Just one more foal…
Sep 04 2007
A reader alerted me to a web site detailing, in graphic detail, a mare who was bred just one more time after she suffered “dropped pasterns” (aka DSLD) with her third foal. These folks claim two vets told them it was just fine to breed her again. Given the lack of consistent knowledge about DSLD, that is certainly possible, but at some point, one expects common sense would kick in. If a mare develops severe complications during pregnancy, doesn’t common sense dictate that you find something else to do with her other than use her as a baby machine? But no! These folks just HAD to breed her to their black and white tobiano just one more time. She had the misfortune to be a tall Thoroughbred and they were trying to add some elegance to their beef cow tobiano halter horse’s foals.
They’ve taken their web site down (probably wise) but thanks to archive.org you can still read the story in all of its horror, complete with graphic photographs. Basically they kept their mare, who hurt too badly to eat and was losing weight throughout, hanging in a sling for months in order to get the baby.They brag they are “dedicated to offering our clients first rate service backed by the latest technological innovations.” Perhaps that explains this scenario, which looks like something out of a bad sci fi movie. Do you really think that quilts and wraps can do anything when both tendons have ruptured? I don’t think full leg casts could have kept this mare even remotely comfortable.
149 comments to “Just one more foal…”
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That poor mare. The vet probably meant she COULD breed, not that she SHOULD be bred. Why doesn’t this count as animal cruelty?
The “pasture” in the picture looks more like a mud hole. What an unhappy looking mare. This is not the movie “Dreamer” where everything is all great and your horse craps rainbows.
I’m glad she was put down. It’s a shame she had to suffer what she did. The birth of the foal is a miracle. By that I mean it’s a miracle people could be that damned stupid.
Special needs kid? Do I look like I care? Nope. I volunteered at a theraputic horsemanship barn that helped people with physical and mental handicapped people. Did their families whine about it and beg for attention? No!
I’m hoping these people (if they can be called “people”) are out of the breeding business for good.
They’re disgusting.
shovels said, “If I ordered a shipment of “stud in stick”, how would you know if my mare is good enough?”
Without seeing the mare in person, a video, good photos, pedigree, performance/production record, and the opinion of an impartial person who can see the mare in the flesh will have to suffice. If those aren’t good enough to judge the quality of a mare, then we don’t breed. I’ve purchased horses on less than that and got what I was expecting.
Wow. You can even tell in that pic that her legs are shot. Her “off” hind fetlock looks like its resting on the ground. Poor baby. Those people need to rot in hell. I agree with FHOTD, they need their Achilles’ slashed. In like 10 different places.
Fug,
My mares have always been approved (good for me, no fugs?), but how do they know what they get sent is the actual mare that gets the stick?
Hmm, maybe I should take a “more better readin comprehensin”, I thought the mare blew out just a bit prior to due date. If it were dragged on, that’s mean – plus a growing foal is getting doped up, not so good. If it were at the end, a few days doped and a sluggish baby, but no permanent damage (I can’t see how it’s that much different from Barbo, then). Don’t know enough about it, hopefully will never have to learn much about it, either. I’ll just shut-up then and go back out and train my own horses (don’t even have time for them, let alone someone else’s plug that they’ll just throw away the training on after a week – your fault, with this dang blog!).
“Without seeing the mare in person, a video, good photos, pedigree, performance/production record, and the opinion of an impartial person who can see the mare in the flesh will have to suffice. If those aren’t good enough to judge the quality of a mare, then we don’t breed. I’ve purchased horses on less than that and got what I was expecting. “
I bow to you, thank you.
These people need to be run over by the Karma Train! I can not believe they found a Vet to go along with this.
How long will it take for the key board dents in my forehead to go down?
shovels, do you have anything that can be added to the mare approval criteria? New ideas are always welcome!
whoever it was hat said ‘stud in stick’–I loe it–gonna remember that one. And kirri, I’d like to point out that at the end of my life, most likely, and many other people’s, I am going to be falling apart, losing my mind, in pain, unable to feed myself or control bodily functions, and though the doctor can’t kill me like I might wish, they can do their best to keep me comfortable and I will probably be thankful. I am thankful we can do better for our animals, but as is very obvious, not all owners seem to think that animals have the same capacity fo pain that we do. We can talk until blue in the face and it won’t change a thing. How are we ‘doing no harm’ if we leave the animal to suffer at the hands of their wonderful owners? I’d like you to tell me that. Most organizations cannot legally seize an animal unless there is an extreme amount of abuse and neglect and even then most still have no jurisdiction, no money, no personnel, and no facilities. I have seen several reports that just went by the wayside. People just don’t care or don’t have the resources. Can’t you understand that our obligation is to do the best for the animal as it is? and that passing the buck only further harms the animal? this is my last comment on the subject so you can continue in your opinion as I will in mine.
