Today’s Mother of the Year and other tidbits!
Sep 11 2007
Look, Ma! No helmet!
Um, not so much…
I have to say, this one looks sweet…hope he finds a good home.
Are you on your way to rob a bank on that poor overloaded pony?
They brag that they handle all their foals. But apparently not their mares?
Yes, I can TELL by your pictures!
I actually like this Friesian cross filly (see, just when you thought I hated them all), but what is with this picture? First of all, you shouldn’t be sitting on a 2 year old Friesian/draft cross at all – that’s way too young – and secondly, the sort of people who buy sport horses will think you are a total idiot for sitting on anything backwards in a ball cap and barefoot. If you are trying to look like a serious breeder/trainer/whatever it is you are, that is just not the way to go about it. The same goes for the video where you trot the same filly for the camera wearing short-shorts and flip flops. You don’t have to distract the buyer into looking at your ass instead of the filly’s. You only have to do that with fugly horses. You need to go talk to the dealers – they will pay you good money to ride horses at auctions dressed like that.
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OMG fugly y’all went and outdone yerself this time!
The Doc Tom Tucker mare, we have one too. She’s 25 and about as ripe as a two year old. She tear it up every chance she gets.
The draft Fresian cross I believe is at a nearby farm. (Across the street and a few houses down.) They are totally Batshit over there.
I don’t see a problem with sitting on a 2-year old. Now, if she were really *working* her or longeing her excessively, that would be a different story, but sitting on one? Nah… Of course, sitting on ANYTHING in shortshorts and bare feet is just plain idiotic.
Ok! So I went back and clicked on the video link. That is the farm down the road.
They do get some nicely built horses in and she did make a killing last year selling drafts & draft crosses, but money in hand and you take a horse home today, with no reference or regard as to if you have a clue what you are doing. She even told me when she buys them from the Amish if they say the horse ‘used to drive’ DO NOT HOOK THEM. You will be well on your way for a hell ride, not a joy ride.
She will start them under saddle, or contract them out to have them started, and sell them as a riding horse.
Ouch! You can tell by those shoulders our star rider has spent a little too much time in the Arizona sunshine. She’s working on a great case of skin cancer while she’s on that filly’s back.
wow….just wow. How D.U.M.
So i watched the Geronimo video and im pretty sure my horse would jump if i kicked him in the ribs with spurs too! *rolls eyes* anyway. i love how they promote running horses in wire fence connected by T-rails that are unprotected.
Dear god the We Emphasize Safety horse is malnourished!
And let me guess, Friesen lady is another parelli-parasite?
BLECH!
I think it depends on the horse. I’ve heard many times from people who ride draft crosses (which I do not) that you do NOT want to put weight on them until at least 3.
I have ridden stock breed horses lightly at 2, especially if that’s what their owners wanted, but in general I tend to agree that waiting equals a horse who will stay sounder longer.
I am soooo guilty.. bareback, no shoes, in swimsuit and shorts… most of my summers from 12 to 16.. Standing on the back of the horse while they at the lower leaves and I ate the ripe mulberrys at the top of the tree… *sigh* the good old days before helmets.. *LOL*
That is a nice Friesian cross, btw!
Snaffles- no Fresian lady is not a NH wonder or a Parelli Princess. They clain to train with dressage basics. I don’t EVER recall seeing anyone form the riding school in Vienna dressed like her though. ?? New fashion trend over there, perhaps we all missed out on?
I can’t wait for the fugly humans trying to breed the fugly horses… to themselves.
That is the only horrifying event left. Every other stupid idea has already been done.
I think then the world will implode upon itself.
Ok typo on my part- They claim not clain- Oh and Fugly they do not breed, she buys and resells. Kudos for that at least.
Draft do mature more slowly as do warmbloods. Arabs are also not started until they are 3 years old, and I feel the TB, QH’s and many other breeds would benefit if they waited too, but hey what do I know?
Hee. The WTG mother of the year lives somehwere in Oz. I am betting Queensland. Yes we have our fair share of idiots here too. BTW “paddock condition” here is a term for “I have been way to cheap to feed and worm my poor horse, and basically he is half starved”.
And how about the length of the feet on Shasta, the poor Apaloosa couch?
If you look at Erin perched up there on top of that filly’s butt all barefoot & such… If she were to slide off the rump, she will land in horse poop. Brilliant!
I wonder if she will stick the landing, or if it will stick to her?
Here’s another of our favorite breeders. Check out the sale horses. Perhaps someone should take some riding lessons? And definitely get your brother father cousin to ride the horse for you cuz he’s such a great rider with a fabulous seat…
http://www.ppranch.net/Horses.html
At least the girl on Geronimo can ride. I don’t know what the pluses of “He does little jumps with his front feet when he spins” are, but when I was riding reining, they weren’t really looking for that. Probably now tho – it’s changed so much. I also don’t understand why you would turn out English to do a western demo.
