The HYPP apologist of the day!
Sep 14 2007
Believe it or not, the American Halter Horse Association actually does have a sponsor who intended to sponsor them (as opposed to the other companies that were shocked to find out that they were on the web site). It’s a company called USA Embroidery which customizes things like shirts and jackets and caps.
Here’s their representative Ric Banks’ e-mail to someone who complained about their endorsement of an organization that bars nothing from registration based upon its genetic defects (although he seems to be using someone named Wendy’s e-mail). I will let his writing style speak for itself. My comments in blue.
Dear (name),
Thank you very much for taking the time to email us and we have noted your concerns, HOWEVER i also bred and show halter horses and i test every one of them before breeding as do most of the top breeders in the USA and other countries. (You test them but does that make you stop breeding them? There’s the question.) Education is a much better tool than slander. (For the one millionth time, it is only slander if it is not true. The AHHA has their rules on their web site for all to see, I didn’t make this stuff up about them gleefully registering horses with genetic defects.) The American Halter Horse Assoc. takes pride in promoting Top Quality breeders and trainer. (If by top quality, you mean those who breed HYPP positive horses!) IN ALL events and breed of animals there will always be those sthat do not care and will always do as they please regardless of the outcome. (You’re right, but if you bar them from registration and showing, there will be no financial incentive for them to breed genetically defective animals and they will stop. The AHHA is doing the opposite.) Stopping to purchase items from me has no affect on the industry , I am here to educate the pros and cons of the industry, (If you care about the industry, you do not endorse organizations that allow the registration of horses that have been banned from their OWN registry for a REASON) I can help you however are hurting the industry with your all negative ideas (Like that horses shouldn’t have to flail around on the ground gasping for air when it’s totally avoidable? Why, how very negative of her.) , First find the problem then find the solution, case closed. (We have found the problem and the solution is NOT BREEDING any H/H or N/H horses. However, the AHHA provides a way to AVOID the solution, and you have endorsed them by advertising proudly on their web site.) HH horses are no longer allowed to be used in a breeding program if you had all the fact you would however already know this. (You are the clueless one. AQHA does not allow H/H horses to be registered anymore. Other registries still do, and the AHHA allows them to breed and show with no restrictions.) And not all NH horse show signs, should we put them down because of the lineage? (No, but we should not BREED them and having an association that encourages that is ridiculous.) Do we do that to our children when they have health issues, or defects, I think not, we love them anyway and we care for them for the rest of their lives and beyond. (Um, apples and oranges but if you want to get into a debate with me about whether or not it’s ethical to reproduce if you know you carry a severe genetic defect, I’d take the same side I take with the horses.) If given a CHANCE The American Halter Horse can and will make changes to the industry to help promote good and quality breedings among their members. (By their policy that they will register horses with any genetic defect at all? That promotes good and quality breeding?) I AM VERY PROUD TO BE A MEMBER AND A SPONSOR for The American Halter Horse Assoc. (Potential customers: Take note!) This is a group that can make a difference, you ask me why?or how? (No, I don’t ask how. I know how they will make a difference – they will help perpetuate a fatal genetic defect well into the future that we could stamp out in thirty years except for people like you.) Because this group is made up of concerned adn caring breeders like myself. (Your concern is touching. It makes me want to tie you to a chair and watch that video of that mare gasping for air while her foal runs around her about 65,216 times in a row.) Again Thanks for your time and i request your spend more time finding answers to the problems rather than writing evil emails, as we know they serve no purpose. (WE HAVE AN ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM…it’s called NOT BREEDING any N/H or H/H horses. It’s not like this is a MYSTERY!) Just for the record I work for over 20 years for the State Vet. (No…comment) I know somewhat about what i am writing about..Again Thanks Ric Banks USA EMBROIDERY.( Proud Sponsor of AHHA..)
FHOTD: It’s just unbelievable, isn’t it? They don’t get it. They don’t get it at all.
One generation of not breeding these things and the ENTIRE DISEASE would be GONE.
There are no variables here. No mysteries.
Just greedy jackasses that don’t want to do the right thing when there’s money to be made doing the wrong thing!
112 comments to “The HYPP apologist of the day!”
« Previous 1 2
« Previous 1 2
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
I was talking to a friend the other day, she lives in Florida but was up in IL visiting. She and her husband have horses including a mare they planned to breed. She said they looked high and low to find the right stud and found a palomino that was exactly what they were looking for in TN. She was all ready to go ahead with the breeding when she found out that the horse was N/H.