That’s just absolutely sick.
Completely off topic again, sorry. But check out this TB mare, look at the front end of this one, what a great lesson in BAD conformation
http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1188920649
look, nobody outright SAYS to their vet ‘we dont care how much the horse suffers, were gonna do it anyway’, even when the vet can plainly see that is the situation that is occurring before their eyes. they also dont tell the vet that Dear Bessie will be on the kill truck the moment were done with her while theyre bleating ‘save her, money is no object!’ the fact is it is not appropriate for a vet to allow their personal judgement or feelings to become involved in their treatment and if they withdraw care on ethical grounds the owners will simply find some other vet without the same moral standards.. or worse, leave the animal with no care whatsoever.
i doubt many vets would say ‘let her go, she is VALUELESS’ because they meet people every day for whom their animals constitute such a significant emotional value that no price is too much to pay. how is a vet to play judge and jury on whether or not that love is genuine, and HOW that love should be expressed – by merciful euthanasia or by ‘save at all costs’?
just like people blaming lawyers instead of the clients who feed them cases, its misdirected – in a service industry you need to be careful attempting to fault someone for providing what their client wants and will pay for.
in an ideal world their vet could and would have told them they were way off the moral playing field and into the cruelty zone; in an ideal world they would have listened, learned and done the right thing as expressed by an expert. sadly, this is NOT that world.
Words fail me except to say that I hope there is a special place in hell for these people AND the vet who enabled them to torture this poor mare to death. And for what? Another basically useless not very attractive or quality horse they could have bought 20 or so for the same price.
I can see them (IF what they say was true) breeding her (well its a given that none of those horses NEEDED to be bred!) but once the tendons ruptured there was NO EXCUSE not to put that poor mare down. I hope to God they are out of the horse world.
Those goddamned people will probably go pick themselves up another mare and be back in the breeding business in no time.
People like this don’t care about the torture, the horror, of what they do.
I suggest tar and a liberal assortment of feathers.
RDM
It looks to me like “save at all costs” gone gross. This was exceedingly cruel treatment but I don’t buy the analysis that it was just one more foal. I think it was more of “I’ll have something of my mare to live on”. Didn’t I read this was a third generation horse for this owner?
I think this was more of an inability of the owner to let go not greed. More abuse of animals comes from misplaced emotional investment then from greed at least among non professionals. Nothing excuses this owner but I think that a lot of you are putting gen X values to someone not of that generation.
just to think they do similar things to humans, what a crazy world we live in.
As someone who was actually close to this case I can say that she was by NO MEANS told it was ok to breed this mare. She was told exactly what may happen if she did breed and did so anyway. She may have gotten a second opinion, but that is questionable. She is very good at taking one thing said and making a whole case out of it. Care was given to the mare after she was bred simply for the sake of the mare. Veterinarians come under fire for these cases all the time. Were Tui’s last months excrutating? Most likely. Would it have been worse without Vet care? Absolutely. Kathy made it clear that if the mare wasn’t kept alive with vet help, she would do it without. Which is worse? I say, yes the vet did help prolong this suffering, but he made the horse much more comfortable in the long run than if he had refused to do anything. And By the way, the Dr mentioned on this website has an excellent reputation in this area. He may be a bit expensive but he is an Awesome Dr.
FortheBreed,
You seem to have it down, I just wondered how such things could be done nowdays with all the “fixes” that can be done.
Only thing I can think of is HUGE advertised fees, then the “real” deal. At least some of them would think twice before even taking your time.
Have you ever had someone who insisted you breed their mare or they’d sue? This happened to someone I know, because it’s an advertised fee, supposidly they were under obligation to breed whatever came by with cash in hand.
Never did understand the ones who charge more for a decent mare, yet will cut the fee in half for a plug.
By the way, do you have a link? I think you posted it a while back, but if it’s over 2 days, well, duh wha (senility sucks).
jstPam, any hints on blodlines/names/trainers so I can try to guess who you are? Animal, vegetable, or mineral?
“More abuse of animals comes from misplaced emotional investment then from greed at least among non professionals.”
Agreed.