Hypno-Toad said…
I can’t wait for the fugly humans trying to breed the fugly horses… to themselves.
So you haven’t heard of Enumclaw, Washington then?????
Mother/father of the year. Put your little girl on the road in front of yearlings in little tennies…At least he fed them…
http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1189180271 There is another pic prior to this one.
So you can have the unbroke mare for free if you give them her foal, or you can pay $750 for her Uggh!
Does the gentle guilding that she can affors live in the backyard? I don’t see a pasture.
Why is it a stallion if it is unregistered????
The more I read this blog, the more my head hurts.
I meant can’t affors, see its contagious!
4THE HORSES- Them ain’t tennies dear. Look a little closer… Those are crocs, the wonderfully comfortable slip on rubber shoes, that don’t protect your feet around horses.
Hypno-Toad, here’s your brain breaker: http://www.journalfen.net/community/otf_wank/519621.html
I will say that the TWH (re. the girl in crocs with the yearling) that I’ve seen that go back to Delight of Pride have had super temperaments and really level heads. As a general rule, the TWH yearlings I’ve dealt with have been about the most laid back of any breed.
And they’re not even my favorite breed.
Sitting on the Friesian/x mare like that won’t hurt her, but it is true that with the slower maturing horses it is better to wait to start actually working with them until they are older, usually 3-4 years.
The Friesian/x mare, however, is one of the nicest horses which has been featured on this blog, silly photo or not.
I really would like to get a TWH. But, I have to wait until my daughter “Grows” out of her pony, which will likely be next spring with the rate she’s growing! The pony will go back to the person we got her from (per our agreement) and my daughter will likely take my appy gelding, and I will get my TWH. I know I shouldn’t focus on color, but I REALLY want a black with chrome…. dare to dream!
Ok, I will take a chestut or bay or spotted or roan or…..
Hairybeasties said…
Hee. The WTG mother of the year lives somehwere in Oz. I am betting Queensland. Yes we have our fair share of idiots here too. BTW “paddock condition” here is a term for “I have been way to cheap to feed and worm my poor horse, and basically he is half starved”.
———–
Yup, if you go on the home page it says South East Queensland…
Agreed on the paddock condition…
I think a quarter of the ‘fair share’ in Oz live just down the road from me *rolls eyes* A quarterhorse/TB cross that hasn’t spent a night out of a yard (not paddock, yard) it’s entire life and it’s a two year old…the show ponies broken in at 18 months, shown drugged and underage, and the people wonder why they’re broken down at six? *shakes head*
Don’t get me started on Stable Scum with three stallions that are stalled and never allowed out, except for when they break through the pathetic fencing…and cause a 70 year old racehorse trainer’s young TB to slip and fall, breaking the rider’s hip amoung other injuries… *gah*
Is it me or this is the saddle they are using on “rainbow” HUGE??
http://www.ppranch.net/Horses.html
I reckon our area has the monoploy on stupidity in Queensland…Tow blocks down from us, a whole paddock full of “paddock condition” straught shouldered, hammerheaded, long backed horrors, bred only because they like having foals, coz they are Cuuuuuuuuuuute. Oh, and a chap with a Cremello (aargh) stallion (fugly) that breeds anything he can get his hands on to it. His mission statement…he breeds horses that you can haul outof a paddock and ride without working down. BFD. I can haul my OTTBs out of their paddock and ride ‘em too without working down. Its called, feeding them appropriately, having common sense, letting them be horses and live out 24/7, and being able to ride. Ha ha.
sorry, that was suppoed to be TWO! Dyslexic typing…
That 17 year old mare is so cute… I want to buzz off that tangled mess of a mane, though.
How anyone can let a horse go like that, just completely ignore any type of training, is beyond me. She would have been a supercute 4H horse. And certainly all horses need at least one horse-crazy teenage girl doting over them in their life!
You would be right, Fugly. Our friesians don’t get ridden till 4 or 5 (older type breeding, heavier bone…) and aren’t normally cantering with people on them till 5-6.
Our drafts we don’t start young either.
On the Geronimo horse-
Those little jumps are really nice. You can cartwheel/spin him around AND avoid any foot-high obstacles in your way! That will come in handy since each “spin” ends up above 5 ft away from where it started. Added bonus- you’re halfway to teaching him to rear on command! He’s so versatile too- goes from full contact in a curb bit to… having his head pulled up in ONE HAND in the same bit!
Love the headset. Love the tack. Love the music. Love the pasture/paddock/fencing.
