surgery has advanced so far that most cases survive IF they get to surgery in time.
We need to rug our horses in winter (except for fat hairy native ponies), wearing a rug doesn’t stop my broodmares from growing a thick winter coat but it does keep them dry and stop them losing condition, our winters are usually wet and muddy, on dry cold days we sometimes take rugs off so they can get some sun on their backs, modern rugs are much better than what we all grew up with, light weight, breathable etc. Ours come in at night after New years day, then go out full time again in April.
They have haylage in the field if the grass is poor but once they come in at night they only have it in the stable, the in foal mares are fed extra three months prior to foaling, the others get a maintenance diet, all have adlib haylage, never left without something to chew and digest … we don’t get colic or stable vices.
Hoof quality definitely comes from within but a little ‘gloss’ for showing is just fine, we use soya oil, the same thing we use in feeds, does the job as well as anything.
We bandage both legs if there is a tendon injury, but not if it’s a wound.. personally I don’t bandage wounds at all.
Abcsesses are drained, mainly for the instant pain relief but also because we don’t want a secondary injury, ie to the coronet or heel caused by the pus finding it’s own way out.
So, for the most part our horses are as natural as we can sensibly make them, adverse conditions will dictate that sometimes we need to help them out a bit.
Of course there are people who still keep their horses stabled most of the time and some are just not lucky enough to have all year turnout.
I don’t go for all that “natural” crap. Domestic horses aren’t “natural” in the least! (Look at Preswalksi’s horse. Now look at a 17h TB. . . see what I mean? Barely recognizable as the same animal.)
My horses are in at night in winter, in during the day in summer. They wear light blankets below 25 degrees, heavy ones below 0.
They eat grain, wear fly masks and thank the baby Jesus for fly spray every day from May to October.
I will never, ever believe that polo wraps can offer any scrap of “support” to a horse.
But there isn’t a single case study out there proving that they do, so this is more personal opinion, at this point.
The concept that some strip of fabric is going to support such enormous weight is ludicrous, to me. Unless you wrapped the leg super, super tight. Which we know is not a wonderful idea.
I ride in polos. To warm the tendon sheath and cut down on possible interference issues when doing lateral movements. But that is the ONLY sort of thing I feel polo wraps are good for.
Sometimes, the owner knows best, sometimes the horse does.
Case in point…rescue takes in a 19 year old unregistered stallion. I say, sure, we can take him. So he’s gelded and shipped cross country from beautiful warm Malibu to the cornfields of Illinois. Interestingly, the first time the vet did a full dental on him, she said he had the mouth of a 30-year old. Over the next 7 years we owned him, he never shagged a great coat the way my native midwestern yaks do.
So I took pity on my California boy, went out and bought him a nice blankie. He looked wonderful the first time we put it on. The next day, he looked wonderful sans blanket. The blanket was on the stall floor, with a steaming pile of horse apples on it. Tighten blanket, try again. Same results.
It got so we only put the blanket on him when the temps dropped below zero. Sometimes we’d win and the blanket would stay on, but mostly not. He was a blanket Houdini. After a time, blanket repair became tedious (and what did Einstein say about the definition of insanity?) and we declared him the victor.
“MEMCWHIT” could you explain about the warm vs cold rinsing of a hot horse?
ROANHORSE I have noticed that horses that are terminally ill develop an odor. My vet and I call it the death smell. If I can smell it, I am sure the other horses can. Maybe survival instinct says to stay away from the one the mountain lion/wolf is going to get.
Our horses are outside in the pastures 24/7 year round. They have never been blanketed and I don’t plan on blanketing them. They grow good winter coats. We have never had any illness from this. Our temps in the winter can get as low as -40F (we are in Alberta Canada). The horses do perfectly fine. They have a shelter that they can get out of the wind and storms if they want to.
My horses would go absolutely nuts being cooped up in a barn. They are pasture animals that want to move around, play and run when they please…not stand in a stall being bored.
This has worked perfectly for my horses and I will continue to raise them this way.
All of my horses are barefoot. They have never gone lame from being barefoot or had any problems that were not a “bad farrier” related problem. I also don’t smear the goo on the hooves. Several farriers over the years have told me that once you start using that stuff…you have to continue using it. I believe that healthy hooves come from a good diet and genetics.
I have only had a horse colic once (thankfully). I walked them until they were back to normal. I’ve heard many people say now to just leave them alone to lay down or do whatever they want. No thank you….I will keep them walking.
At our clinic when we get colic calls, we tell people that if your horse will lay quietly and not roll, then Do Not walk them. If they are trying to roll, or if you think you won’t be able to get them up, then walk them, but stop if they seem tired. I’ve talked to way too many people who tell me “I’ve been walking for 12 hours and now she is shaky and falling over.” I try to explain to them that when a horse is already not feeling well, walking them to exhaustion just makes our job harder. Getting a tired and painful horse up is much more difficult than getting a painful horse up. Also, you should always give Banamine, after speaking to you Dr, not Bute for a colic. Banamine is for GI pain, Bute is for muscle pain. You wouldn’t take aspirin for a stomach ache would you? As for leg wrapping, I definately wrap both. I have a huge fear of support limb laminitis as well as tendon injuries caused by loading on that off leg. I have a mare now with a completely reconstructed front foot and I keep all four legs wrapped to help support her tendons.
I’m a believer in feeding horses that are not on pasture several feedings a day. We don’t have pastures out there, just sandy lot turnouts, so this keeps them happy and occupied. I’m lucky enough to be able to feed my horses that way. I am a fairly new horse owner (4 years), but I’ve been around horses for most of my life (over 40 years). Most owners out here, in SoCal, feed their horses only twice a day. Many owners have to go off to work, so they feed in that AM, before leaving, then in the PM, when they return home.
Because I’m now “retired” I have the luxury of being at home all day. I figure, since horses are grazing animals, and eat very often during the course of the day, they are constantly producing stomach acids. So, in the AM, I weigh-out each horse’s (I have two) hay ration. I only feed Bermuda grass hay, and I give them only about a cup of alfalfa-timothy pellets to put their Psyllium/supplements in; I live in the high desert and we have to be careful of sand-colic.
Anyway, I set-out each horse’s daily ration, and they get that ration in 4-5 servings a day. They are constantly munching.
My new mare is an eating machine. She was always looking for food, and if she finished her hay, she would eat her manure. I bought a hay feeder called “The Grazer”, and it now takes her 3 hours to eat one flake of hay. She’s kept very busy during the course of the day.
Oh..yes….I must add…my horses came in from MN and WI. They grow nice long shaggy winter coats. I don’t blanket in the winter. Last winter in SoCal, we had unusually cold temps…18 degrees during the night….whereas it’s normally 30-35 degrees at night. Winter is our rainy season, although we had a record dry winter last year. I still don’t blanket my horses. They are just not turned-out in the rain; they are housed in run-in stalls.
arcadia_horses said:
“…food keeps a horse warm – particularly lucerne hay (alfalfa) as it creates heat in the gut from the digestion process.”
Yes, I believe the correct term for this is that the fermentation process in the horse’s gut is an exothermic reaction… i.e. the fermentation gives off heat, helping keep the horse warm.
OK, chem-major pedantic.
My vet taught me to feel the horse’s ears. Hold the ear cupped in your hand for a minute. If the ears are warm the horse is warm. If they are cold, feed and blanket. I do this just before I go to bed.
