The results are in…and I have an idea!
Sep 04 2007
I think it’s particularly interesting that we have 1803 readers (plus me, I answered my own poll) who are comfortable breaking a horse from scratch (split between those who will work with a horse who knows nothing, and those who will work with a horse who has been normally handled.) That’s a much larger percentage than the general horseowning public.
I’m sure many of you who gave those answers are not currently training professionally for a variety of reasons. Maybe you’ve grown tired of owners who won’t learn along with their horse. Maybe increasing hay and grain and shavings costs have made it too unprofitable. Maybe you don’t think the overall risk is worth it anymore. I can totally relate to all of these.
Yet one thing I think almost 100% of readers of this blog agree upon is that lack of training is the #1 reason horses wind up in bad situations. So I’m going to offer up a little challenge to those of you who do know how to train a horse: In the next six months, I challenge you to volunteer to put 30 or 60 days on a horse who isn’t broke and who would not get broke without your intervention. It can even be your own horse who isn’t a priority for you to break (for example, an unbroke broodmare…not the 2 or 3 year old you were going to break anyway), a friend’s horse who bought a youngster or adopted a PMU or something and is now overwhelmed but can’t afford full training, a rescue horse in the possession of a rescue that needs help to make him more adoptable, an auction rescue…whatever you feel comfortable with. I’ll even count OTTB/OTSB broodmares if they have not been ridden since the track and the track was at least 10 years ago. That’s close enough to unbroke for me. And if you’re starting with an unhandled horse and don’t get further than groundwork in 30 days, that’s just fine also. There is no specific goal you’re trying to accomplish other than making the horse more marketable – closer to the kind of horse who can find a great home – than he/she was before. The only thing that doesn’t qualify is a good quality youngster that you were going to break anyway, or horses you are being paid to break (taking board money for them is ok, but the training itself is a donation). This is an exercise in sharing your knowledge and abilities for the benefit of the horse – a chance for you to be the Angelina Jolie of the equestrian world. (Sadly, I don’t have any Brad clones to offer as incentives…)
I’ve got mine picked out. She is a 17 year old broodmare who belongs to a friend who has never been broke to ride (my friend acquired her that way, several years ago – she was one of those broodies who ran loose on the range most of her life with very minimal handling). While she has been having beautiful, healthy foals, at 17 it’s obvious that will not be her meal ticket forever. I like the mare a lot, and she was left open due to a late foal this year, so I’m going to make it my winter project to break her out. That way, when the day comes that she can no longer produce, there will be a little girl waiting with open arms and a bag of carrots for what is going to be one heck of a nice 4-H horse. One thing about an unbroke 17 year old with good conformation – those legs are flawless.
So who wants to join me? I’m thinking I’ll set up a message board to detail my progress with this mare with pictures, and that way anybody else who chooses to join in the challenge can start a thread for their training project. Not only will we be doing a great service for the horses, but our training blogs detailing our progress could be very educational for others. Winter’s coming – most of you aren’t going to be as busy as you are in the summer. Lessons slow down, the show season is over or close to being over for most. It’s the perfect time to invest a few hours a week in a horse’s future.
I can’t offer a cash prize or a TV show like the Great Mustang Challenge. But on the plus side, you can choose a nice old broodie and not a mustang that wants to kick your head in! 
Think about it and I’ll probably put the board up in a month or so, when I have time to start my project horse.
177 comments to “The results are in…and I have an idea!”
« Previous 1 2
« Previous 1 2
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
As for older, unbroke horses not physically being able to be ridden, I believe that is hogwash. Given that a horse can create bone by impact, as long as a horse is allowed to move and create impact, I think it’s fine, as long as conditioning is part of starting under saddle. Yes, it’s a commonly held theory that young race horses produce good bone by starting as yearlings, they still breakdown, nearly every single one of them. And it’s always a leg issue, and usually a bone issue. It’s also a theory that keeps the industry an industry. Keeps the vets, farriers, suppliers and trainers all in business. Whoever posted that they were going to teach a donkey to pack – where are you located, and can I come??? It’s been on my mind as well. I am in Helena Mt. and if anyone out there needs help in this adventure and you live here, post to this posting.
First Dog – I attended a clinic taught by John Crandell and Stagg Newman at the AERC National Championship a few weekends ago and it may have covered this. Here’s my recollection: Young animals (humans included) can improve condition through exercise that stresses muscles, ligaments, tendons and bone. The tissues break down, then remodel in adaptation to stress during rest periods. That is why “rest days” are important. Muscles remodel fastest; other tissues more slowly (there are a few exceptions). Younger animals keep condition longer between exercise sessions, then start to lose condition. Older animals lose condition faster between exercise sessions. Eventually, in older animals, it becomes difficult to build in enough rest periods for the tissues to remodel and build strength, without losing significant body condition. In essence, the tissues break down faster than you can build them up. I hope I stated that clearly enough. SusanC
Well, been there, done that in the past..not so sure I want to tackle it now at mumbldy-mumble years old.
Will my current group count? (and do you get extra points for fugly? I have 3 I picked up from a dealer, a 9 yr old who knows what mare, (looks like a broodie from the uddder, but why oh why did they breed her?) who does at least take a saddle and was started sometime. One not so fugly QH broodie, 20+ and been there, done that, really just needed groceries and refresher, and 5 yr old TB gelding off the track.
I don’t start horses from scratch anymore unless I bred them. I don’t have that much life insurance.
i don’t know but wouldn’t a horses ideal retirement be in a nice big green paddock living out your days with a nice friendly bunch of horses, not being annoyed by people? just my thoughts.
What a great idea! It’ll be a learning experience for all of us. I wish I was close enough to lend a hand. I look forward to reading all about your adventures with this mare.
Ahh Ozflick…that’s what’s known as a perfect world, and we don’t live in a perfect world. Of course the ideal retirement is to be turned out for the rest of their days, but only the VERY lucky get that. The rest get shipped to a sale. At least this way if someone rides them into the ring they stand a chance.