She immediately scrapped the idea of breeding to that stud and is still looking for the right one. I might add they also do break their horses and ride them but she and her husband were not willing to take the chance and breed their mare to that stallion.
what a bunch of losers.
forthefutureofthebreed–I looked up the pedigrees of Exotic Fantasy and Small Town Fantasy on allbreedpedigree.com and didn’t see any Impressive–but it only goes back 5 generations so maybe he’s back there farther? or maybe these horses aren’t HYPP? Any ideas? (I am totally against breeding HYPP horses and think that there are some fine examples of idiotic people in denial on here, just wanted to check this one out)
I am saddened to say that the ApHC has recently passed a rule allowing HYPP horses to be medicated and shown in breed shows. They have, of course, not banned registration of these horses, but do require the results of “recommended testing” to be shown on the horse’s registration. Isn’t that “impressive”?
cuillin said…
forthefutureofthebreed–I looked up the pedigrees of Exotic Fantasy and Small Town Fantasy on allbreedpedigree.com and didn’t see any Impressive–but it only goes back 5 generations so maybe he’s back there farther? or maybe these horses aren’t HYPP? Any ideas? (I am totally against breeding HYPP horses and think that there are some fine examples of idiotic people in denial on here, just wanted to check this one out)
I don’t use allbreed…way too many mistakes. But to answer your question, I know several people who knew the individual horses behind those ancestors and had stated that a certain breeder had used a son of Impressive, but Sheik’s Review was given as the sire on the official records instead. Yes, Exotic Fantasy (1993) was HYPP N/H. He is dead now. Whata Knight and Cloudy Knight were also HYPP N/H. Cloudy Review (the dam of Cloudy Review) is suspect, with the questionable pedigree. Check the genetics of the colors in that pedigree thoroughly, and it will become evident that the pedigree is incorrect.
cuillin – Here is the pedigree for Exotic Fantasy (as he was registered):
Exotic Fantasy
On “Exotic Fantasy” – there definitely was a “oops!” in the pedigree.
Sheiks Review is reg. a buckskin out of two sorrels. That cannot happen.
Sorrel is homozygous for red and red is a recessive gene – meaning all red based horses (Sorrel, Chestnut, etc) are homozygous for red, do not carry the black gene (needed for a horse to be buckskin)
Obviously – pedigree was switched and from Sheiks Review forward to Exotic Fantasy the pedigree is worth bumpkiss . . .
Research is important – color research can find ‘errors’ in pedigrees and if Exotic Fantasy was HYPP positive then you can be 100% certain Exotic Fantasy discended from Impressive, NOT Skipper W.
Texaspam said…
On “Exotic Fantasy” – there definitely was a “oops!” in the pedigree.
Sheiks Review is reg. a buckskin out of two sorrels. That cannot happen.
Sorrel is homozygous for red and red is a recessive gene – meaning all red based horses (Sorrel, Chestnut, etc) are homozygous for red, do not carry the black gene (needed for a horse to be buckskin)
Obviously – pedigree was switched and from Sheiks Review forward to Exotic Fantasy the pedigree is worth bumpkiss . . .
Research is important – color research can find ‘errors’ in pedigrees and if Exotic Fantasy was HYPP positive then you can be 100% certain Exotic Fantasy discended from Impressive, NOT Skipper W.
For accuracy’s sake, the sire of Sheik’s Review (Skipper’s King) is a sorrel; his dam, Skip’s Review, is a palomino. And yes, agreed that there is definitely an error in the pedigree.
kay, I know I’m way behind on my reading and Emmy’s argument against skinny trail horses is way behind us, but just for the record pick up some old issues of Trail Rider magazine…studies seem to suggest (I hesitate to use the word ‘prove’ because its been a while since I read the article) that a shorter, slimmer horse has better weight carrying ability over terrain and miles than a musclebound hulk like an HYPP horse. That’d mean Walkers, ‘mountain’ horses like Rocky’s and Kentucky’s and Morgans are better trail horses than my big ol’ (but tiny for an Impressive bred {and N/N)) QH Mr. T-Bone. Think about it. The horse has to hold HIMSELF up as well as his rider and saddle bags!
Below is a post I have been putting on some of the halter horse discussion groups, and I wanted to invite everyone here, too! I do plan to stay on this list, so the part about my discontinuing my membership after the post is only for the halter horse groups.
Here is the post:
Hi, everyone,
First of all, some of you already will know me from the HyPP debate which seems to be ongoing year after year. My name is Dawn, and I am a staunch supporter of not breeding HyPP positive horses. That is nothing new to many of you, and hopefully, even if you don’t agree with me regarding HyPP, you at least can appreciate my honesty and the fact that I have never once wavered or waffled in my stance on this subject. I also hope that you can respect that I developed my opinion, as many of you also know, from years of research on the HyPP subject as many of you may have done as well. With that said, I am only posting this one message to this list and do not plan to be a permanent member here (to everyone’s delight, no doubt. I can hear the cheering now:)).