I live in Maine… All my horses are blanketed with a medium weight blanket, during turnout (6am-5pm with run in shed) once we get below 30 degrees. I have two that I blanket in their stalls if it is going to be close too or below 0… One is an older mare that I got in Feb. 2007 and she was on the skinny side. I bought her a light stable blanket and gave her free choice hay, so she could burn less calories staying warm and gain some weight. I’m letting her put on a few extra pounds before winter, so hopefully she wont need it this year. The other App mare doesn’t grow winter hair, so I blanket her in the stall if it is supposed to be below 0. The others are not blanketed in the stall, free choice hay and a good amount of bedding seem ideal for them in the cold months. Everyone is brought in and the barn is locked up for the night.
I use hoof grease if it’s dry in the summer and winter. It was just something I was taught and their feet stay good, using it when moisture is low.
I always walk a horse if they are acting colicy. Also use Gas-X, rather than Banamine. Gas-X works great with horses! Banamine helps with pain, but it kind of covers up symptoms too.
I use ointment on fresh cuts, so that the flies can’t get at them. Once they scab, I leave them alone.
wildcat said…
“I heard a good one to use on a horse with colic.
Load them up in a horse trailer and take them for a spin. Have you ever hauled a horse that didn’t crap right when you load him or her up?
Now (knock on wood)I have not experianced colic in my 15yrs of horse ownership, lucky me-but this sounds like a good idea.
The only drawback I can see is, the horse may go down in the trailer.”
When I was 5 years old, we had a race horse that colicked. He was my favorite horse and they tried this trailer idea because the vet suggested it. He did go down in the trailer and I can still remember being the horrified 5 year old my mother asked to stay in the house with my cousin while they tried to figure out how to get him back up and out of the trailer. They got him out, but he died shortly after. I will never try that idea…
I’ve come to a happy medium with colic. I do not let a horse lie down, but if they want to stand quietly, I let them. I only walk them if they are trying to lie down. I also like the Linda TJ stomache rub. Actually, I don’t know if she started it or what, a friend taught it to me. Take a towel and have one person hold an end on each side of the horse. Start at the girth, lift up and slide back. Do it over and over. I have used this on a number of colics and it seems to quiet the horse a bit (providing you are able to do this without getting fallen/rolled on). I don’t think it cures anything but I think it feels better to the horse and relaxes them.
I am otherwise lucky to have a good vet. The vets I don’t like are the ones that don’t listen when you tell them “well, that horse has never been in a stall, so floating in there won’t work.” Or, “that horse needs to be untied before sticking him with a needle.”
K….about barefoot.com.
I have a few friends that are big fans of that site, and they are almost religious fanatics about a horse go barefoot, under ANY circumstances.
My horses were always barefoot, living in the Midwest, but when we moved to SoCal, in the high desert, I found the trails here extremely sandy and rocky..sharp, loose rocks….hate it. At the time when we moved here, my horses were barefoot. After riding in very sandy, rocky terrain, my gelding’s frogs became so worn down from the abrasive sand acting like an emery board, he pulled-up sore. My farrier told me I’ll have to shoe him to protect his frogs, so I did.
When I told my barefoot.com friends about it, they desperately tried to talk me out of shoes and told me I should use hoof boots. Well, I tried them before shoeing him, and putting them on took more out of my back, than putting shoes on him.
So, in answer to your question, according the barefoot.com, barefoot is the ONLY way to go. IMHO, I think you need to assess the situation, and use common sense, and do what you need to do for YOUR situation. There are no absolutes. Ever since I put shoes on my horse, he’s been just fine.
Well, I live in the Phoenix, AZ area. I think everyone has PRETTY much covered things. I know there are a few more in my head wanting to come out, but they are stuck behind the many layers of sleep fog, I guess. To cover things that have been brought up already:
Blanketing: I have show horses. Phoenix show season is September-April. If I clip off their hair, I damned well better be prepared to blanket them. As well as change blankets 2-3 times daily.
Feeding: I feed alfalfa morning, bermuda grass mid-day & night, Strongid C2x, and a mixture of 10% protein and 14% protein Strategy. All weighed. I vary this in the summer because my colt sweats, drinks and pees too much on alfalfa. He goes to all grass and 14% protein Strategy.
Shoeing – To each horse his own. Both of my horses are only 2, so they are not in full work. I won’t shoe them until they are. I have a suspicion that my filly will go fine barefoot full time, but my colt will need shoes asap.
Colic – I walk depending on the circumstances of the horse. On mild cases, I just have to pretend to load a horse in the trailer and they have a BM. It’s the beginning of something good, anyway.
Hoof treatment – I ascribe to the thought that if I wouldn’t put it on myself, why would I put it on my horse. I will use lotion type products rubbed into the coronary band area, as well as the frog. If the horse seems to need some moisture.
Hoof abscess – I’ve not had one of my own. Where I work, we generally poultice & soak to draw it out. I have not seen them have the vet or farrier dig for it.
OH, I know something that bugs me… It’s not necessarily research vs. opinion or custom, but it still bugs me. I hear a lot of we turn out the yearlings (or insert age here) to be horses and don’t start training until (insert age here). Well, I have to say that sucks! As a trainer that specializes in ground work, it is possible to have the yearlings/weanlings/two year olds turned out with a herd AND train them to halter, stand tied, lift feet, be medicated, move off of pressure, longe (depending on age) and all basic respect. I swear almost every time I’ve run across the turned out to be a horse horse, it’s actually an ass!
Sorry… but about wrapping…
I will probably ALWAYS wrap both legs. It just makes sense to me.
Peruhorselover said…
“My new mare is an eating machine. She was always looking for food, and if she finished her hay, she would eat her manure. I bought a hay feeder called “The Grazer”, and it now takes her 3 hours to eat one flake of hay. She’s kept very busy during the course of the day.”
Where can I get it?!
I live in NZ and the climate is somewhat changeable. The horses in work all get blankets, and some are feed grain three times a day. Any horses that are clipped or feel the cold are given two rugs. The young horses go without.
The biggest problem we have is mud so blankets keep your horse clean as well as warm which saves a lot of time when you have to go ride. Our horses are out all the time because we dont have any stables.
One of our big problems is mud rash but I solved that by adding a teaspoon of copper to the water trough every 3 weeks or as needed and that cleared it right up without having to remove scabs or put salves on it.
exesblueeyeddevil said…
I am gonna catch hell but I shoe, supplement, hoof goo in dry weather, blanket and stall my horse! He gets snow pads in winter too. But I show all year and my boy has to be sleek and working all year round.
You are NOT alone! lol I live in the desert in CA. It gets to 110+ degrees in the summer and freezes in the winter. My horses don’t get time to adjust! It was 100 degree last week and tonight its supposed to be 35. So yea… My horses ARE shown and get worked extensivly and often. My show friesians and black percherons are inside in the back during the day in the summer with misters and fans and get to be turned out all evening and night into the morning. In the winter, they get turned out everyday from morning to dinner time. They get blanketed because we get CRAZY winds. Horses coats are GREAT for insulating, but once that wind kicks up, it ruffles their coats and that heat is gone. Now… not all my horses get blanketed and stalled. For instance… my boy Thor… during the summer, the minute it gets down to 70 at night, he starts growing a coat. xD Like he’s saying, “I don’t know about all you guys, but I’m gonna shart growin’ this shit now!” lol
Its all opinion really…and I call “BS” on the people saying stalled horses get sick more often and come up with my complications… I’m not one to brag… but my horses are sound and healthy all year round unless some freak occurance happens *knocks on wood*
Blanket only for the old guy who is hard to get weight on and free choice hay all winter. It’s Minnesota and cold.
No walking for colic except fall gas colic pretty easy to spot.