Hey 4thehorses! I am just above you (Near Saskatoon, Saskatchewan). I am also going to teach my horses to pack! I really want to go on a pack trip through Yellowstone one of these years.
This is a fun idea and I look forward to reading progress reports. I can’t join in because my dance card is full with client horses and my own horses. However, I have done this kind of thing in the past and found it very rewarding.
Dear FHOTD, a modest request: Could you please post a blog topic specific to the Morganites who want to meet up at Nationals in October? We promise (right, ladies?) to not clog you up with our private chitchat, but I’m afraid we might have lost track of some who would want to join us. I often scroll waaaaaay down a blog to catch up on comments and know I miss some. So pretty please with a lump of sugar on top? Just so we can check off each other’s blog names and make our plans?
Sincerely,
the-farmer’s-wife (who suggests we all bring a small Hallowe’en mask and have someone take a pic of all of us for FHOTD to post after OKC, so we can protect our incognito identities))
which_chick: sounds like you are doing a terrific job of educating the girl and turning her into a responsible horsewoman. Great job.
My boy is also ten, he doesn’t have that kind of opportunity to try something like endurance riding but he does get a good grounding on what work it is to keep a horse. I take him up to the Equestrian Center where he works with the interns or the grounds keeper. He does both. In return he is given an occasional riding lesson and was given a week at the horse camp. His grandmother brought her 22 year old appaloosa gelding for him to use. He loved the camp and made some new friends.
He also has had the opportunity to do ring help during one of the entertainment shows, and one time set barrels for the barrel racers. When he is up there he is continually looking for jobs to do so he is always welcome. It has been great experience for him.
The 25th of August they had a large show bringing in some of the top acts around from around the country. During that time he helped with crowd control and back-up work.
Ok, I’m not at all “qualified,” but I think (IMHO) that I’m better than our local yahoo trainers, so I’m in.
My best friend has a 4 year old green broke QH gelding (and two yearling TWH geldings, but I won’t back them til next year, and only then if she insists). The gelding is theoretically broke, but in my experience, he’s only trained to follow his “mom.” He doesn’t care if someone’s sitting on his back, but he’s not at all sure about taking direction from that person on his back.
Anyway, my pledge for the great Breaking (Our Bones) Contest is to make the gelding a good trail horse, and possibly a good WP local show horse. He’s a sweet boy, and we get along well. He’ll make a good horse to ride with my QH friends. You’ll learn more than you ever wanted to about Dunkin the Pretty Boy if FHOTD ever sets up that BB for us!
I am one of the “only trained horses” folks, (a) because I am a chickenshit, (b) because my husband would have a fit if I was working with untrained ones, (c) because I’d have little idea of what I was doing, and (d) because I am discovering that I really don’t enjoy riding except on a certain type of horse — quick and smart — and a less-trained quick and smart horse just sounds like it would be dangerous.
That said, I know that for the few horses I “click” with, my riding them improves them, so maybe that counts as “further training.” One of them *is* somewhat green, but he’s very willing and one just has to keep in mind that he’s a bit spooky.
I’m game. I’ll do it.
Just yesterday I was eye-balling our 6yo mare who I had “started” a couple of years ago then had to stop because of an injury she happened upon last summer. She’s been lunged, saddled, stood around with a snaffle in her mouth, and I have ridden her bareback a few times with a rope halter.
Since her injury she’s been a little hesitant to much interaction. Understandable.. but no excuse for my slacking.
She’s sweet and she’s willing and my daughter tells me “She isn’t here for just decoration, Mom”. My daughter is right.
We’ve been so busy with the four geldings we show and trail-ride with, and the injury slowed down the progress (along with our procrastination). I think this is exactly the inspiration I need to further her education.
I’m in.
Now I just have to pick a date on the calendar this week to get started lol.
Um… I’ll try not to make it similar to the diet I’ll start on Monday.
(Looks around for her cowboy hubby to swing the first leg over her! hee hee)
Okay, count me in!!! I am bringing home 4 babies in about 4 weeks. I happen to KNOW FOR A FACT that 2 of them will be completely unhandled when they arrive. (I LOVE my friend dearly that breeds these horses, but she doesn’t do ANYTHING with the babies! UGH!)
I am one of the ones that LOVES working the babies, and depending upon how I feel about them, I will start them myself. But, for the most part, I prefer to let someone else put the first several rides on ‘em. lol
But, I still feel that working with these unhandled babies will be an assett to their future. I am also bringing home two ponies, one of which will be ready to start and has had NOTHING done with him.
So, those are my projects. It will be a lot of fun to follow everyone and see how their own projects are going. May I suggest that everyone starts their own blog so those of us who would like, can follow your progress?
Regarding those of you that are doubting your skill and experience, you have already shown that you are more than ready to train… You can admit when you need help. Thats an awesome skill to have mastered!
Please don’t count yourself out for this challenge simply because you have never “trained” before. Have you ever ridden a horse in a bit or saddle that they were not accustomed to? Have you ever been out trail riding and decided to jump your horse over a log? Have you ever reprimanded your horse for something stupid and possibly dangerous that it has done?
If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you have TRAINED a horse. Training is based a lot more on common sense than it is on your resume. Granted, I would not recommend someone with NO experience to start a green horse, but I think that everyone on this list (at least the active members whose posts I have read) are completely capable of moving a horse from one that requires a confident rider to one that is good for a novice.
Maybe for those of you that do not feel you are capable, or do not have the financial means, to accept FHOD’s challenge, you can take your current horse (whether that be owned, leased, or lesson horse) and teach it something new.
If you take that challenge, there are still a tons of things you can teach to make the horse a better riding partner, and thusly, more valuable! Ask around and find out what everyone suggests, then have at it and enjoy it, and when you accomplish your goal, give yourself a BIG pat on the back!
Chester’s mom (and anyone else that is rescuing and fostering animals) give yourself a big ole hug from me!!! You are helping where help is needed, and thats all that matters.
FHOD, awesome blog! This is by far, my favorite!