I’m sure many of you agree with me on one thing: The constant fighting about our opinions on HyPP is tiresome and nauseating. In an attempt to get all of our opinions in one place and OUT of other discussion group conversation which many members don’t want to read, I have just created a Yahoo group for the posting and publication of any and all WRITTEN opinions on HyPP. There won’t be the posting of debate between members on the board. As you know, this usually results in TOO MUCH hateful banter among members. So, in short, it’s not a discussion group. It’s a place for everyone (and I mean everyone) to post whatever opinions they see fit about HyPP without anyone posting back and forth to each other and creating a sickening laser show of insults. So, in the future, if the debate ensues at a discussion forum not really intended for HyPP debate (this one, for example), you can say “Here’s the link to my opinion on HyPP, so please go and read it, and we can discuss this via private e-mail AFTER you have seen what I really believe on this issue. That way no one gets into needless “But, I said this, and you misread it, took it out of context, etc.” arguments which take up far too much time on discussion groups. Your opinion can be officially recorded at the “Some Words on HyPP” group. I encourage you to be thoughtful and really write what you think no matter if it’s for or against HyPP breeding or rule changes, etc. As the information at the home page states at the “Some Words on HyPP” group, you may also post (or put in the files section, whichever you prefer) letters and articles that have been published for public review as long as the author’s name is on them. That means you may post letters written to breed organizations, book or magazine articles, etc., that you or anyone else has written as long as they have the name of the author on them and have been intended for public review. Posts containing your own opinions also must have your name on them as I don’t feel anonymous posts should be allowed. So, there will be no fussing at this site as it’s not intended for us to post to each other. It’s a place for everyone’s opinion on HyPP to be posted and all the opinions we can find on HyPP to be cataloged. There won’t be much moderation since I don’t have time for that and don’t anticipate a need for it because a Yahoo group of this type doesn’t call for moderation or fire extinguishers, etc. Of course, if someone doesn’t adhere to the rules and starts needless arguing in spite of everything I have said here and on the home page that this is site is NOT for posting to each other, then I’ll have to step in, but in light of the fact that most people have heard the arguing ad nauseum, I don’t think that will happen. So, you are all invited, and I hope you will join.
Here is the link: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/somewordsonhypp/
Best wishes,
Dawn Hamilton
I purchased my first Impressive bred horse when I was ten years old…big mistake in a way. I had not been on the horse judging team at this time, so of course I did not know much about conformation. The mare’s registered name is NCSU Two Steppin, and she was a successful Hunter Pleasure show mare. She did not have the typical “Impressive” look to her. Her back was extremely long, she had a small hindquarter, she was toed in, in the front, and she had a very masculine neck and chest. It was enough to make a well educated breeder cringe. We was very successful within the Hunter Jumper and Hunter Pleasure divisions. At this point, like I said I had no knowledge about Impressive. So, we decided to try and breed her to a son of Rugged Lark, Larks Overtime. BAD IDEA TO BEGIN WITH. We had her tested for HYPP, and she came back N/N…I DID SAY N/N. Thank God she was infertile…no Impressive bred foals on the ground. Yes, I will probably get bashed for doing that but oh well. I kept her until she was 18 years old. She had NO signs of HYPP before then…BUT OF COURSE THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE HYPP ATTACKS IF THEY COME BACK N/N! Next thing I know, I get a phone call to get the vet over to the farm asap. GUESS WHAT! MY N/N MARE HAD AN HYPP ATTACK…EXPLAIN THAT ONE. The test is just the rich mans way of getting out of trouble just so they can keep breeding these genetically screwed up horses. Yes, they win in the Halter arena…but their muscular bodies and tiny legs and hooves cannot stand up to much pressure at all. These horses are walking catastrophies. It broke my heart to see my mare have an HYPP Attack, she was miserable. I am a horse lover, and I hate to see any horse suffer. So why take a chance on breeding a horse that might end up suffering some time or another? Genetics are genetics people, this is not like the common cold that is just going to go away. You cannot make genetics dissapear, you have to stop breeding the line completely. Someone explain to me why my N/N mare had an HYPP Attack. I have vet proof, and the mare is still living…she is in Gordonsville, VA.
That is extremely frightening to hear. I have heard rumors of a N/N having an attack before, but you are the first eyewitness.
May I ask who did the testing?