I’ve had one colic in 25 years with horses on turn out 24/7.
Feed more and better hay not grain.
If someone else may be feeding the horse switch to straight triple cleaned oats – pretty much too bulky for colic.
Shoes depending on.
No wraps because they can do more harm than good. Even polos can cause a bow if heat builds up.
Possibly bells if the horse is green enough to clip himself.
The horses will adapt to which ever way you load them.
They can not have too much room in a trailer – no slants for over 15 handers or size 80 blanket.
No ties in the trailer – lead rope but just run through the ring.
They can’t have too much hay when trailering.
I still pat them when they are good even though rubbing is suppose to be better.
Never lead with the bottom ring on the halter on the one on the side.
Chains can have a place in training -over the nose and around the noseband but only for an ill mannered horse that you didn’t raise until it understand that running over the handler or bolting is unacceptable. Actually a crop works better for the first but you have to be more coordinated.
No hoof creams, no baths, no bridle path trims, definitely no ear clips , no mane pulls or tail pulls.
This topic is perfect as just today my giant holsteiner decided to rip his hock open and we dicovered a giant abcess on the other holsteiner. It was a medical nightmare today.
First off, with the gash on my horse: I personally thought the vet was retarded for trying to stitch that area even if they were “pressure relieving stitches” because even she, herself, admitted they would probably pop or rip out within two days.
So what is wrong with vigilant cleaning and a decent wrapping of rolled cotton and vetwrap which is what we will be doing anyway once the stitches pop?
She also did a really shitty wrapping job:
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/BeauAndClem/CharlieLeg2.jpg
which is being re-done tomorrow or Wednesday when my regular vet comes out to check it.
Ugh. New, young vets. Avoid them. I will always stick to that motto.
And as for the abcess, there are a MILLION ways to treat them, but my tried and true method involves soaking 2-3 times a day in hot water with peroxide & epsom salt, packing with a sugar/peroxide poultice and rolled cotton, and wrapping the hoof with diapers (or puppy wee-wee pads work amazingly well too), vetwrap, and duct tape. Lots and lots of duct tape.
I have a million little tricks and things I know just work. I am wary of new trends in anything until I know they work as well, especially in horses.
I am really REALLY picky about turn-out. I DO NOT believe in horses being out all the time. Period.
I believe in structured turn out with supervision. You cannot convinve me otherwise. It’s just one of my things. It helps prevent injury and accident and to me is the safest way to go.
I even more do not ever believe in letting horses go in and out as they please. They lose all respect for doorways and it creates nightmares. It’s a saftey issue for me. They are big, I am not, I need control.
Yadda yadda, I could go on forever.
Guilty as charged
I supplement six days a week, however NO GRAIN.
I blanket (with a light/med weight) during the winter (and yes I live in So Cal, but the temps are all over the place)
Two of the mares are over 20 years of age.
The three year old is a tobanio paint with a lot of chrome, that is self preservation in grooming.
All three mares require different shoeing, one has a full set, the other only has fronts, and the other is barefoot. Each horse is different, and you can’t play all or nothing with this group.
They are pampered Princesses that reside in 12×24 stalls outside covered pipes that get over 24 cubic feet of shavings and pellets every week.
One does get get hoof goop once a week.
oh for crying out loud:
FYI, the word “schmuck” is Yiddish for “penis” or “dick.” A schmuck is a nasty person, not an idiot. I was one of those people who purchased a nerved horse. And yes, she was not very sound. She was however the best little horse I ever had. She’d have given me a thousand miles if I didn’t have to put her down to arthrits.
My big thing is farriers that insist that horses need shoes all year. My ponies are only shod if I am conditioning them for an endurance ride or doing an endurance ride. In the spring I do a big part of their conditioning barefoot. The shoes go on only if I am riding in rocky terrain. I ride so much though that I wear hoof down faster than they can grow. I’ve never had any problems with this. Diet and dry footing will do wonders for a horse’s foot. Looking at alternatives to shoes…but they are pricy and I need to find a farrier that will support these options and know what they are doing.
The other thing I do that gets stares from my vet is corn oil on my old gelding in the winter. My old 20+ gelding gets a cup of corn oil in his beet pulp and all the bulky grass hay he wants. He gets a blanket when the temperature drops below (including wind-chill). He has a lean-to for the wind and rain that he uses. Corn oil will not make a horse hot…no sugars in it. It does give him extra calories in addition to the heat generated in his lower gut by the fermentaion of hay.
Turkmen used to feed their horses a mixture of mutton fat, egg yolks, and barley when they were getting ready for a raid or to play Buzcashi (that game they play in Afgahnistan) They’d load the livers of their horses with quick reserves that could be converted to glycogen and water. The day before a game or raid they would just let the horse eat a little hay. Horses didn’t tie up (i.e exertional Rhabomyolisis) Ask you vet to explain that one!
Bute for colic – just what my vet advises with mild colics, particularly in the older horses. It works, and it is easy to obtain so I am all in favour!
Bute irritates the stomach and can cause ulcers, which is why it shouldn’t be used for long-term lameness pain relief… I agree with Banamine for GI stuff. On giving injectable Banamine orally (off-label use BTW), apparently it burns the hell out of the horse’s mouth like pepper spray. I’ve seen horses rub their muzzle hard against the ground after administration, apparently to relieve the burn/pain somehow… if you must, maybe it could be mixed in something yummy (maple syrup, Kool-Aid mix…?) and squirted way back in the throat to avoid the mouth/tounge as much as possible…? Although I believe that if you are giving prescription meds on a regular basis, you should take the time to learn and perfect IV administration.
forthefutureofthebreed-
LOL what a small world! I’m on Grey Hills, but I have friends on Albite. Goodness, that’ soo funny! Less than a mile apart and only met on the internet… lol.
I believe that stalled horses need water buckets and not just automatic waterers. We hang water buckets right next to the 50lb salt blocks. The horses work those blocks over pretty good and we know they are drinking plenty of water out of the buckets.
You just don’t know how much water they are drinking if they only have automatic waterers.
Bute long term – we’ve ended up giving it three days on, four days off with horses nearing the end of their lives, giving them one last summer while they are still cheerfully living life (ie determined and cheerful but not even slightly sound when not on the bute).
My first horse came to me very thin and it turned out his whole gut had been stripped by an overdose of bute, so it is not something I use carelessly
He had to be euthanased about six months after diagnosis – his immune system decided his intestines were a problem and set out to destroy them so I have had a lot of experience with bad colic and with bute toxicity.
Any other Aussies, is it just me, or are the other colic drugs mentioned here S4 – and not available without the vet coming out to administer them?
I agree with mathilde on the shoe issue. A few years ago I moved several hours away from the one farrier I had ever used…and I used him for 10 years. I had a hard time finding a competent farrier. The one I did find messed up all my horses(all in shoes too), so I started to do some research. I found some wonderful info about natural hoof care. I got myself some books and started trimming my own horses. Before I began my first trim I took before pics, This summer I took some after pics and compaired them. It’s amazing how much they have improved. After several months the heels of all of my ponies widened. Now when they walk they land heel first, not toe first. They are able to reach further and move smoother. None of them are at all tender footed, not even on gravel or pavement. I have been trimming my horses for over a year now, and even do some for friends…fee of course. Check out this site for more info. The results will blow you away! http://www.hoofrehab.com/
HoosierHorseGirl,
To find out the content of your hay, you need to take core samples from several different bales. Your vet will tell you where to send the samples. Usually to a vet school. I live in the northwest and the soil here is deficient in selenium and vitamin E. I feed NorthWest Supplement which compensates for the deficiency.