Ann– I too am a chickenshit… Always have been, always will be. I guess thats why I like to spend LOTS of time on the ground with them! lol I feel ya there… you know what they say about the little white speck on top of chickenshit right?.. Well, that’s me! hehehe
Farmers Wife….if someone comes up to you and asks you if you are Fugly…it’s me! Or…one of the others!
I am just racking my brain trying to figure out who everyone is.
FHOTD could we please have a corner? Thank Ypu! Thank you! Thank You…for ALL of it.
When I was about 12 years old, my Dad dragged home five Arab brood mares and two 4yo fillies (I say fillies because they had been untouched by a human hand before we got them).
I crab about my Dad breeding everything with a vagina, but one of those fillies turned out to be the best all-around show mare in my youth. She was injured when we got her. It appeared someone had taken a pot-shot at her and she had a bullet-hole in her side.
She was NOT interested in being messed with. We got her healed up and started working with her. As an end result she was one of the most responsive and intelligent horses I’ve ever had the experience to get to know.
That was long long ago, but I don’t give up on the grown horses. Yes, they are bigger and stronger, but they are also more attentive and wary to what you are offering. In turn, they respond to consistent, kind, repetition sometimes very easily.
The mare I plan to use as my project is big and strong now, but she does have a kind nature to her. She may dump my ass a few times… but I’m excited about this challenge. Maybe she’ll surprise me.
I don’t claim to know beans about horses and I don’t claim to be a trainer. However, I’ve been around horses all my life and I kinda think I’m one of those that Fugly referred to as those who “do it without thinking.. as second nature”.
I have friends who can rattle off the training lingo. I just nod.
I’m excited about this.
Thanks Fugly!
*hand in the air*
Ooh, ooh, does it count if we already started this a few weeks ago?
Taking a severe biter, kicker, walker-over-of-humans, and general diva pain in the ass mare and making her a nice equine citizen seems to be the safest thing I can do for her, keeping her from the double-deckers-wise.
And, what TheFarmer’sWife was speaking of–my local horse club sponsors two kids a year (small club) to horsemanship and riding lessons. We do one Make A Wish (or similar org) kid, and one financially and/or emotionally needy kid.
It’s one of the best feelings you can get, in the horse world.
I know I’m late on this but…
KathyP Said:
“Personally, I think the poll is skewed and some folks who said they “are comfortable starting horses, even unhandled adults” are lyin’ out their asses, and if confronted with an actual project horse like that, they would piss their pants…I’m just sayin’ is all.”
I will admit freely that I have yet to put a first ride on a horse. But, in all my years, I have put:
The 4th ride on a horse that had no sense of self preservation. For those who don’t know what that means, essentially, it’s a horse that cares more about hurting you than NOT hurting himself.
Put the 3rd ride on a horse that had maimed previous handlers.
Consistently worked with horses that no one else would touch, both groundwork and under saddle.
Trained a proud cut OTTB from 30 days on out, and he was still considered pretty rank when I bought him, hence why he was for sale.
I have worked with some pretty rough horses. I have yet to meet a horse that frightens me. At least until the second trip to the ER.
I’ve been bitten, kicked, stepped on, thrown into barbed wire fences, dragged, flipped over on, you name it, it’s probably happened to me.
Oh yeah, my DH is military, so I don’t have to worry about medical care. It’s all free…nothing to sue over.
I’m one of the ones that said I would work with anything.
woo – sounds like fun! Now I just have to explain to my partner why I am seeking out yet another project to take up my time.
hmm… shall I place an ad for free training? Or buy an inexpensive broodie off Dreamhorse??
Welll, I’m not taking on psycho horse here… but she does have some issues going on.
My favorite charity is my own 10yo daughter whom I’m TRYING to pass on some horse-sense sometimes through osmosis.
She has the desire, but I’ve pounded safety in to her so much in the last several years, I probably pounded more fear into her than anything.
However, she too was eyeballing the mare yesterday wondering which discipline she would turn out to be the best at.
I also have a goofy 6yo pony-arab we’ve actually been riding, but he’s a total goofball. I wish we could post a pic here because I caught him standing with his tongue hanging out like a tard. It really is quite entertaining.
I may just throw him into this project as a side-dish.
*shrug* This is already a policy for me… anything old enough and sound enough to be broken out, should be. So when I bought a 20yo, not saddle broke (and never bred) stallion, guess where he went? Yep, he’s now 26 and retired from riding due to a health condition, but he’s fully eligible to star in a “parent of the year” picture (just bring your own kid.
I already have a training queue. First one up currently is the leased mare who needs another 3 months of training before she’s returned (part of the deal).
Personally, I think the poll is skewed and some folks who said they “are comfortable starting horses, even unhandled adults” are lyin’ out their asses,”
***
Ok… I have handled unhandled adults, but polled at the next level down. I have been the first leg over unhandled adults.. but still polled the next level down because I think I was the crash-test-dummy in those situations lmao. (yeah, my Dad is a real hoot and I, too, have a few chicken-shit bones in my body as a result)
(or maybe it’s a lesson learned and you don’t DO things the way your Dad did!)… Ok, I’m regressing.
Anyhoo, I’m not sure it’s skewed at all. I looked at it and thought hard about it. I placed myself honestly.
Keep in mind that everyone’s a really great rider on a really well-broke horse. Just ask them. My well-broke geldings aren’t perfect. Some days I wonder OMG, you’ve been riding for 40 years, yet, CAN YOU NOT RIDE?????? These are the things I ask myself on a daily basis.
Hell… methinks I may even try to lead a stallion down the road with a neck-string just for shits and giggles. Now I just need to find a stallion (sigh).
Ok, maybe not… but it’s a fun thought. I’d be certain to have my handy-dandy gelding rope horse saddled and ready to run him down after I dragged my butt up off the dirt.
I’m getting old and brittle and will have cowboy-hubby pacing nearby to scrape me up off the ground. (smile)…. but it will be fun and I look forward to the results of this project.
OK, we have a message board, so have fun with it!