Think of all the Americans who equate food with love, and feed their poor dogs and cats to an early pancreatitis/heart disease death.
These people seem to have been deeply into a delusional state of thought, with their egos wrapped up in a “heroics equals love” type of mind-set.
A very insidious form of abuse and cruelty. And one we’d have no good statistics on, of course.
Any reporting party would have in all probability been sorely disappointed as I can’t see any legal action being taken to seize the poor mare.
I sent them an e-mail, basically telling them that they should be ashamed of themselves, how discusting it was to post that on the net, and how any vet in their right mind would’ve suggested putting her down. Greedy, selfish people they are!
Those pics brought tears to my eyes. I am horrified!
There’s a vet out there that went along with this nutty behavior!
heheheh i just noticed bluewillows comment… but but but SHIFT KEY BAD!!!
lifelong desk enslaved paralegal status has rendered correct punctuation and hygienic keyboarding habits into PTSD (Pissed-off Traumatised Secretary’s Disorder) triggers for me!
but look i just did babysteps. i think i’ve grown. apostrophes too! touch the shift key lifelike… tooouuuch it! *squeals*
That was just horrible! Can’t believe one can make her go through that just to get that foal to sell…
back on topic… i think ‘save at all costs’ as a theory sounds like love, it does seem selfless.
but just LOOK at her! *heart wrenches*
i will admit, i once was one of those ‘do ANYthing just SAVE HIM’ people. when i was a teenager. then my sisters (really a longtime family horse) TB had an accidental fall under saddle resulting in a partial vertical fracture to the humerus. as far as breaks go it was actually on the milder side and the vet was realistic yet optimistic about his recovery.
i was all full of ‘SAVE HIM!! do ANYTHING!! well find the money.. ill work, i wont eat, ill sell my body on the street, just dont let him die!!’
then my mum took me to see him, and i looked, really looked at him. he had an inch long sliver of bone sticking out of a small open wound in his forearm. he was shaking and sweating in pain despite having been given the maximum safe dosage of anesthetic and sedative intravenously. each dose intended to last eight hours, he was getting relief for only about 5 before his pain returned. he trembled in actual terror when we, his trusted, lifetime humans, came near to touch him, to hurt and frighten him more in the name of ‘helping’.
vet said he would be ‘something like this’ for a week, then would improve and with stall rest make a full recovery. we tried to ‘help’ him for nearly two days… but it was WRONG. of course we couldnt soothe him by explaining why he hurt, that it would stop soon, that he had to be brave. he made it very clear that he was so, so scared and every minute was another sixty seconds he couldnt take, didnt want. so we let him go.
it broke the hearts of all my family, makes me tear up even now. my totally non horsey parents who couldnt understand their daughters passion for smelly dumb beasts both cried knowing that his end had been so ugly, that we could not take his suffering away for love nor money and that for almost two days we had chased what WE wanted rather than just listening to what he did.
im certain everyone here has a similar story, the memory of a beloved friend whose loss tore them irreparably. but perhaps the strongest part of our love for animals is in the demonstration that we owe them grace, selflessly.
ps – i am now a ‘tell me the SECOND you want out of this life, and i will NOT fail you’ person.
The owners consulted 2 different veterinarians and did their own research and the vets gave the ok. That is what we hire professionals for-to give us their best educated assumption. The vets were wrong. The people posted the site in an effort to educate others to what can happen. Pity the mare but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Oh, please. You have to be able to look into those eyes and know that mare should have been put down a long time ago.
The owner admits that she knew the mare had to be put down after baby was on the ground. Why not just euthanize her before? I think if the vets okayed this, then they were WRONG. Period. This mare was a horsey incumbator and NOTHING more. I don’t care how much they “cared” about her. No one in their right mind would get her pregnant if they “cared”. Maybe they would keep her around longer than needed, but they wouldn’t have bred her certainly.