>>How about this one. I heard once a long, long time ago, that if you hose off a hot horse, the blood will rush to their feet and founder them.
I thought long and hard over that one, and never thought hosing a too hot horse was a great idea for common sense reasons, but has anyone else heard anything like that?
< <
If there were any truth to that, there would be a lot of foundered polo ponies. They come out of a chukkar blazing hot, often white with foam, and we rip off the tack and are hosing down every inch of them within 3 minutes. BTW, I have actually never seen a foundered polo pony…not once in all of these years.
Re: blankets. I blanket but it’s more about keeping them dry than keeping them warm. As others have observed, just because you provide a shelter does not mean they use it. It is unlikely they will die from shivering, but it makes me feel bad to watch so waterproof blankets it is. Also, darn it, blankets keep them cleaner and I simply do not like to spend my entire life grooming. Horse coats do not self maintain – they are not like cats. I am not sure if we have bred weaknesses like tendencies toward rain rot into them unwittingly (good question – do mustangs get rain rot?) – I just know that if my horses are not groomed, they get scurfy and I can’t stand that, so even the retirees are blanketed and groomed regularly.
Re: Nightmare – no, just because they are thrashing doesn’t mean they have a twist. I had a school horse who was about 20 at the time colic so bad she went down thrashing and I had to beat her to her feet with a whip. Pretty? No. But it worked. We dragged that mare around the arena for a few hours – one person at her head, one behind her with a whip to threaten. My vet came out, gave her a ton of banamine, oiled her, etc. When she stopped trying to go down, that was the first time I let her stand still and rest. I slept outside her stall and she never tried to go down again. She was fine in the morning. FYI, she lived to be 31. Worst colic I have ever seen but I surely do not regret the course of action I took. Walking probably DOES cause them more pain than lying down, but I don’t care. If they have an impaction, is it more likely to budge if they are standing still or if they are walking and everything is moving and stretching? Common sense – make them move. Who cares if they hurt if it means they will be alive tomorrow and not dead? Just my philosophy and one I won’t be changing anytime soon.
Re: Wrapping. It depends on how well you wrap. Absolutely, bad wrapping will do more harm than good! And as was also mentioned, not all vets are A+ leg wrappers. Standing wraps and quilts do provide support if wrapped properly and snugly. I highly recommend the “no bows” type of quilts if you at all suspect you are not a fabulous wrapper. Trainers, take some time to teach your students to wrap. It really is a lost art that needs to be passed along. I see so much wrapping that is just horrifying.
Re: Barefoot/shoes. Depends on the horse AND depends on your location, what the soil is like, and the footing where you ride. Not everything can go barefoot, I’d argue this with anybody. I do agree that the reason not everything can go barefoot is that we do not make an effort to selectively breed for good feet. The reason mustangs have good feet is that the ones with bad feet die. Show horses can have crappy feet and we cater to them all of their lives and they sire 100 foals with bad feet and no one thinks twice about it.
I had polo ponies in the midwest that never wore shoes, not even to play, but out here on the west coast with all of the rocks in the soil, I do find that front shoes are a necessity for most horses if you are going to ride outside of the arena. (Or Boa boots or similar)
I found a new pin-up for you Fugly, though strictly speaking it isn’t a horse as it’s a zeedonk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/Horsegal98/zedonk.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/
v391/Horsegal98/zedonk.jpg
Sorry first link wouldnt work.
Had a thought about walking a colicky horse causing more pain. As a nurse, we do things all the time that cause more pain but are in the best interest of the patient. The closest example is getting someone up and moving soon after surgery. It is painful, but it gets their GI tract moving (much like walking the colicky horse), and keeps their lungs expanding to get rid of the anesthesia and prevent pneumonia. Sure it hurts, but if it is preventing complications it is for the person or horse’s best interest. The only bad thing is you can’t explain to the horse why you are making them do it.
A couple of more things I thought about……
Anyone else religious about stretching the horse’s front legs forward after girthing up, to remove wrinkles? I’ve had a lot of people look at me strangely when I do that.
I am very particular about the way that the farrier picks up and releases my horses’ feet. I can’t stand to see a farrier pinch their tendon – all mine will pick up any of their feet at a light tap, or, if done in the regular order, simply by the word “up.” I’ve also stopped using several farriers if they drop the hoof when they are done with it. I figure, if my horse has been patiently standing there, you can give them the courtesy of letting them know that they are now allowed to set down their foot. I can’t stand the “THUNK” sound of their dropped hoof hitting the ground.
4-Horses, I ALWAYS stretch my mare. I do it on on the therapy horses I girth when I volunteer, too. We have one arab (a 28 year old) that is incredibly girthy and he needs it. My horse just likes the stretches anyhow. Makes her feel better.
My farrier is careful with their feet, which is a release. My trainer’s ex-farrier and ex-friend plunked them down at one point and his stable girl was like, “Hey, don’t do that. She just stood 20 minutes for you and you aren’t reinforcing good behavior.”
He later ended up tossing a horse around – a young one – and we fired him. Trainer also doesn’t talk to him anymore because he was extremely rude when trainer asked about why he needed to do that.
KizmetRanch said…
forthefutureofthebreed-
LOL what a small world! I’m on Grey Hills, but I have friends on Albite. Goodness, that’ soo funny! Less than a mile apart and only met on the internet… lol.
Stop in when you’re passing by! Have Great Basin give you my number if you need it. Can’t miss my place. Big yellow Peterbilt in the back drive. I’m between Granite and Walker View on the east side.
There are so many schools of thought on this matter, this could be interesting!
Things I think are retarded and wrong:
*The coggins test. I mean, COME ON! So I have a coggins pulled, who’s to say an infected bug won’t bite my horse 2 seconds after the blood was drawn. I go and take said horse to a show or trail ride and infect everyone else. Who cares! I have my yellow piece of paper that says 4 months ago my horse was clear. ~insert eye rolling here~
*A horse only needs farrier work twice a year…Pah-lease! The average DOMESTIC horse should be trimmed every 6-8 weeks. This isn’t some insane conspiracy set forth by farriers and vets around the world. In the wild, horses run over terrian that wear their hooves as fast as they grow, keeping all parts of the hoof (Yes, there is more to a horses foot then just the hoof wall that you see while brushing your over-grown dog that is pushing you over with it’s head) where they should be. They have a sole, frog, bars and the hoofwall. All these things need to be trimmed and maintained because they are in a soft, comfy barn with a grassy (not rocky or sandy) pasture walking around eating all day. Not to mention in the wild they aren’t given suppliments that cause fast hoof growth!! When your horse has a crack that you can wedge a butter knife in is NOT the time to call the vet. It was 6 weeks earlier when the hoof was about 2″ too long and you decided to go on a 2 hour trail ride. And while we’re on the farrier subject…please read carefully and slowly…IT IS NOT THE FARRIERS JOB TO TRAIN YOUR HORSE TO STAND STILL SO HE DOESN’T GET DECAPITATED WHILE CUTTING BACK THE BARS OF YOUR OVER-GROWN HORSE!!! This is YOUR job as a horse owner. ~huff-puff~ Now I’m all lathered up…My husband is a farrier and now we charge and extra fee for me to go out and do what the owner was suppose to do! Oh, and if your excuse for not trimming when needed is that it’s expensive and you can’t afford a farrier…odds are, you can’t afford the horse then because this is part of the ownership! (Before I get jumped, I understand that there are exceptions to every rule…so back off or I’m gonna take my riding crop to you!)