SCIENTIFIC FACT: there is no such thing as a “slow maturing” or “fast maturing” breed. there is mountians of scientific research that concludes beyond a shadow of a doubt that NO breed “matures faster” or ” is slow maturing”. a two year arab, a two year old quarter horse and a two year draft horse are all nearly identical in development. the fact is we breed horses to LOOK mature at a young age strictly for marketing reasons. the fact is horses that “look inmature” at two years old actally look normal. but thanks to furturities two years old with fragile and delicate back are saddled up and ridden into the ground.
its not the legs of a two year old , or three year old for that matter that you have to worry about. its the BACK and the NECK that you damage by riding two year olds. people start their two year old under saddle and then wonder whey they wont round up or collect as three year olds. it because the back and neck of the animal has been put under to much stress. people seem to think that once the knees close, hey the horse is all good, hop on! they seem to totally disregard the development of the REST OF THE BODY. there is no reason to start a two year old under saddle. except to push its training early and it sold or start showing/winning/futurities under saddle.
TIMING AND RATE OF SKELETAL MATURATION IN HORSES,
With Comments on Starting Colts and the State of the Industry
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t a reining horse spin supposed to PLANT one foot and pivot around it?
Isn’t this correct information:
As soon as the horse quits stepping with his front legs and starts to hop or jump around, the spin becomes a minus maneuver. This usually occurs when a horse is asked to go faster than what he can handle. If the rear end doesn’t remain stationary but wanders off, that also results in a minus maneuver.
I think it’d almost be harder to teach that horse to spin correctly than to take one and teach it from scratch.
I was asked to day if I have backed my 2 yr old yet ….????? are the nuts. I do lots of ground work and even a bit of driving but he will not be backed till next year no matter what anyone thinks. I will wait till he is the right age so I have a horse that is not breaking down at 4.
I don’t see anything wrong with the boy on the colt. You can evidentally tell that he’s relaxed.
The paint horse, no he doesn’t handle well, but he turns better than a lot of the horses I’ve seen. And honestly most mistakes are pilot error not horse error.
The fresian is huge, it’s not gonna hurt him. Even if he is just 2. She’s not doing anything with him just sitting on him. Yeah I’d wait on a finer boned breed, but a draft is a bit differnt. Yeah no shoes is asking to get a toe cut off though.
The mask comment was rude IMHO, you don’t know what this little girl may be going through. And honestly if your gonna pick on the horses do so but leave the children out of it.
horseluver,
“fine boned” and “heavy boned” mean nothing. recent studies have proven that the “fine boned arabian” infact has DENSER bones than a “heavy boned draft”. the outward appearance of the animal has nothing to do with what the animal is actaully like on the inside. the bigger a horse is in mass, drafts and draft crosses for instance the ligher the bones are. this is why draft horses are ill suited as riding horses. the bigger they are the less weight they can CARRY in relation to their body size, the more weight you put on an already
“heavy” horse the more stress you put it bones under. the horse is already maxed out in weight carrying do to its own body mass. elephants like draft horses are also ill suited for carry weight because its to much for their bones, their heavy bodies are ALREADY at max capacity. but like draft horses elephants are extrememly well suited to PULLING heavy loads. YES even just sitting on an INMATURE SPINE can cause damage. at two years old the spine is far far far from developed enough to bear any extra weight. again its NOT the legs that you need to worry about on a two year old as the growth plates are nearly “closed” by then. its the spine that is fragile and takes the MOST damage when forced to carry weight.
a horse being “huge” and appearing to be well developed is in no way shape or form a way to gauge the skeletal maturity of the animal.
>>Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t a reining horse spin supposed to PLANT one foot and pivot around it?< <
Yes. That’s why I am laughing at that one.
And I wasn’t making fun of the child when I mentioned the mask. I was making fun of all of the parents responsible for those kids sitting triple bareback on a horse with no helmets.
Check these pics out, scroll down to Rembrandt and Re goofing off.At least one of the riders has a helmet but geeez where do they get the ideas to do this stuff? http://www.threedayranch.com/Rembrandt.htm
Looks like the address got cut off, here’s the rest brandt.htm
What is it with people not wearing shoes around horses? Just the notion of stepping in something is enough for me to wear at least tennis shoes when I’m working in the barn. Yuck.
As for that Geronimo horse, way to teach him to kick his hip into your leg when you ask him for lateral give. Bravo, lady. That’s not a good spinner. I’ve ridden a decent reiner. The kind that makes your eyes pop out of your head because they’re so stinking fast, stop well and spin a hole in the dirt. That horse is no reiner.