I trained professionally for years, specializing in training horses for ranch work. I had several ranches that would bring over a truck load of geldings from 3 to 9 years old. The only time they had been touched by human hands was to be roped and castrated. They were less trouble to train than the spoiled and downright dangerous horses that were the product of wannabe trainers. I had a lot of success with both types, and far fewer wrecks riding the wild bunch. Ya`all know most of the problems horses have are people problems, and IMO wannabe trainers create most of the problems. I feel if you want to train, work for a variety of trainers, learn from them, take the good, leave the bad, and leave any horse you touch better than you found them.
I am now a senior, senior citizen, so will not play your current game. I do look forward to hearing about all the action!!
>>Your fond image of a girl with a bag of carrots and a lot of love is far more likely to be a girl who doesn’t realise that galloping around the paddock, barrel racing and jumping everything the horse can scramble over isn’t something an older horse can manage < <
It would be a cold day in Hell before I’d place a YOUNG horse with someone like that. This is why, like most rescuers, I screen potential homes and ensure there is parental/trainer supervision, not to mention conducting follow up visits to ensure all is well.
I started a 19 year old over fences years ago. She wound up end of the year champion Short Stirrup Equitation. Never took a lame step, ever. Her story is here.
>>Dear FHOTD, a modest request: Could you please post a blog topic specific to the Morganites who want to meet up at Nationals in October?< <
Put it on the new message board and plan to your hearts’ content!
Bugger, I guess the SB gelding in my paddock can’t count now as he’s more or less finished, just needs “milage”.
I took on 2 earlier this year, with one hoof already “on the ramp” so to speak, of the dogmeat truck. One I have sold on recently, and I’d intended to do the same with the black boy I still have before I fell in “love”.
Even though I may sell on a SB at a modest profit (think of my time being worth next to NOTHING), I consider them a lobour of love, as they sell for a fraction of what a nonSB that I put the same work into is worth. I do have a “wild capture” Kaimanawa mare I “rescued” (read paid WAY too much money for given that she’d foundered then been starved, but I couldn’t leave her where she was), that I really need to do. I keep telling myself she is NOT a keeper, but she has been on hold to regain some condition.
Or I could do my SB broodie, just for a giggle. She is actually supposed to be being bred this season, but could use another “job” as I don’t intend to breed from her every year.
I did 3 Kai mares last year, 2 of whom were sold on, and the 3rd is now my 7 1/2 year old daughters’ babysitter.
Me, me, me, me!! I will, I will!! (waving hand madly)
Actually, I lit a fire under my own ass a month ago and started riding 3 of my own that have been languishing in the leisure life while I slave away trying to feed them and their 5 companions. No, I’m not REALLY a collector. I am a former breeder who got a whiff of what was coming 2 years ago and gelded the stallion. Unfortunately, 2 of the 3 2005 foals, who used to sell before hitting their yearling year, are still with me. Rather than watch them head for a fate worse than death, I decided it was time to shelve the sentimentality and realize I’ve GOT to part with some or most of them. It’s not fun feeding & cleaning up after that many every day and not having the time to enjoy them or give them the attention they need. (I’m not talking medical or farrier attention here, those are handled. It’s the emotional attention and exercise that’s lacking in their lives.) So I have chosen who I can’t bear to live without, and the others are going to be made saleable. One already sold for a decent price this weekend, a 9 yo gelding who is now going to thrill 2 little girls as their 4H mount. I’ll be continuing with the 7 yo bitchy bitchy mare with a crappy crappy lope, and the 3yr old gelding. Since I feel I can comfortably ride 3 a week, next week 2 yo filly with 5 rides on her joins the work string. Waiting in the wings is 2yo stallion (left that way for a reason, and no, NOT for breeding)who is quieter than 3 yo gelding. He will not leave here with cojones. On deck behind him is big slightly nutty 10yo blonde AQHA who was trained at one time before being broodmare. The child’s pony stays, she bought him (and you talk about FUGLY!) and he’s her confidence builder, he can stay til he dies. The chosen one can stand to be ignored for awhile, she spent last year at a trainer’s, she’s got the goods and they ain’t going anywhere. But I am definitely committed to making the others productive in a non-breeding sense. I guess maybe only the Blonde really qualifies for FHOTD’s horse-mentoring program, but hey, I’m trying. Perhaps when I’ve moved my 5 along, I will look for another riding-rehab project. One thing’s for sure, I’m never breeding again.
FHOTD – I’ve taken a BYB and their 26 horses under my wing does this count? =)
These (non-horse) people (w/money) honestly didn’t know better. Thought they could get a stallion and a few mares and make some money breeding. (The local breeder, of quality horses, who sold them their not-so-quality breeding stock did not make any effort to enlighten them, go figure—>$$)
These people readily admit that they are in over their heads. It has taken me 3yrs but I have enlightened them to the plague that is BYB horses and the not so nice fate that awaits them. I have convinced them to stop breeding, geld all the colts, and sell their stallion; and sold horses for them (they didn’t have a clue where to start) reducing their herd from 26 to 12 and still going.
I put two under saddle and the rest I did groundwork with to give them the best possible chance. This winter I hope to put whoever is left under saddle and get them sold next year, leaving the owners with 3 or 4 of the most-likely-to-suck-at-life-and -end-up-on-a-truck’ers, who can live out their lives there as pasture ornaments.
So, while I agree most BYB’ers are of the holier than thou ‘my horse is the best damn thing and should populate every corner of the earth’ kool-aid drinking variety, there are a few out there that can be shown the light.
Yay Barnbrat! Just think of how many more horses would be in this world if you hadn’t done that! Good job!!! Glad you could show them the light!
FHoTD-
GREAT idea – it’s very much like the “Mustang Makeover” competition that’s going on now (do a google search if you haven’t heard of this yet).
I have an important question, though. At the place where my horses are boarded (which I also help manage), there is an 11 y/o arab mare who has nearly flawless confo, but who was bred for halter but was not shown to due a pasture accident that left her with some harmless cosmetic scarring on her legs. She has never been bred, and has lived as her owner’s pasture ornament. She was only halter broke and got minimal handling (caught for feeding, fly spray, vet and farrier).