*1 year rabies shot. Did ya’ll know that there is a shot out there that covers 3 years at a time? No? Really? SHOCKING! Could it be that your vet would rather not tell you about that to get a few extra bucks out of you? Google it, folks! It’s out there!
Now onto the stuff that is good:
*Teeth floating. YAY FOR TEETH FLOATING!!! This may not be “new” but it’s the cats meow. I have TBs, a few of em (One that happen to be a money winning barrel racer, too! Sorry, had to put that in there) and they do benefit from having those teeth evened out. Some vets try to debunk it, but I don’t care. I have 1 guy that is done every spring and another that is done every year and a half or so. Much to the chickens dismay, they spill a lot less grain.
I think I could go on and on, but I’ll shut up now.
I had to jump back in about the comment of the farrier training the horse.
I don’t know about you, but if my horse misbehaves for the farrier – I am SO embarrassed. When I moved back to my horses after a 3 year absence, I had two partially wild colts (geldings) who perhaps got trimmed 3x’s a year (they were living on 180 acres with cows). I tried to get it done more often, but trying to get someone to call the farrier / catch the horses / hold the horses wasn’t always possible.
The first time I got their feet done, the youngsters were horrible – Horrible with a capital H. I was mortified, but understood it. I told the farrier that the next time they would behave like my other horses. It took some extra time during the next 6 weeks, but they did behave properly (except one was quite nervous about the “new” person around). I have always felt my horses’ behavior is a direct reflection of me, and I don’t like to be embarrassed.
But, I have to say, my favorite farrier has an unbelievable amount of customers who don’t care / don’t discipline / don’t know. The horses can be unbelievably pushy, rude, sometimes aggressive. It’s amazing how many of them behave properly given a few minutes of ground work and “no nonsense tolerated” attitude. (Scared horses are different than rude horses. Scared horses get a lot more TLC and time.) There was one recently who would push, bite, kick, run over their owner. Farrier held horse and immediately disciplined him. Owner looked on in horror. Farrier said, “There is NO WAY that I can hurt this horse with my hand (or even foot) more than another horse who is showing him dominance. Biting is an AGGRESSIVE behavior, and you may let him bite YOU, but I will not let him bite me.”
People just don’t realize how easily a horse can seriously hurt them.
Rabies Shots:
They say a shot every 3 years for dogs/cats, but do recommend every year for horses. Luckily, I live where I can buy & give my own, so it saves a great deal of money.
I always remember reading (and sorry if this has been mentioned but I lost my place reading between yesterday and today1) that horses should be fed at the SAME TIME EVERY DAY or BAD things happen. But in the 20 yearz I’ve been keeping my own horses its amazing, I can move the feeding time either way 3-4 hours (I do try to be kind) and never once has anyone gotten sick. PO’ed maybe but not sick. And it isn’t like there is a ton (OK any) grass to munch on in between.
Shoes. I only use shoes if necessary and for some horses they will be necessary if you want to ride. Pads too. But others may never ever need shoes.
My horse is the abcess QUEEN. But she is NOT a good patient and digging out an abcess would be like opening up a super highway to infection. They find their own ways out eventually. Digging one out can be fine if the horse is stalled and a good patient but not all horses are going to stand there for you to change the packing every day without sedation. And I for one don’t want to be standing under a sedated and PO’ed 1000+ lb. of horse I’m inflicting pain on. But that’s just me!
Walking CAN tire a horse excessively if colicing. But in the case of a gas colic or impaction (that can be moved) it can help stimulate the gut so you need to use common sense. If the horse wants to walk, walk him. If he’s exhausted let him lie down or just stand there as long as he is quiet. Get them up if they are thrashing around. It is highly unlikely they will ever twist a gut (twisted guts are usually twisted FIRST just like Granma didn’t fall and break her hip, usually she breaks her hip and falls!). But they can certainly hurt themselves and others by thrashing around esp. hitting their heads on the ground or rubbing their eyes in the dirt.
But all the walking in the world won’t fix a torsion or a solid impaction (like a tumor or adhesions) but it can knock out the last reserves of strength a horse may need to survive colic surgery. Or the trip TO colic surgery.
I like buckets too, it is important esp. in hot humid climates to know what a horse is drinking. In the winter too!
Hoof dressing (I use hoof flex) can be helpful in keeping a horse’s feet from getting too dry and developing cracks. In normal areas it is not needed really but in really dry, rocky and sandy areas it can really make a difference. You can put it just on the coronary band or if it is REALLY dry all over and inside. In a pinch bag balm or vaseline intensive care will do and as a bonus your hands will be nice and soft… =)
Not all horses need blankets but many horses do and that is that. If your horse loses weight over the winter or is standing there shivering after a rain or snowstorm you need to blanket with the appropriate weight (it may be just a sheet or it may be a heavy winter blanket, whatever it should be waterproof). Just like my Mom is all bundled up in a parka when it is 60 degrees and I’m still having hot flashes, horses are all different in what weather they can easily handle.
Horses do need to be out all the time, I do believe that. They SHOULD have access to a shed or roof though so they can go stand about in the shade if they want to (or out of the wind) but horses are not built for stalls and controlled turnouts, they are built to be moving and eating all day. Of course you may not have that option and may have to adjust but in an ideal world that should be the goal IMO.
Oh, and farrier said “There is NO WAY that I can hurt this horse with my hand (or even foot) more than another horse who is showing him dominance.”
But, he also said “this horse is perfectly capable of killing or seriously injuring someone.”
I agree with the sweet feed comment. The equivalent of human junk food.
OOH… another thing. Someone mentioned teeth floating. Most should have them floated 2 X per year. It will save your dentist time and will save you money because their mouth will be easier. The farm call will stay the same, but they won’t charge you as much for each visit (at least mine doesn’t).
I love my dentist. She is amazing with the horses and I have known her for 10+ years and never has anyone said anything bad about her. Of course, she loves our herd because everyone stands so nice. My mare in particular makes her happy because she never needs tranqu’ed.
My pet peeve is getting the vet out to do teeth. My vet deals mainly in REPRO. Would YOU ladies go to the gyno to have your teeth done? Probably not. I don’t trust my vet with the teeth. He doesn’t know them well enough.
Horsesandhounds…..
You can get The Grazer at:
http://stallskins.com/grhow.html
I saw it on Horse TV. I forgot to mention that my new mare needs to lose weight. She’s a 15 hh Peruvian and weighs about 1100-1200; she’s a tank. She was on grassy pasture before coming to me. I’ve been riding her just about every day to help get the weight down.
I’m going to buy another Grazer for my gelding. He doesn’t have as much of an eating issue, but if I’m gone for several hours, I can just fill the Grazer up with hay, and leave. It’s been a great help in extending her feeding time, so I can feed less.
BTW…anyone here from Agua Dulce, CA?