Human doctors can drop or “fire” patients who do not follow their advice or treatment plans. I’m sure vets can do the same. I know if I were a vet and this situation were presented to me I would’ve strongly urged euthanasia and if they persisted in keeping this poor creature alive to drop a foal I would’ve dropped them like a bad habit. Disgusting greedy sick behavior.
wow, that horse looks shockingly tired and in pain, she should have been put down.In saying that l have to admit to having seen 2 other horses in similar situations, one a 2 yr old AAA filly who’s hoof was almost tore off by dogs that caused a few vets get together in the hopes of performing a miracle(didnt happen) after 9 weeks of many operations and differing treatments the decision was made to put her down.while l applaud the vets in keeping her pain free and she didnt lose weight l think their motive was wrong as they were hoping to prove something in regard to microsurgery on horses so she was an experiment.Yes l lost her in the end BUT l would have prefered that she was put down immediately(due to my youth l allowed them to talk me round).The other was a friends mare who 2 seasons ago with less than a month to go her stomach muscles collapsed the vets organised a sling much like the other the horse on the blog is in but after a week realised that the sling was going to cause many more problems that it solved such as colic etc.They then organised some kind of belt thingy that held her stomach up being attached to her withers croup area.She was very good about it and gave birth without any problems and is now retired(top show producer) from breeding forever.The owners were not really concerned with the loss of the foal as much as the loss of one of the most wonderful mares they have ever owned.Lucky for them they have both and the vets learned a valuable lesson in caring for a mare with such a problem.I cant say that it’s right and you have to be prepared to know when enough is enough but we must also remember that without trying something we will never know just how much we can or cant help an animal.Personally l wouldnt have put that mare through the pain we can visibly see she has suffered just to have her put down for a 2 bit foal who probably doesnt have much future anyway.BUT we must remember science ok so l am going to refrain from calling the owners names because l dont know just how selfish the vet may have been in wanting to know if he/she can play god or not(it happens) maybe everyone else should look at it from that point also?
Regards to all
This post was the last straw that made me create an account. How can you POSSIBLY think it is a good idea to breed something like that under those conditions. That poor mare. How were these people not reported? How the HELL did a vet say it was “Okay”. This makes me reconsider future career decisions to “Large Animal Vet.” I mean honestly, even a completely ignorant person with half a brain (or half a heart?) would have that mare put down.
Rant over. But I am still seething.
I just wanted to add that I had a mare rupture a tendon on a back leg, accident, not DSLD, to this day, I don’t know what happened, but that’s not the point…
she was 6 month pregnant;
on that same day, we had a plaster cast on her leg, transported her to a vet hospital, anesthetised her to see the damage;
vets found it was too difficult to repair, especially as she was pregnant and would only increase in size; we thought keeping her alive in those conditions was too hard on her, and she was euthanised on the table while still under anesthesia;
her other leg was fine, she was perfectly sound, and that foal was much more valuable than this one…
so this just makes me so sick, how selfish can you get ?
4thehorses said…
Completely off topic again, sorry. But check out this TB mare, look at the front end of this one, what a great lesson in BAD conformation
http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1188920649
Where’s her neck?
shovels said…
FortheBreed,
You seem to have it down, I just wondered how such things could be done nowdays with all the “fixes” that can be done.
Only thing I can think of is HUGE advertised fees, then the “real” deal. At least some of them would think twice before even taking your time.
Have you ever had someone who insisted you breed their mare or they’d sue? This happened to someone I know, because it’s an advertised fee, supposidly they were under obligation to breed whatever came by with cash in hand.
Never did understand the ones who charge more for a decent mare, yet will cut the fee in half for a plug.
By the way, do you have a link? I think you posted it a while back, but if it’s over 2 days, well, duh wha (senility sucks).
Oh, I’m sure there are “enhancements” made to many photos. But a pedigree or performance/production record doesn’t lie too much. I think we have to be decent judges of character of those people in order for things to go smoothly. So far, I’ve had no problems. My horse’s stud fee is $750, quite a bit for an unshown Paint horse. That fee was set for two reasons. First, it’s not worth it to me to collect and ship for less. Second, I feel my horse is worth it, regardless of a lack of performance record. Those who don’t recognize quality aren’t going to be the ones to promote the foals anyway.
While I have a stated advertised fee, I also state, “approved registered TB, QH and Paint mares only”. There are no exceptions for anyone. And the fee is the same to all approved mares. No link to a website yet, although I’ve posted photos of my stallion, my mares, and all of his foals so far; the website is being redesigned as we speak. New stallion photos, and photos of mares and foals will be there. I’ll post it in my profile when it’s completed.
I don’t know if I feel like throwing up or crying. That poor, poor mare.
Reminds me of a mare I read about years and years ago, Karen Chex. Anyone else familiar with her story, about how they amputated one of her legs and made her a prosthetic one?
While she was a MUCH MUCH higher quality mare, and they bred her to nothing but the cream of the crop when it comes to stallions, AND they at least knew when it was time to say goodbye… it’s a similar situation in that a lame mare was obliged to carry a foal.
But that is where the similarities end.