However, I’ve JUST started working on her for the purpose of the owners perhaps giving her away to a friend – I’ve literally put only 6 days on her now (2 all groundwork, 4 under saddle – not consecutive). Even though I have a few days’ head start, is it fair to declare her as my project?
Also, (and I’m absolutely not bragging here) this makes the third such horse I’ve trained for these people. One mare I broke at age 16 – she was a retired halter horse (arab), and I got her going well for western and english arena and trail, and low-level jumping, and the owners fee-leased her to their teenage granddaughter. The other one was a 16 y/o gelding who was a cull who was so sweet they didn’t want to sell, but never ended up doing anything with. Last year I broke him to saddle (western, very basic reining), and I now use him as a beginner’s lesson horse. – So when I hear people say that it’s pointless to start older horses, these are the examples I bring up. Both horses were older, but both now have useful jobs and are happy and sound.
Good luck to everyone participating!!
Sure why not, I’m in. My mother has 2 I can choose from, or do both (she’d LOVE that!). One is a 6yr old Arabian mare. I have been on her a few times in the last 8 months, but mostly just sitting on her, but haven’t in the last 6 months. She also has a 3yr old PMU Draft filly. I have been on her twice, back in April, but I stopped when she bucked me off and hurt my leg (there was some major extenuating circumstances leading to this accident). So what do you all think? One, the other, both? Let me know what you think.
4thehorses said..
-Yes, it’s a commonly held theory that young race horses produce good bone by starting as yearlings, they still breakdown, nearly every single one of them.-
No, it’s not theory, it’s been researched in Australia and shown to be true. Horses who start track work as two year olds (not racing, but track work) end up with higher bone density.
As for breaking down, from my observations, far more racehorses in Oz break down mentally, not physically. Starting them too young and starting them badly are the two primarly causes. Green brain in the horse, lack of skill in the breaking process, and you have a psycho hot horse with no brakes. And who can blame it? Not me!
Monty Roberts makes a bundle rehabbing horses like that – and more kudos to him for it.
FHOTD – how do you prevent the new owners of a horse selling it on? Do you actually sell the horse or do you lease/loan it instead? If the latter then you retain control, but if the former really there is bucklies you can do to ensure it has the future you envision. Even with a lease, there is bucklies you can do to ensure that the horse is treated as you want, when you are not actually there. For every good lease story I hear, I hear a dozen horror stories.
And yeah, I’m game. I promise to pick something out of the field (friend is a byb — that’s where I got the Goof — so there’s unfortunately a pretty good selection available) that is four years old or more and unbacked. I need a new project for next year’s 4-H CTR anyway as the Goof is pretty solid these days.
For my young-human project, I will continue with the girl, who wants to move from her solid-citizen pony to her daddy’s nonreactive, sensible, and kind fifteen year old Arabian mare. Cardi (the horse) doesn’t have anything beyond stop/go/turn, so the kid is going to teach her lateral work, backing up, lead changes, rating at different speeds, pivots on forehand and hq, better transitions, etc. I’m not an expert, but I’m capable of coaching for that much. We can make Cardi a better ride while the kid learns something about training horses. Cardi’s pretty level-headed and sensible — she’s not a bad starter horse for learning to train.
Waves hand…. I’ll take a Mustang, we started several back in the 90′s when I lived stateside, http://www.kbrhorse.net/whb/must26.html#7
Photos of 3 of them from back then are on that webpage, right now we’ve just finished 3 older draft crosses and 2 paint youngsters, all of which were from “scratch” for some customers, some point this fall we’ll get a “challenge” not something we plan for but with local auction rejects or “trade in’s” its something that we just end up doing anyways atleast a couple times per year. We also are currently doing freebie phone consults for a 18yr old girl starting her young horse who cant afford a trainer but needs mentoring, looking forward to seeing everyone elses “challenge” updates. great idea fhotd
I’ve got a 10-1/2 year old pinto horse (quite bEE-YU-ti-ful) who is out of a nice looking grade (maybe registered once, with lost papers, who knows) stock horse mare, by a 1/2-Arab Pinto endurance horse stallion. I did set up the breeding myself, yes, yes, yes, I know shouldn’t breed those unregistereds, but I have no intention of ever getting rid of him. I wanted an endurance prospect, and the stallion was very nice, and the mare was very nicely put together (but whoever started HER under saddle taught her that you must GO GO GO GO; after a LOT of work and a lot of jigging around the barn, pasture, she almost learned to walk. That’s a training issue, not a mental problem, so I felt comfortable perpetuating her temperament. (Shoot, she’s quiet as a lamb if a child is around her, and if you lead her with a child on her she is very, very careful and slow.)
Anyway, when the colt was about 3 months old, I had my first child, and then 2 years later had another. I did a LOT of groundwork and fun ‘bombproofing’ work with him, but was home by myself with two small children and never felt comfortable actually starting the riding part of his training. He’s been sat-upon / ridden about 8 times in his 10 years, but not for 2 years now. You can wave palm fronds and lots of other colorful / loud children’s toys around his head, under his belly, throw those $1 bouncey balls at him (you know the ones that are in the big bins at your local pharmacy / Wal-Mart) and handle with grace whatever other strange thing I could think of to do to him.
It’s time he became a more productive member of the family, especially since my delightful/wonderful AQHA mare is now 21-1/2 years. (GOD, I shudder to think of the time she starts going downhill) If anything ever happened where I couldn’t keep my horses, there’s not much market out there for a 10+ year old gelding who doesn’t mind an umbrella opening in his face, but can’t be ridden, especially since I didn’t register him with the pinto registry, nor the Red & White One-Quarter Arabian Endurance Prospect Association (haven’t I seen that registry out there with the other BS registries that are popping up?). It’s too bad he doesn’t have BLUE EYES, then he could have been triple registered.
Well, school has started, 4 of my 5 (yes, 5, yours-mine-and-ours) children are now gone during the day and my husband pops in and out throughout the day in between customers. Maybe I’ll pull ol’ Justin in out of the pasture and actually get him finished – although I have to say, since I’m older, don’t ride as much (therefore my ‘holding on’ muscles are kind of out of shape) I have a lot less desire to jump up on a basically untried horse.