I like to think of horse care like people care….
colic – cramping, belly ache…sounds like once a month PMS for me. I personally LOVE to get into a hot tub or pool this time of month. I would imagine if I had a lake/pond available I’d put the horse in it to stand or swim. Otherwise, moving (no matter how much I don’t want to) works best – so walking it is. Always call the vet, too. (although I don’t call the doctor when I’m PMSing)
water when hot – have you ever run and gotten over heated and then drank ice cold water…major cramping, headache and tummy ache. A few swallows of ambient temperature water would be good and then some strolling to cool off and keep loose and then some more water. The guy I’m riding with keeps 55 gallon drums (cut the tops off) full of water for his guys in the stalls and paddocks. His get water (a few gulps) then onto the walker (unmotorized) and once cool, more water – as much as they’d like – and a shower.
blanketing – I’m hit or miss on this one. I had a mare who was REALLY thin skinned and never had much hair. So when we were showing, she usually got blanketed at night when the temps were in the teens and 20s (in NJ and PA). However, we moved to VA and the barn didn’t take the blanket off of her and the day temp reached 70s…major rain rot resulted. She remained super sensitive to the rain rot and would get it frequently afterwards. I moved her from the negligent barn and pretty much stopped blanketing. After a while, she ended up growing a nice thick winter coat and didn’t suffer from rain rot as frequently! We usually brought them in when it rained heavily or was icy to prevent slipping and sliding accidents, but for the most part, they liked hanging out under the trees rather than in a shelter in bad weather.
hoof treatments – I’m not much on the paint on ones, but I have found that Nutritone (farrier’s formula) does wonders for slightly poor feet. It increases growth rate and hardness. (My mare wasn’t nearly as ouchy when she was on it). Oh, and her coat improved and was nice and shiny on it too!
other supplements – only if there is some sort of diet deficiency. Otherwise, waste of money for the most part. However, my aged reining horse (the one with the thin skin and ouchy feet) was a bit arthritic, and a once monthly shot of glucosamine took care of a few creaks and pops.
I still stick with that about letting a hot horse drink. And young horses. 40 years ago, no-one except race trainers broke in anything under three, or jumped 3′ and up on anything under five. Oh, and British bred horses. We breed our own (fab) ponios over here, and in Ireland, I don’t get this new craze about importing warmbloods from Europe.
Oh, and I will also always think of coloureds as common. You still get a few gypsies round here, and they all have scraggy piebalds ponios. I’m not saying that coloureds should be given a hard time, and I wouldn’t pass up on one if it had talent. It’s just that UGLY horses with flute heads can have talent too, and we don’t breed for flute heads, yet even mediocre ridden horses are popping out multicoloured foals. I just don’t see what’s wrong with a nice dark bay. They’re much easier to keep clean, too!
Oh, and turnout! I spent some time with a top eventer recently (you’d recognise the name from H+H) and his horses were only turned out for an hour every other day, if they were lucky! And even then, they were put in tiny fenced paddocks. What’s wrong with the notion of always keeping horses with other horses, and having an acre for each?! I’d never keep my boy anywhere unless there was a good herd environment and acres and acres of turnout. I’ve found it keeps them sane, sound and happy.
“Hoof treatments.”
Ah, but Cornucrescine on the coronet has been used for generations, and makes a MASSIVE difference. I’ve seen proof of it time and time again.
I’m a firm believer in stalling only if necessary. My 4 y/o’s previous owner kept her stalled from daylight to dusk and she was cranky and bitchy and her left hind would swell until she’d been out for about 30 minutes moving around. She was pumping her full of high protein performance feed and oats and stalling her 12 hours a day. Her coat was fucked up and she had bald patches. She was a mess. She’s shiny, muscled and healthy now not to mention much calmer being a pasture horse.
4horses&holding said
Rabies Shots:
They say a shot every 3 years for dogs/cats, but do recommend every year for horses. Luckily, I live where I can buy & give my own, so it saves a great deal of money
That’s my peeve of the day! I asked my vet why my cats and dogs rabies vaccines last for 3 years but I need to revaccinate my horse every year. He told me that the equine rabies vaccines may well be good for three years, but that the pharmaceutical companies don’t want to spend the money on research to find out. They will only lose money if their own research proves the vaccine is good for more than a year…. makes sense to me. GREED! GRRR
In Maine, you must have a VET’s rabies certificate in order to go to shows, other stables, trail rides etc. Many who don’t show/travel with their horses, just do their own for their own peace of mind. But if something should happen you’re SOL because you don’t have a vet certificate.
I’m a basic type of soul.
Water/Hay/Pasture/24/7 turnout with shelters. I live in a colder area, I have blankets, but the only time I’ve ever needed them seems to be the late fall /cold rain/sleet storm times. The rest of the year they go ‘naked’ and seem quite content. These are performance horses. They compete regularly in several disciplines. I keep 2 shod, cuz they need it. One works in boots, the other 2 go barefoot all year.
I prefer the ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ philosphy.
I rarely breed, and usually it’s only if I have an exceptionally darn good reason to, and the resulting foal is meant to be a replacement horse for myself.
I think the stalling issue also depends on the horse. My first mare HATED to be in a stall and would develop all sorts of naughty behaviors (none of the traditional vices, per se, but she was crabby and ansty) even though she was still turned out a good part of the day. When we switched to full pasture board, she was a much happier, saner horse. My gelding now, though, is a different story. He’s out during the day, in at night, but he’s just as excited (if not more) to come in to his stall.
Blanketing & hooves – depends on the horse and your location.
Lucky I’ve never had to deal with colic (major knock on wood) but I would have to play it by ear and judge their behavior to decide if they should be walked or allowed to stand/lie quietly.
I do not wrap legs, as I have never seen it do any conclusive good – and I have seen it do conclusive harm! – but I do use splint & bell boots in training when appropriate to deal with interference and provide additional support. Again, depends on what I’m doing.
Here’s one for ya … sand colic prevention.
I am in FL so it’s always a discussion around here. The popular ideas have been:
1970′s use bran & mineral oil
1980′s use only mineral oil
1990′s use psylium products
2000′s psylium and/or flax seed
Tried and true for me – feed good quality course hay (it moves the sand out – it’s T&A for mine), don’t feed grain so they’ll drop it in the sand and pick it up (use a mat under the buckets) and keep your water nice an clean so they drink plenty and they hay/feed is well hydrated in the gut to move the sand out. Also, it sure helps to actually have something for them to graze on be it grass or hay. People let their fields get grazed down to nothing and of course they pick up sand. Just my opinion but it’s worked for me over all of those decades while the trends have come and gone.
>>Anyone else religious about stretching the horse’s front legs forward after girthing up, to remove wrinkles? I’ve had a lot of people look at me strangely when I do that.< <
I don’t always do it every time, but I do it a lot, particularly on round horses that I have to cinch tightly. I think it’s a really good idea. The last thing you want to do is hop on something that has a wrinkle of skin trapped under the girth. It’s not only kind for the horse to stretch them out, it’s self-preservation!
Branning for sand;
Well, I used to be a religious branner, but according to recent studies, it doesn’t move the sand out worth didly. However, a nice long stemmed grass hay can clear a gut in 3 days. So, no more bran. Instead, free choice grass hay. I do feed Coastal round bales, but my 4 finish one in 4 to 6 days.
Vaccinations;
Still haven’t decided here; some say, every 3 months, some say 2 x/ year or you screw up their immune system.
Stalling;
No, 24/7 pasture, with a run in shelter. No blankets. But I live in Florida, lightening is scarier than the cold,…
Trailering;
No leg wraps. Also, I don’t tie them. Also, I don’t stop for breaks beyond pee, eat, gas up or sleep. They get water then. Every stop adds new cooties, every disload adds more stress. They get bute 1 hr before hitting the road, and Pepcid (see further on), free choice hay, and treats loaded w/ electrolytes. They WILL drink! I put a camera in the trailer, and my hubby, who rode shotgun, watched them. They were like the dogs in the car, going down the road checking everyting out! Ears up, very interested, munching their hay,… He said it was pretty funny. After a two day trip, they unloaded ready to go. No stocking up, no colicky ulcer tummies, and had great attitudes.