Got2LuvthBob,
nice looking colt, to bad his rider/trainer is has such terrible hands and posture. OMG let go of his face! seriously her elbows are straight in nearly every photo and she’s got him forced behind the vertical line, you can see him gaping his mouth and begging for her to release her grip on his mouth. oh yeah an TWO YEAR OLD.
and yeah i hear yeah on the “where do they get these ideas?” who in their right mind does those things with a child, a two year old colt AND then takes photos of it????
“octopus.gallery said…
Shoot. Forgot about the length URL thing.
http://www.journalfen.net/community/otf_wank
/519621.html “
WHAT????
I think this made me hysterical. And… Disturbed.
And. What???
omg watch the video for White Stone. why are those people having their kids STAND ON and PLAY WITH their stallions????
ugghh all of there stallions are over flexed, pulled behind the bit/vertical and gaping at the mouth. ……drawreins much?
wow, those are some enviable manelocks O_o if only i could stand to not do my hair for 17 years to achieve such an effect!!
Geronimo is definately not spinning. to achieve a proper spin, with that really low flat top line, a horse has to actually be moving forward off it’s hind end a bit. you ask for a forward movement and then ask for the horse to pick up its shoulder and step over (think turn head slightly to left and push ribs to the right, I believe it’s lateral work in dressage, but I’m not to familiar with the terminology)That is the beginning of a spin. What this rider seems to be doing is trying to get the horse rocked back on its hind end and then move that front end over. without forward motion all the poor animal can do is hop up in the air to get its feet off the ground enough to move. And yes, they do need to plant 1 hind foot for a proper spin, which this horse also can’t do as it is bearing all its weight on its which essentially anchors it to the ground. Maybe she is trying to develop her freestyle reining routine, I just can’t figure out her costume though, maybe International Velvet?
barnibus said…
omg watch the video for White Stone. why are those people having their kids STAND ON and PLAY WITH their stallions????
Because it is safer for the horse than putting a plastic lawn chair on its back.
Think if I offer her my firstborn child she’d give me that filly? Wow she’s a beauty. Never though Friesian/Shire/paint could look so elegant.
Wow I think I need to move to that place that has Geronimo. If they can sell those horses that those prices then the mare I’m trying to sell it worth a heck of a lot more then them and she has shown!
The spinning thing made me sick and so what if he can do it in an english saddle, big deal. The saddle doesn’t do anything but hold your butt on. A good reiner should be able to spin in western, english, no saddle, or funky saddle, doesn’t matter…..but then again maybe she can just claim that the spinning he did stucked because of the english saddle! I bet she has never seen a real reiner do a spin because if she had she would never, never allow that video to get past the delete button.
Barnibus said:
the bigger a horse is in mass, drafts and draft crosses for instance the ligher the bones are. this is why draft horses are ill suited as riding horses.
Where did you manage to come up with that? That comment gave me a good laugh. Have you ever owned a quality draft horse or even ridden a well trained draft?
Please provide a link to the research that supports your comments.
“fine boned” and “heavy boned” mean nothing.
I think when people use those terms to describe horses they mean the size of the bones, not the actual density, meaning the refinement. Arabs have delicate looking legs and whatnot whereas drafts look like they have tree trunks for legs. Fine boned vs heavy boned
RE: Palomino AQHA mare – not halter broke:
I’d get her ultrasounded for DSLD/ESPA …There’s just something funky about the mare’s front legs that makes me wonder. Does anyone else see this? Sometimes it’s so vague, but she looks a bit over at the knee, has what appear to be overlarge fetlocks and somehow she looks …not really comfortable.
It’s subtle, not glaring at all. I’ve just looked at so many pics of horses that don’t have the hypertypical fetlock drop that turn out positive for D/E.
(D/E horses don’t have to be down in the pasterns; that’s actually a late-presenting symptom of the systemic cellular defect in connective tissue.)
If there’s anyone who’s not found it yet, or wants to learn more about the myriad symptoms that result from connective tissue defect, there’s a group on Yahoo: DSLD-equine, and a dedicated website: http://www.dsldequine.info
That Geronimo, wannabe-reiner has a seriously short stride.
I agree with Skye on Geronimo… that’s what shocked me. The stride! My gosh and NO engagement/overreaching at all! Those horses are an HORROR to ride :S
OK….Did ANYONE click on the first link and scroll ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM???
She has the same 18 month old boy, sittin on top of her STALLION.
Drafts and draft crosses can be saddle broke at 3 but should only be lightly ridden (walk/some trotting) until they are at least 4 or 5. They grow more slowly than other breeds and you can do some serious damage working them too young. They shouldn’t be used for jumping or eventing until they’re 6 or 7. If our draft cross is any indication they’re brains mature more slowly too. LOL He’s 6 and is just now starting to really settle in and do his job well.