Doesn’t have to be saddle training, does it- I have a handled but unbacked three year old that I am forever putting off harness training- would that do??
Love the challenge idea!
I was one who said I’m comfy breaking a horse from scratch. I did my guy and he’s going very well- but I also had him since he was 5 months old, did a ton of groundwork, and he’s got an easygoing personality.
However, since I have access to some OTTBs on layup it would be easy to participate in such a challenge.
yay fun! (I love OTTBs, they’re my favorite!)
Oh, and also wanted to add that I’m fine with young or unbroke horses- but horses who have learned nasty habits or attitudes are something different.
I won’t have anything to do with a rearer, for example (unless it’s one that’s new to riding and is confused), or horses that want to kill me. A bucker- maybe.
(just being honest! But there’s a big difference between “unhandled/unbroke” and “rogue”, I’ll happily climb on the first, but not so much the second)
re: older broodies
I didn’t see anything in the challenge rules that said the horse had to be a fugly with behaviourial problems to count – so why would my now rideable, beautiful, cadenced and sweet tempered Lusitano mare end up with some idiot kid? Far more likely to end up as an all rounder for an oldie like me who wants to do bit a bit of everything, but gentley.
I have to say that in my experience there are very few soundness issues with graded mares (i.e. approved for breeding) who have good conformation and have bred good quality stock, even when they are backed in their teens.
Additionally, I have a appointed knowledgable executors who have instructions on how to dispose of the horses in the event of my death.
I have two candidates if anyone needs a project.
>>FHOTD – how do you prevent the new owners of a horse selling it on? Do you actually sell the horse or do you lease/loan it instead? < <
I actually sell, but the biggest thing is follow up. You can have all the contracts on earth, you still have to follow up. You prevent a lot of disasters by following up, and yes, that means on-site visits. It is a royal pain in the ass, but I honestly believe it’s the only way to do rescue. You have to ensure these animals are safe for life, not just safe for the time being. And yes, no matter what, you will still have the occasional adopter train wreck that you will have to scramble to fix – but it won’t happen as much with a good contract and follow-up.
Oh, and background checking prior to the adoption. It’s not hard to bg check people anymore…it’s cheap and well worth doing. Heck, just go to pet-abuse.com and you can read about the hoarders in your area. The information is out there.
I used to do cat rescue and we had a huge Do Not Adopt list for the city I was in. It was a revelation. People learn the “right” answers and start to lie. The list really helped prevent accidentally giving them an animal just because they “seemed nice.”
By the way, I think it’s great if you can help a BYB clean up their act. It’s a fine line. You can get accused of enabling by helping them sell their horses, but honestly, I’d rather that than the horses sit there not worked with. Once they exist, you can’t send them back. I think it’s good to help a person like that out, but use the opportunity – as barnbrat has – to educate them about how poor the market is for the low end and get them to reduce, if not entirely stop, breeding.
Many people aren’t evil, they’re just clueless.
Unfortunately, I can’t join in this contest, although I do think it’s a great idea. I barely have the room for one horse right now; and no sort of arena/100 percent sturdy place to tie, etc.
BUT – I have taken it on as my mission to educate “fupid” horsepeople out there. I try not to be condesending or to push my knowledge on them, but if they ask, I’m right there with an answer or suggestion. If they make a comment that borders on fupid, I’ll dig deeper with a few more questions in hopes that they can begin to see some light.
I have also had a friend recently come to me and ask for some help in purchasing a horse or two for herself and her husband. They are livestock people , and he’s had a horse before, but she hasn’t. Luckily, I trust that they won’t go all FUBAR on me. I’m excited to help them find a couple of good, safe, older GELDINGS that they can enjoy.
So, I’m not training a horse, but I AM sort of training people…does that count?
BTW – I was one who said that I was NOT comfortable with a greenie…I’m a chicken!
Great idea!!!
I am in. We have done that with about 3 horses this year but I am game for another. There is no shortage in my area. I will just pick one up at the next auction for $75 to $200.
I am comfortable on green horses (or better yet, ponies), but I do not know how to start a horse from scratch, especially if it’s never been handled before. However, I currently live in NYC (Manhattan), am a full time grad student with no car, and also have a part time job as an analyst. I have no time for riding (nor the money! I challenge someone to find me a stable that’s accessible by public transportation and is cheap). I’d say that’s a pretty good ‘excuse,’ don’t you?
Therefore, I am relegated to the role of “cheerleader,” and can provide psychotherapy for those going crazy.
Also, I will do my best to provide therapy to people who, without therapy, might buy a horse/dog/other animal and mistreat it. No use training the animals if the people aren’t trained as well.
Good luck to everybody!
I’ve been doing this since November! My friend and I took on two TB’s that had been racehorses in their younger days and supposedly did some dressage and who knows what, but then were abandoned at a self-care facility. They were starving when we got them, and one is now a lesson horse for my friend. The other is much hotter and flightier, and we’ve been working on bringing her around so we can sell her as an eventing horse. She’s made huge strides and we both wish we could keep her!
If anyone in the CT/MA area needs a horse to break..let me know! She’s a former PMU mare, never broke, but I have the basics on her.
I have a 7 yr old mare (raised 1 foal) that is only halter broke, with some serious trust issues that we have been working with. I had intended since we brought her to get her started ( was going to send her out)But her trust and confidence issues say she is not ready and needs more time. I will spend more time then what I had originally planned . Was to be a slow all winter project. For this I will set of goal that at the end of 30 days I will to be able to saddle her with out fan fare and possibly pony her off one of my other mares. My only goal with her is to build trust and get a good foundation, before she goes out for her 30 days next year.
GeldTheBreedersOfFuglies! said…
I have also had a friend recently come to me and ask for some help in purchasing a horse or two for herself and her husband. They are livestock people , and he’s had a horse before, but she hasn’t. Luckily, I trust that they won’t go all FUBAR on me. I’m excited to help them find a couple of good, safe, older GELDINGS that they can enjoy.