My med kit contains not only bute, but benadryl and pepcid. Why should I be the only one who can have acid and gas relief in 30 minutes? They love the berry flavored ones, and 5 will treat a 1500 lb horse just fine. Works like a charm. Before anyone loses their minds about the people meds, this trick came from a vet. And we all know the wonders of Benadryl,…
Everyone is barefoot. Everyone loves it, ‘course, everyone has great feet. No hoof goo, but I will let the water trough overflow.
Sorry for bad spelling, I am rushing this out at work, =-) And sorry for the bad grammer, I’m Southern,…
Thank goodness, it seems that the fad for roans and duns is winding down. I attended a sale last Sat. night and the roan and dun weanlings brought the same $250 each that the chestnuts did. An occasionally really nice chestnut brought $200 or $300 more than the very average duns. These were all generic ‘cowhorse’ types. Some were quite nice, but are there so many people who are still working cattle on a regular basis that there is a demand for ‘cowhorses?’ According to prices, I would say not.
I like to pull the front legs and stretch them as faaaar as they will go.I only wish I could do that with me.
I like the idea of the fruit flavored Pepcid, good idea.
I still think a romp in the ocean is the best for the hooves.
And that 64 ounce Metamucil sugar free orange divided in 2 servings works good on sand.Just mix with feed.
one thing that has always been taught is that horses need to be fed at the same time each day, this is one thing that i have never managed to keep to, and has never been a problem for my horses, in fact at certain establishments that i have worked at it can often become an excuse for a vice in certain horses, obviously if your horse is yarded or stabled then they’re depending on you to provide the food and so therefore feeding time should be kept within a certain time frame but this can also be easily overcome by always having plenty of low quality hay available 24/7, as has been suggested previously, horses are designed to be constantly eating.
The trick is to learn to strike a balance between that ability one develops over years of first hand experience , listening and observation to intuitively “read” individual horses in individual situations and what science has to offer.
I worked for years in TB racing , where scientific illiteracy and and dumbass superstition always have the floor. The number one reason for doing a dumbass thing is ” That’s the way we always done it”.
On the other hand – a clinical study was recently published that concluded 50% of clinical studies will be nullified by another clinical study within ten years.Of course , that means there is a 50% chance they are wrong……..
arcadia_horses said:
“Any other Aussies, is it just me, or are the other colic drugs mentioned here S4 – and not available without the vet coming out to administer them?”
I’m a West Aussie and never had access to anything other than Bute; if that didn’t work then it was a call to the vet.
Minor wounds – I never use ointment for anything minor, I keep an aloe vera plant at the agistment centre and use the juice from the inside of the leaves on nicks or abrasions(including myself!)
Blankets/Rugging – I rug in winter but my pet hate is seeing horses being floated (trailered?) fully rugged and coming off in a lather of sweat. Has anyone ever noticed how hot the inside of a horse float gets with 1 or 2 horses standing in it? I don’t transport my horse in any more than a light cotton sheet, float boots & tail wrap
My horses are fed anywhere between 5 am to 8 am and 5 pm to 8 pm and they are perfectly fine with it. When they aren’t on pasture they have free choice hay so it’s not like they’re stressed or overly hungry. Sometimes *gasp* we even miss a feeding. I can see where horses may have a problem with irregular feeding if they only get food at those times like at a boarding stable when they get some grain and a couple flakes of hay twice a day. They may become overly hungry and stressed. I am so glad I’m fortunate enough to be able to keep my horses at home and keep them in as close to a natural state as possible. Horses are herd animals and grazing animals. I don’t believe a horse should be kept alone if at all possible without some type of companion animal whether it be a goat, donkey, pony whatever nor should they be stalled all the time and only given food a couple times a day. Just makes for unhappy, unhealthy horses and promotes the development of bad habits such as windsucking and cribbing.
Seriously interesting topics. Hay first, alfalfa(lucerne in australia) l feed lots of it to some breeds and not to others as it can contribute to asmatha in horse, overfed it can also cause founder and renal problems in pony breeds(l currently have one thats allergic to it totally).l also use oaten hay, mixed perenial grass hays and clover hay.Everyone here is fed according to their needs as well as paddocked(yarded or whatever) according to how well l can match those needs as l dont like ponies eating thoroughbred feeds etc.Blankets(rugs in Au)where we live we dont get snow but we have shocking wind chill factors so the thoroughbreds are all rugged but the ponies are generally left to grow because rugs dont make a hell of a lot of difference to native breed ponies anyway(they’re still hairygoats in winter) rugging my horses helps keep the feed bill down because instead of burning off the fat to keep warm it stays on them and l dont have to feed larger amounts to keep their weight stable in winter.COLIC is an amazing subject,experience helps on this one and l guess l’m lucky enough to have seen a lot but also l’m lucky to have had very few colic problems with my animals(touching wood/my head)one instance was a 6 month old filly who had a small hernia that was going to be repaired after weaning(vets advice) that popped out of her tummy area and caused massive pain.NO l did not walk her once l found her,YES l called the vet straight away and organised to take her in, while getting her ready she lay down and l knelt beside her absolutely scared she was going to die on me and l put both hands over they offending lump and gently pushed it all back in.To this day l dont know if l did the right thing or not but l managed to get her up and to the vet who gave her pain meds and reassured me she’d be fine till morning when he’d operate, so l off l trotted back home to see how her dam was holding out as l didnt have room for both on the float(we were moving house and she travelled with a billiard table for company) she survived.Other colics l have seen sand colic which to me is a summer problem related to being fed on ground with no grass cover and not wet down feeds and proper gas colic during the spring growth period when ponies be little piglets.Talking to my vet we decided that most colic can be avoided by wetting feeds all year but more so in summer and not letting piggy ponies eat themselves silly in spring(works for me!)THE MOST IMPORTANT part of my breeding/feeding program is whats in the soil, we test it regulalry as we live in an area thats deficient in many things so they must be added to feed or pasture improvement etc especially copper and dolomite.Research has pretty much proven that most problems of deviated legs is a nutritional NOT hereditary problem and is avoidable so its very important to know your feeds, l use supplements accordingly, lol l even use something called lysine which some people try to tell me is a steriod butit’s just an amino acid and used correctly is benefical in growing babies out well but for me its my formost weapon in the fight for healthy feet with only one real down side to it(l need the farrier as they grow faster).PLEASE people do NOT use it without knowing all about it!
I know alot of people have to board their horses and I understand not everyone can have their own acreage or farm to keep a horse. Certainly no one should be denied horse ownership because they have to board. LOL I just think if it were me in that situation I would make arrangements for my horse to have as much turnout as possible and if not free-choice hay then several feedings per day. I’ve been in boarding stables and seen horses standing in their stalls looking bored and dejected. I’ve read the feeding instructions posted on their stalls where Thunder gets one scoop of grain and 2 flakes am and pm. That’s just not appropriate feeding for a horse. No one will ever convince me their horse is completely satisfied and happy with that. It goes against nature.
oh crap l forgot to add the abcess thingy(sorry for being long winded once more)l’ve only ever had ponies with abcess(touch wood again) and have found it to be those that just can not cope with higher protein diets as well as have white hooves so l’m very careful but yes l will open an abcess rather than let it get to the coronet band l’ve found once it’s drained the animal seems to feel and behave more normally.The other thing l found all on my own is that if your horse has an injury that you are cleaning regularly and isnt infect but is still mildly weepy theres this stuff called savlon powder in a puff container only used it on one horse but geeze it worked wonders for my baby (thought l’d try it because l was using savlon liquid to clease wound) it’s got a permanet home in my emergency bag now.l use those snap ice packs as well but never for more than 20 minutes on a horse as “supposedly” they aint a good thing but l dont always have water to just run on a leg so got no choice and just treat them as l would a human strain, cold/hot packs.