Re: babies riding. I have a friend whose daughter has ridden pretty much since she was born. You know how? By a parent holding her with both hands and “sitting” her on the back of a gentle old mare. At no time did the parent remove both hands AND the other parent was holding and controlling the mare. That is the only acceptable way for an 18 month old to ride a horse, I don’t care what anybody says. There is just no way in hell a child that small had any defenses if one of those horses spooked. Imagine for a second the stallion stepping over the rope on the ground and spooking. Who is going to get to the baby before his bare head hits the ground? No one – that’s why it’s negligent.
doitright:
Barnibus did link the study. I’ll link it again for you (cut and paste in two sections):
http://www.equinestudies.org/
knowledge_base/ranger.html
It’s very easy for even well-meaning horse people to get caught up in common myths and cliches. Science, however, is your friend…
Thanks for the link to that study. Apparently it’s not just drafts that aren’t fully mature until 6. I didn’t know that. I did know however that you shouldn’t fully work a horse until they’re at least 4. Working a horse at 1.5 to 2 is absolutely irresponsible and cruel.
My friend J, whose sense of horse safety I trust entirely, has a photo of her daughter at 14 months sitting on a big, gentle draft horse. What you don’t see in the photo is J on the other side holding her daughter on, and ready to catch her should anything go wrong. J says the draft horse did not spook, ever, in the 5 or 6 years she owned him.
When her daughter was 3 1/2, J started leading her around on their pony. About 5 years later, her daughter competed in her first event on that pony at Pre-Elementary level and they did pretty well.
These days, the daughter is J’s online horse-hunter (J is looking for a new eventer), and J’s yelling at her a lot for wearing flip-flops to the stable. Her boots are at the stable but J says the girl should wear close-toed shoes to get there. Daughter is now 13 and a natural on horseback.
Regarding the ‘reiner.’ That site previously had him listed at $15,000 OBO. Now he’s listed at $9,500 OBO. I wonder why suddenly he is priced $5500 less.
I just watched the reiner video and all I can say is that’s not like any reining spin I’ve ever seen. LOL Cute horse with a choppy short stride and cute girl though. And can someone please explain to me how you can have a 17 y/o horse that’s NOT HALTER BROKE? What the Hell? She loads great huh? What do you do point her at the trailer and chase her in? Good gawd.
Truthseeker said:
Regarding the ‘reiner.’ That site previously had him listed at $15,000 OBO. Now he’s listed at $9,500 OBO. I wonder why suddenly he is priced $5500 less.
Simple math, really. At $15k you’d expect the horse could plus one or two maneuvers. The only maneuver this horse could plus is exiting the arena.
This might be a nice trail horse (funky lope and all), but this isn’t the kind of horse reiners shop for. He does nothing right, or well.
Must be basing the price on a per-spot basis?
Doitright,
im not saying drafts cant be ridden but the FACT is they are build soley for PULLING, not riding. they have not been developed as a riding horse. elephants and bulls arnt riding animals also but people ride them too. yes i got that information not only from Dr.Bennets website but also from her in person, from a clinic attended with her (she is aswome in person by the way) and from my Professor/DVM at University.
there is a lot of caution against riding draft horses because the maximun upper limit for a weigh bearing horse is 1600 lbs. beyond that it puts to much strain on the animal.
also at Dr.Bennets clinic there was a lot of “well im kinds BIG (as in really over weight) so i bought a draft horse to ride”. Dr.Bennet. her answere was “you are wrong to think a draft horse is the better choice for a larger rider, infact a draft horse IS NOT more caplable carrying more weight, its actually less capable. what you need is to get your weight to a reasonable weight and find a horse with a BROAD loin span. broad backed ponies like Icelandic Ponies are the very best for weight carrying, NOT draft horses”. a lot of people overweight riders sitting there who already owned drafts for riding were a bit uphappy with her words. but scientific fact is scientific fact.
her research and the research of other top Vets and Bio-Mechanical Specialists in the world speaks for its self. there are TONS of myths about horses in general out there and the drafts have their share of myths and half-truths. i look at the hard proven science when making my decisions about how i use horses.
and yes i have ridden plenty of drafts and draft crosses, and you know what? i prefer to hitch and drive them, all of them. driving is not a bad thing, infact its a great thing. i drive all my young horses regardless of breed.
wow. just wow. my son rode at 18 months too… on our ancient gelding, supervised in the arena with a freakin helmet!
the Aussie horses were pathetic.
and the old AQHA mare just made me sad.