I am doing the same thing! An acquaintance called and said “Guess what? We’re getting a horse!” Argghhhh – they know NOTHING about horses! I could just envision them coming home with an unbroken, pregnant mare with a foal on her side. “But she was pretty!”
She told me they were going to look at one that day (very UNreputable dealer…) I butted in right away and put a stop to that. So now, I am the official “helper” in their quest for a horse. I can deal with that. If I can match them up with a quiet, kid-safe, uncomplicated mid-teen gelding, I will be so very happy!
Ok, I’m inspired.
I have a 15 year old mare that is “green” broke (her friend saddle her and got on a few times). She is my Mom’s but more of a pasture ornament. Now my trainer says out of the 4 at the farm she has the most potential and encourages me to work with her. (I prefer my older mare that is dead broke but lame sometimes).
The mare is respectful on the ground when you are handling her. She responds well to attention and work. However, she has taken 1 shot at me. I was carrying the hay away from her on a pitch fork and she kicked the barn about 7 feet behind me. I had one eyeball on her, turned on my heels and gave her the pitch fork in the ass. I felt bad but I had to send the message that is not going to fly.
She could’ve kicked me if she wanted to, she was playing dominance games with me, “Lady! Where are you going with MY hay, I don’t want to walk to it, I want it served to me!”
Anyway, she is the best conformation we have out of our fuglies and I do want to start open shows next year, the WI State Horse Council has started a challenge out there for all riders. http://www.wisconsinstatehorsecouncil.org/championship_challenge.html
I thought I would be riding my 21 year old AQHA on some trails or open shows but she is struggling to stay sound after foundering from her previous owner.
Can we send you pictures of our projects FHOTD? That would force me to follow through if I thought someone was waiting for my progress reports.
I’d so love to be able to take part in this. Unfortunately I’m not one who answered they’d be comfortable with doing it. Where I work, I help the yard owner look after, train and exercise the small ponies she buys to bring on and sell. Through this, I’ve gotten quite a bit of experience, but I’m young, and have nowhere near enough experience to do it on my own, or even without a LOT of help.
I have, however already been soley responsible (under supervision) for riding one pony that has now been sold on to a good home. I took her on her first quiet hacks, got her used to everything (barring pushchairs – that was an issue), introduced her to poles and tiny jumps, and broke the bad habits she had of pawing for attention and barging out of the sand school gate.
Right now, we’re working on another pony, Rupert (mentioned previously). We’ve already stopped a kicking problem, and his biting is almost done with. Since my friend left our stables, I’m the only one light enough to ride him and do so whenever I can (that is, when he learns to stop injuring himslef). My aim is to help him enough that eh can be sold to a good showing home with an experienced kid, as he’s a flashy pony and loves jumping.
In short, I’m the one that gets put on the little ponies too feisty for kids! Rupert’s a fun little guy. I guess my challenge is to take him on more hacks, work on the ‘bombproofing’, get him jumping again (hasn’t been done since my friend left and gave up riding him) and get him sold!
Norski, you can post the pictures on the message board. I’m about to put the link into the blog header so you’ll all be able to find it.
The whole time the poll was up, I could not see the daily blog.
ChromeCowgirl:
Oddly enough, I do a lot better when I am riding than when I am working on the ground, though some of that may just be the horses I ride. The mare I ride is an angel under saddle, but on the ground, her herd-boundness and other insecurity can cause a lot of problems. She does not, however, kick, bite, rear, shove, or anything like that. She will occasionally do little teeny tiny bucks if she’s feeling really good. She spooks occasionally, but luckily as soon as she’s leapt 10 feet sideways, she forgets what she was spooking at and stops.
It took me the whole summer, but I now can:
1. successfully put her in cross-ties
2. put on her bridle (most of the time… she is fine with getting the bit put in her mouth, but tends to toss her head a lot while one’s fastening the noseband and throatlatch.)
3. get on her without having someone holding her. She usually takes one or two steps, but halts when I ask her to. When I started riding her, she was one of those “land in the saddle and get your feet situated quickly, then keep walking her in tiny circles until she calms down” sorts.
I also learned the use of a chain over the nose when leading her; her owner, who’s an experienced horsewoman, doesn’t need it, but for me it provides that little extra edge I need when the mare is being silly. She *will* listen to pain.
*IF* my physician releases me to ride again… I’ll try to get my cranky ass mustang mare back into competative mode.
How can those of us who can’t start horses help? I think the core notion is excellent, and would participate if I could. But I am not the right person to be messing with green horses. Donation to rescue? Pay for a lesson for someone’s baby? Ideas would be appreciated – I’m drawing a blank.
I’m in college and don’t have the means to acquire anything to break on my own. I have however volunteered to continue the training of a green broke 3 y.o. The owner just started riding and has no idea what she’s doing. It’s a match made in hell, so hopefully I can help them both and he won’t end up a neglected pasture ornament, or on a truck to mexico.
It’s the best I can do.
Koodoes! (I have no idea how to spell that) I’m sure there will be almost as many excuses as there are trainers. I know I’ve got my share (of excuses). But it’s anexcelent challenge to get us all thinking anyway. And hopefully there will be at least some horses that are helpend and therefore marketable in their future.
This is a great idea.
I have a meeting with the head of my local equine rescue next weekend to get my “assignment.” It will most likely be one of the untouched Quarabs in my area that pop up all over the place because every redneck within a 300 mile radius has a purty Ay-rab mare they want to breed to Jim Bob’s Quarter Hoss stud in yonder pasture.
For those who don’t feel comfortable training a greenie: rescues need SO MUCH apart from training! Volunteer to do barn work in a rehab stable, donate tack and stable supplies you’re not using, or–even better–raise the funds to sponsor the services of a professional trainer who CAN train a greenie for a rescue organization.
hey, I started this a couple weeks ago, but you can count my projects in if you like. I’m working on 4 horses in between my day job that pays for my horse habit.
If anyone wants a project horse in eastern ohio, let me know. One of my biggest problem is getting saddle time on these horses.
i’m looking around for a project now…
Re contracts and follow-up – good on you! Most of the horses I sell have ended up a looooong way away from me and while I have endeavoured to keep in touch with email, actually visiting hasn’t been an option. I have just had to trust my instincts on meeting the person.