Regards to all
I think if common sense is used to parse what you need to know, either from experience or from research, then you’ll do fine by your horses. There’s always a bazillion ways to do things, and they’re not all bad. For abcesses, I get my farrier or vet out to drain them, because I’d rather the damage be concentrated to a smaller part of the hoof than to have it tunnel up to the coronet band, which seems to take longer to heal.
We tailor our horses’ meals to their specifications, but all are based on good quality grass hay, and then concentrates, alfalfa and supplements are added. The old baby-sitter mare has no teeth anymore, so she gets a soaked slurry of alfalfa pellets, rolled oats, rice bran, senior feed, daily vitamin, and msm, and she looks beautiful.
We bring our horses in at night for several reasons: first, so they can eat their own dinners in peace; second, so the younger ones can learn that they can be away from pasture mates without it being the end of the world; three, I think it’s good for them as a training method to learn to be confined and accept it; four, it rains here a lot.
We also have them under timed lights to keep coats short and cycle mares earlier. We blanket them to keep them comfy. The bonus with the shorter hair coat is they cool out faster in the winter after they’ve been worked, and it’s easier to keep them clean when they go play outside.
hey… can someone post the link for the Clue mare’s craigslist ad? thanks!
Every horse is different, but for non-stock or mountain breeds who aren’t furry and musck-ley I’m a blanketer. For instance I think the QHs are going to be nekkid this year unless it drops below say 20. I have an OTTB who gets fluffy as a teddy bear in winter, but I think his hair is too fine to protect when it gets too cold and windy or wet. And he’s mister boney over the shoulders and hips, no insulating fat there! He shivers even in cold summer storms sometimes, but I’m scaling back this year to just a lined rain sheet and not his old 400 gram quilted blanket that one of the other horses ATE last year. Note my horse was born in Arizona and lived in south/central florida his first 15 years, so coming to Maryland (in january no less!) was a big shock for him.
Never tried poulticing for abcesses, sounds quite preferable to having the vet gouging holes in hooves!
On shoes: Definately there are horses that simply MUST have shoes, though I agree people need to think about that when they breed! My friend’s OTTB has the most FABULOUS FEET IN THE WORLD. Mine has ugly flat splayed dry cracked things, and gets much hoof goo. If nothing else it keeps the surface from peeling, keeps his ratty torn up soles coated in nice germkilling stuff so he doesn’t get thrush or infections, and makes them look remotely pretty. My trainer swore he’d go lame without hinds, but he went fine without them for years and only recently got them back on because in his old age he’s started dragging his feet so much he rounds off his toes…hind shoes not only protects his hoofies, but seems to encourage him to actually PICK THEM UP. As long as a horse isn’t sore and has good hooves I’m not sure why they should need hinds.
One of our riding students had a trainer tell her horses shouldn’t eat apple seeds and to cut them out when she gave her horse apples, any idea what thats about?
Look how fat my horse looks! He’s not really.
http://i128.photobucket.com/
albums/p166/urbanjackal/
Horsho9-07DebPam010.jpg
Apple seeds contain a high amount of arsnic and as arsnic is already a chemical in the body (l’d assume all animal species) maybe horses have a hard time getting it out of their system, l know it builds up and can make people sick but l dont know about horses(l DONT drink commercial apple juice because of it)
An apple with the seeds every once in a while won’t hurt a horse but you don’t want some fruit trees (apple/peach/cherry) growing in a pasture or close enough to the fence to drop the fruit in it so they can gorge on it. One cup of apple seeds can kill a pony. I always cut up apples before feeding because I’m afraid of choking and I remove seeds most of the time. My horses LOVE pears. We have two pear trees and that’s their treat of choice.
my mare had a mild seasonal colic last spring. we walked and walked and walked some more.
by the time the vet arrived, she was fine.
he asked, “what’s the problem? she looks fine.”
you don’t mess with success!
That answers the apple seed question then, thanks! Still seems weird..unless as you said you have an apple tree growing in your field and they’re eating a lot of them, I don’t see how seeds in the occassional apple treat is going to hurt them, but its a thing to know!
Our vet said that worming the cats was a waste of time: we wormed Uncle Orange anyway, and he went from gaunt to great within weeks.
He is happier too.
This isn’t a cat place, but that’s my latest vet story.
I did have a horse person(not a vet)reprimand me for not cleaning my pony’s sheath, and she told me how to do it. The pony,though, would have nothing to do with someone’s hand in his privates. He did fine without sheath-cleaning. No problems down there.
‘and they also die far more often than the pasture horses.’
I’m sorry but I have to giggle at that.
This whole apple seed thing is, for the most part, an urban legend, although it does contain a kernel of truth.
Apple seeds do not contain arsenic. They do contain a substance that can be converted to cyanide in the digestive tract. But, that is no reason to worry about your horse consuming apple seeds while eating apples.
1. Apple seeds contain only a tiny amount of this substance
2. The seeds have a tough coat and will typically pass through the digestive tract unscathed unless they have been broken by chewing. That is by Mother Nature’s design. This is how the seeds get spread in nature.
3. The body has the ability to metabolize small amounts of cyanide, thus rendering it harmless.
So, before a horse (or human, or other animal) would experience any ill effects related to consuming apple seeds, they would have to both consume huge quantities of the seeds and thoroughly chew/grind the seeds before swallowing. In other words, it is so very highly unlikely that it could be judged nearly impossible except as a deliberate act of poisoning.
I lost my mare to complications following surgery for colic from a fatty tumor on a stalk (pedunculated lipoma) – it got wrapped around her innards. There was no amount of walking or hydrating or resting or Banamine that could’ve savedher. One good roll in the right direction might’ve done the trick.
If the horse is in a safe place (not against a stall wall or something), I say let ‘em lie down, and let ‘em roll – not thrash, just roll. (While waiting for the vet, of course – not instead of getting a vet.) IMHO, there’s a natual, adaptive reason they *want* to roll.
I would also try walking some, but would let the horse rest, too.
I’m in a climate where blanketing is rarely necessary, but I perfer to have a blanket on hand in case the horse is sick (or recovering from anesthesia), or for travel to suddenly-colder areas (the mountains).
And I do not believe in keeping the area around the water muddy, so they have to walk through mud. I’ve heard that will keep their feet soft. Seriously, have you ever had your hands in water several times throughout the day? Were they moist and smooth because of it. Mine sure wouldn’t be – mine would be chapped and cracked.
I love your site! But I do disagree w/ only walking a colicking horse. I’ve unfortunately dealt w/ this enough times to see that a horse will become exhausted dealing w/ the pain, and just needs to lie down and rest and de-stress. If a horse is really wanting to roll, sure, keep him walking. But I could see that a horse could become so exhausted from pain and stress, that if it isn’t allowed to rest could become worse.
Every horse is different.
I used to think blankets were unnecessary, until my old girl started losing weight and not growing a coat– I blanketed her the next winter and it wasn’t as bad.
I can’t switch grain gradually– she thinks she’s being poisoned and won’t eat it. Speaking of which, I did believe in glucosame/chrodroitin and yucca, but she won’t eat her grain if there’s junk on it.
I used to not believe in shoes, until she got footsore.
If she’s mildly sore (arthritis acting up, injury, whatever), I don’t bute, because pain is the body’s way of saying something’s wrong. If she’s buted, she’ll feel too good and go out and reinjure herself.