Our draft cross is a Morgan/Belgian. He’s an excellent riding horse with a nice smooth trot and lope. He’s broad-backed and comfy and he’s got an engine that’ll go all day on the trails. I’m very impressed with this particular cross as some draft crosses can look pretty goofy. Our Harley horse is absolutely stunning and we get tons of compliments on him.
horsepoor said:
how you can have a 17 y/o horse that’s NOT HALTER BROKE? What the Hell? She loads great huh? What do you do point her at the trailer and chase her in?
Hate to admit it, but I had a 7 year old mare that was so un-broke that’s exactly what we did.
She’d been born and raised here, and was hard to catch and hard to halter. With the other horses being a priority, she just never got any time put on her because she was problem-free, easy to get along with, and you could still give her shots, etc. – just NOT haltered or tied.
We backed up the trailer to the pen, ran her in, hauled her down to the arena, and ran her down the aisle into a stall.
She was leading in a couple days, and showed in halter within a few months. Now I’m riding her and plan to show her under saddle.
Stranger things have happened, believe me. There’s usually some kind of weird story that goes along with these scenarios.
Guilty as charged.
The Day I Almost Won Mother of the Year:
A couple of years back, when I was still unaccustomed to horses, my daughter (who was a fair rider at the time) asked me to hold Duke while she climbed on. Duke was a nearly-20-year-old, 17hh, draft-thoroughbred-paint cross lesson horse. Just as Daughter is at the top of the mounting block, one foot aiming at the iron, I notice a huge horsefly has landed on Duke’s neck, and I SMACK IT AS HARD AS I CAN!! with the riding crop I am holding. Yessiree, and as you all know, a less wise horse would have bolted, understandably, launching Daughter to Kingdom Come. Thank God, and thank Duke, that that awesome horse just looked at me with his great, dark eye, and said, “Lady, that was stupid!! Your kid isn’t even in the saddle yet!” He never moved an inch.
You will be pleased to know that I have learned a couple of useful bits of horse info since that day, and that I no longer endanger my own kids, or anyone else’s. In fact, now I am the Safety Police, much to my girls’ chagrin.
And by the way, when the lesson barn owner sold her horses at her retirement, Duke sold for the top dollar, in spite of his age. He was a remarkable fellow, and he is welcome to come retire in my pasture at any time in the future.
HorsePoor,
some draft crosses can do well as riding horses but it all comes down the specific horses used to create the cross =)
i too have seen some really nice morgan, quarter horse and even saddlbreds crossed on draft horses that produced exellant broad back, balanced and well put together horses. you see a lot of them working in large cities as Police Mounts. Providence, New York and San Francisco have some downright stunning saddlbred-draft crosses and quarter horse-draft crosses so nice they could pass for warmbloods. but they really dont look all that drafty, the crosses produced “warmblood in conformation , type horses”.
one of the best schoolies i ever had was a palomino draft cross gelding with the gentlest temperment ever. i dont know anything about his breeding as he came from a dealer, but he would have likely been considered a “light draft”, almost definetly part TB. he was realively fine boned for a draft cross. he had a wonderful smooth trot and was always wanting to please. as he got older it was the little kids and novice riders that mostly rode him. they just loved him to bits, eventually he went blind and was retired at a small farm.
we needed science to tell us horses arent ready to work till at least 4? well blow me down…. i thought the fact that any horse sport with the slightest standards of safety, decency or dignity wont let you enter anything under 4 wouldve told you that
OH! and what kind of dumbass cant tell the difference between an 8 year old and a 2o year old? i guess the same kind that calls it a ‘guilding’
Hate to break it to a few of you, but draft crosses are ridden and do well. (from an actual working cowhorse stand point) They’ve proven to be good in the rocks, and great at stopping and holding cattle, where as a smaller QH might get jerked around quite a bit more and possibly injured.
Never say never on anything, just based on a breed. I’ve even seen a guy on a mule go out and beat some $50 thou+ roping horses to win the entire thing.
Helmet story for you all…Readers Digest condensed version.
15 yr old beautiful girl. Top 4H contender for years running. Excellent horsewomen, and well behaved, well trained horse.
Small town parade in July. All the kids are lined up waiting for start of parade. Pony pulling cart spooks, runs through staging horses, 15 yr old girl’s horse doesn’t spook, but backs calmly out of the way, catching rear hoof on curb and falls over backwards, 15 yr old laying on pavement with catastrophic head injury.
She had half her skull removed to accommodate swelling. Any chance for recovery is fading as time goes by, she is still unresponsive and the Doctors are not very hopeful.
Fast forward to the next week. 4H at the fair, I was shocked to see all the kids showing without helmets. Even the younger sister of the girl that was injured.
Moral to the story, all teenagers are brain damaged. But most out grow it. Unfortunately, this little girl never will. PUT A HELMET ON YOUR KIDS PEOPLE.