Actually I wish I could trace backwards with some of the horses I own – mostly so I could tell some previous owners precisely what I think of them!
Sale contracts are just starting to become more common here, but more to protect the seller than to ensure the welfare of the horse.
To all the people who said they have a horse with trust issues – you actually have a horse with respect issues. Take a look at the herd structure in your paddocks – the lead mare is trusted to make decisions and they look to her (generally a mare, not always) for how to behave. If she freaks, they all freak. If she looks at something and goes back to grazing, they all settle quickly.
You need to be that lead mare – and you don’t do that by trying to earn trust, you do it by earning respect. Once you are accepted as lead horse, the horse who lacks confidence will magically start to ‘trust’ you because in horse language, trust goes hand in hand with respect. You can’t have trust without first earning (or in some cases demanding) respect.
Ok, opinionated mode off!
I’m actually working on such a project right now. I’m looking to put a few months on a 14-year-old, barely-broke-to-lead QH gelding that resides with a neighbor.
Unfortunately, getting permission from his actual owner is turning out to be quite an obstacle. The woman has seen her horse in god knows how long, and I wonder if she even remembers that she has one.
I and the neighbors who take care of him have been unsuccessfully trying to contact her.
Ehh, hopefully we can get something together.
I also just found a rescue/rehab organisation in our county, so I’ll also offer myself to them.
I think that this is a marvelous idea.
‘the woman has seen her horse in god knows how long’
should be “hasn’t seen her horse”
Hey FHOTD,
Does my newly acquired draftosaurus count? I did intend to break her before this challenge, but I purchased her SPECIFICALLY because she had never been handled in all her three years of life and otherwise would have just been a baby making machine in a farmer’s pasture.
She has the added bonus of absolutely no handling so we’re still working on things like “whoa”, and standing still while we are grooming and don’t even think about picking up her feet!
So can I use her to count? Pretty please? *bats eyelashes*
I would love some “tips” “help” “assistance” with my new colt! He lets me brush him all over and pick up his feet. He is gentle. He is very young.
I will bring him to my place in a couple of weeks.
Anyone in Ohio out there?
. . . continued
The colt will be my project horse.
May I ask for advice…?
Do I count? I backed my WB in December (first horse I had backed myself, I have only had OTTTBs before that) and then let him out for six months. I started him again under saddle at the end of July and we are currently hacking twice a week and doing light schooling twice a week.
It’s very exciting
PS just to suck up to FHOTD, said baby was gelded in December too
And no, he’s not fugly, he’s just not stallion material
I love the idea, unfortunately I am not one of those that checked that particular box in the poll! But if I was, I would love to have been in on this one. I wish I could do something to help. Maybe I could just decide to volunteer with my local horse rescue group, I can exercise, groom, feed, etc…. what a great idea! I will give them a call tomorrow and ask if they would like some extra help around the barn. Thanks for giving me the idea!!
*Breeders should be willing to take back any of their horses in jeopardy in the future, if they are informed of the situation and have the opportunity to intervene
*Breeders should screen buyers and attempt to ensure they are selling to a reasonably knowledgeable home that can afford the horse
*Breeders should be actively involved in showing or otherwise competing with some of their horses to increase the overall desirability of their horses to buyers
*Breeders should offer assistance to buyers even after the purchase – free advice on care and nutrition, recommendations for trainers and lessons if needed
I’m relatively new to the horse world (been riding a while but don’t own my own), but I know that the above points (taken from the poll) are things you automatically look for when choosing a breeder for a dog. They’re part of the definition of a “good” and “reputable” breeder. Having never been in the market for a horse, are these points unusual? I mean, is it unlikely that a breeder would want the horse back if you couldn’t properly keep it anymore? Or wouldn’t be available to answer questions? This is the least one looks for when choosing a breeder for a dog, why wouldn’t they be for the much larger expense of a horse? Like I said, I’ve never bought a horse, so I don’t know.
Well, I’m kinda already on my fifth fugly this year. Three have already been rehomed at a great expense to me, but their new owner’s are thrilled with their new additions. The fourth is doing lessons at my barn at the moment, and number five is just learning that being caught means comming in to eat. Do these count? I only took those with good enough legs to hold up to the demands. Does that still count?
I am currently starting my own 2 year old gelding. We’ve done a lot of ground work and I’m going to step up the pace once the heat of summer is past. He’s too young to back. That will be next fall.
I’ll keep an eye out for a horse I can help. I’d consider volunteering at a rescue but the only one I know of is way too far to drive to on a regular basis.
I also have a 25 year old gelding that I still ride. He’s family. He’ll be here forever. But once he retires, the 2 year old will be my riding horse.
Here’s a question… other than lameness issues, how do you decide when to retire them?
We’re up to our eyeballs, were breaking a 3 year old ‘failed’ broodmare when she dropped a foal on us…
Next year we gotta carry on where we left off, and no sooner than she’s finished, we got the baby to break as well!
No WAY will either of them touch the market unbroken though!
I currently have one 17 year old, ex-broodmare Standardbred in training (just started under saddle in June), one 14 year old, off the track Standardbred gelding, and a 10 year old, Standardbred gelding I previously broke and adopted out (whose adoptors did not get a trainer to finish his training as I was promised) all in training right now. The two geldings are looking for life long homes. They are both broke w/t and need work on their balence and leads at the canter. Both have been trail ridden and the 10 year old has been shown. Both have a lot of potential with the right rider and trainer. They come with adoption contracts and will be checked up on every 6 months. References will be required. If your interested please see http://hometown.aol.com/magicishorses/BeckwithStables.html. Because of past experiances, I am also now requiring that adopters be experianced riders. I don’t care if you have the best trainer in the world, if you don’t get them out, the horse will never be trained and will never do anything. I’d like to see both horses used for and accomplish something, even if they just help raise a large donation for the St Judes Saddle Up Trail Ride. That would be a great accomplishment!