WHAT is with the music on Geronimo’s video? That’s not going to inspire someone to buy a horse for $9500 — even if it were worth it…
That Fresian/draft cross is just gorgeous…although it looks to me like she might have something else in her as well, some TB or something. I can’t fathom how a pure Fresian + a pure draft breed is going to produce such a build… What was the deal with the video though? Was that nutter woman free-lunging her? Didn’t look that smart, especially as there were things all over the arena area (poles, a mounting block etc.) With a young horse bookin it like that, I’d be a little concerned. But clearly, this woman isn’t!!
Just out of curiosity, is that mare for sale?
Yes, she’s for sale and she’s 1/2 Friesian, 1/4 Draft and 1/4 Paint. I do think she’s a nice horse – as we’ve often discussed here, it’s not that all crosses are bad, it’s that you have to know what you are doing. While I’m not a fan of sales theatrics like sitting on an unbroke 2 year old backwards, barefoot and bareheaded, I do think whoever bred the filly had a good eye for what he or she put together and that’s why the result is so nice.
I neglected to comment on the wanabe reiner until now. I was distracted by the photo of our neighbor on the fresian-draft cross, and her sunburnt shoulders which will soon look and feel, just like leather! Hooray skin cancer, eh?
Yes the horse is supposed to plant one rear hoof as a pivot foot. Geronimo would not be much different than starting one that has never spun before. If you lay the groundwork for either horse and take you time, doing it right as you go, they can both easily be taught to spin correctly .
Our motto is slow and correct is better than fast and wrong . Any time. Just ask a reining judge. They should agree.
As pointed out by Luckyduck, the spin is in fact a forward movement, much as the canter pirouette in dressage is a forward movement. Hoof placement is just a wee bit different though…
We start all of our horses (cutters, reiners, hunters, jumpers and driving horses) using dressage basics. We end up with horses that are relaxed, rounded, balanced and supple, who move with throughness, and have been taught to bend and give in their lateral work, move away from leg pressure, give to rein pressure, flex at the poll, elevate and in turn achieve more pronounced forward movement, etc.
We set the horse up for the spin by letting them stop, stand and relax for a moment on a loose rein.
When we are ready for the first steps of a spin, we ask the horse to shift their weight back by picking up the reins and shifting our own weight back a little. Apply leg pressure with the outside leg (right leg for a spin to the left) at the girth, while also applying slight rein pressure to the outside of the neck, by moving your left hand over to the left and back- hand to hip.
Visualize sitting on your left butt cheek and leading the horse left with your left hand as you bring it back to your hip, while placing your calf against their side. Pointing your toe out to the right will place your calf against their side rather than your ankle or heel/spur. (Your calf covers a bit larger area, and you may not want to jab a spur into your horses side when just starting out.)
If the horse gives you only one or two steps off in the direction of the spin you are asking for, stop and praise them immediately. You got a couple steps, be happy with that. Make a BIG deal about it, they did what you wanted. Hooray for your horse!!!
Let them stand a moment and ask for a step or two left again. Then try going to the right. Same thing stop and let them stand. Set yourself up and them, then ask for a few steps to the right.
If you need a moment or two, to visualize the process and the finished result, do it while your horse stands to relax. Talk it out and tell yourself what you are asking for and how you are going to get it.
You would be suprised how well this simple visualizing technique works- for anything, reining, dressage, wp, hus, jumping, showmanship, etc. even non-horsey stuff too.
The horse will relax because you are A) relaxed and breathing, B) you are speaking to yourself in a relaxed manner and C) you will most likely, give them the proper signals making it crystal clear and easy for them to understand.
Again make a big deal when you get what you asked for. ‘Scrub’ their neck with your fingernails and let them make faces, while telling them how good they are in a silly voice and how much good they have done.
If they try to walk off forward instead of going the direction you asked for, right or left, stop them, let them relax and try again. Don’t get upset with them, they probably aren’t quite sure just what you want yet.
Some horses just don’t pick up anything quickly, while others give you more than you asked for, the very first time and then make you work for it from there out.
Once the horse knows how to do a few steps of the spin correctly, ask for a few more. Once you are getting a correct, slow spin, maybe one or two full circles, encourage a little more speed by applying leg pressure and kissing, clucking or whatever you choose.
To stop our spin, we take out leg off the horse, quietly say whoa and return to the upright position-taking your weight off the pivot foot (remember the visual)- and place reins and hand on their neck.
If they start to ‘fall apart’ and the quality of your spin is not what it should be, stop and start over. Go slow, but do it right. No harm done, you just want to consistently do it correctly. As the horse figures it out, they will get better at it and they will speed up.
Also many of you know this already, horses tend to work better on one side than the other. Things may come more easily for them to the right than the left or vis-versa.
It’s OK, we have reiners who still spin better one direction than the other, always have and always will, no matter who is on their back giving the cues. Let it go, it’s not a big deal.
Don’t drill them on their ‘bad side’ hoping it will improve, or at least equal their ‘good side’, chances are you could sour them going that direction altogether. If you hated math in school, no amount of drilling you on it, made you like it any better. This is no different for your horse.
If I missed anything, or wasn’t crystal clear on anything, or even got anything wrong, I’m sure someone here will correct me or add to it.
There are as many different ways to get a good spin as there are horses and trainers. What works for one horse, rider & trainer, may not work as well for someone else and their horse or their trainer. Feel free, that’s what’s great about this blog, and why it rocks!
The Friesian Sporthorse mare is for sale on warmbloods-for-sale.com for $7,500, click on “Friesians” and she’s on the 2nd page. Or you can search by her name: Dats Hailey.
I don’t love her pedigree (especially the unknown supposed “Paint”) but she does look like a nice first generation FSH cross. Also (hint hint) for the greedy people looking to jump on the FSH bandwagon by crossing Friesians and crap like QH’s, Arabs, Morgans, Paints, etc., this mare would be a much better choice EVEN with the less than wonderful pedigree and the possibility of Paint blood, AND you’d be a step ahead of most of the other breeders because you’d already be on your way to a second generation cross…
She is very fairly priced at $7500 imo, although the video won’t play for me, and that would be a huge determining factor.
I just can’t get over asking 15 grand or even 9 grand for an unproven horse. Yes he’s flashy and seems well broke, but damn. Perhaps he has an aptitude for reining but he hasn’t done it yet. I’m living in the wrong horse market.
Yea, drafts do do better when driving since thats what they were bred to do, but as well with percherons… they weren’t initally heavy drafts like the ones you see coming out of Canada and France today. They were originally bred as war horses. Which is why the American standard of the percherons are more accurate to the original origin of the breed then the big chunky monsters we see lopping around on farms.
And most definately, the spine is the biggest worry in young horses.
::::She is very fairly priced at $7500 imo, although the video won’t play for me, and that would be a huge determining factor.:::
To bad you can’t see the video. Wow, is all I can say. When she gets older, and with the right training, she’ll clean up in dressage.
One of the nicest horses I’ve seen for sale in ages. I don’t understand how a horse this good came out of this type of breeding though.
barnibus said…
SCIENTIFIC FACT: there is no such thing as a “slow maturing” or “fast maturing” breed. there is mountians of scientific research that concludes beyond a shadow of a doubt that NO breed “matures faster” or ” is slow maturing”. a two year arab, a two year old quarter horse and a two year draft horse are all nearly identical in development.
Yes, quite right.
And the european ‘warmblood’ was developed from european draught breeds, with the addition of ‘mostly’ TB for refinement and rideability.
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The pure draught conformation doesn’t lend itself to athletic ridden work ‘usually’, the limb action being more ‘up and down’ rather than forward, this can lead to concussion type injuries.
Having said all that, there is an owner here in the UK who regularly competes her 1st X Shires in higher level dsg, she also keeps them out all year round and doesn’t clip them.
I’ve had some good times competing draught Xs, Clyde x 3/4 TB is an excellent cross for anything that requires a jump and the Irish Draught X TB is the ultimate ‘warmblood’.
‘Warmbloods’ have been around for a lot longer than the Europeans would have you belive, the English have been crossing shires/Clydes/Suffolks etc with TBs for eons, that’s how we got our hunters and early showjumpers
Cutnjump – would you xpost that on the training message board? It is just excellent advice about teaching spins and I’d love for everybody to read it.
Another Father Of The Year candidate… only the first 30 sec or so are relevent, but the kid is ok if you watch the rest of the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvcV93u6L0&mode=related&search= Hopefully that posts ok
alright, I admit, I have adorable pictures of my godbabies (at 4 and 2) sitting on a green broke Peruvian Paso stallion, but at least someone was HOLDING THE HORSE and someone is standing by just in case one of the kiddies happens to tip over. “Safe riding” lady has just about everything wrong, from her underfed horses, bareback/barefoot no helmet kid on a loose, malnourished horse, and bad fencing to boot! She gets the Fugly Trifecta!
cutnjump – thanks for that awesome description of how to teach a pivot. i’ve never done a bit of reining in my life (always thought it looked awesome though), and yet i was able to visualize exactly how to give the cues to begin teaching the pivot. kudos!
“If you kick him he’ll do a little jump!”
If I kick you, will you jump?
=)