This mare should NEVER HAVE BEEN BRED if she had DSLD/dropped pasterns as it is A GENETIC DISORDER. I don’t care HOW SENTIMENTALLY ATTACHED THOSE FOOL IDIOT OWNERS ARE. Obviously she wasn’t broke to ride (much) or shown or had anything done with her besides plonking out a foal for them over and over again.
I hope that vet bill was HUGE, and I know that no amount of monetary suffering could come close to what you put that poor mare through. Trying to ‘save the foal’ is NO FUCKING EXCUSE, IDIOTS!
What do you bet we see this same breeder breeding that foal she spent so much money on to ‘try and keep this precious blood of her old mare alive’… which is code for ‘trying to recoup some of the enormous monetary losses we experienced by her unnatural pregnancy and birth’…
Hopefully they learned their lesson, even if it was at the expense of that poor mare.
DON’T BREED GENETIC DEFECTS!!
P.S. – WTF is the ‘Tobiano World Show’??? I can only imagine a show for all the pathetically heinous homozygous tobianos out there… *barf*
Oh, that makes me feel sick. Who ARE these people that do this?
Oh for crying out loud said, “What do you bet we see this same breeder breeding that foal she spent so much money on to ‘try and keep this precious blood of her old mare alive’… which is code for ‘trying to recoup some of the enormous monetary losses we experienced by her unnatural pregnancy and birth’… “
They already did. That mare has a registered APHA foal.
this pissed me off so badly i was shaking!
sickening… absolutely fucking sickening.
And BTW, I did not misdirect my comment towards the vet in this case; there were several options that the vet had; flat out if he gave his expertise and the owners did not like what they had to hear, the vet could have refused his services any further, and I’m sure that the vet could have reported these people. I’d be torn up a little if I was the vet who picked up this case, but as extreme as this case is, there were far better options for this mare and in the end, it was her owners who would have to make that ultimate decision.
I went to their website and they have photos of themselves posted. What this says to me is, “Hey, look at me. See how wonderful I am because I’m taking care of this poor horse in a sling, blah, blah, blah…” It’s like they have the “Munchausen by Proxy” disorder but instead of it being directed at their kids, it’s directed at their horses. I hope I am wrong and that these folks are just ignorant and extremely misguided. Either way, it is a death sentence to their horses.
That’s one mare that won’t be waiting for her loving owners at the Rainbow bridge. How sad that people like this exist.
These people are sick and retarded. Did you read how many health problems their black and white spotted “Mira-cull” has/had? Sure seems worth giving this mare weeks of agony. I agree, not even a son-of-Barbaro would have convinced me to keep this mare alive when her LEGS EXPLODED! Never mind, “oh in hindsight we wouldn’t have bred her the fourth time”. You can see the progression in her hind pasterns from the photos they posted of her with each of the foals. They were already going for shit with #3. Why risk it? Of course, I’m sure this woman would gladly carry a baby with casts on both her legs for a month. Not that I’m trying to make a comparison between horses and humans…but Christ – brain up already! And don’t brag about your stupidity on the friggin’ internet!
HOLY CRAP.
I can’t believe they put the mare through all that when there was no chance she would ever be sound again.
I mean, I would think long and hard about putting any horse through that even if s/he had a 90% chance of being pasture sound and happily eating carrots over the fence for two decades after all of the treatment. Of course, I wouldn’t have to LIMIT THE PAIN MEDS FOR THE SAKE OF THE BABY, either.
And for that piece of crap pinto fug? Barf.
Perhaps the owners of this unfortunate mare needed something to make their lives meaningful…cause harm to an animal then attempt to save it.
Most vets would tell you to forget it. Maybe this vet needed to practice on something…
Do no harm–does that apply to animals?
What a horrifying story, and what horrible horrible people, to do those things to that mare!
UUUMMMMM,Can anyone say arrest warrant for cruelty to animals???And these people are allowed to stay in the horse business because…….
ugh – this is sickening. People like this make me want to puke twice and die.
DEAR GOD. Those pictures … need i say more?
Heck what the heck just get some free mares and breed them to whatever it is in your barn… There is a farm up by my house that takes in or gets “free horses” or cheap… stallions and mares… they will not take anything that cannot reproduce/ foals are so cute… They own 3 paint studs, 1 QH stud, two appaloosas, two mixed breed studs.. they breed to QHs, Percherons, Arabians, Grades, and appy mares.. They also have minis too… They have over 40 horses and third of their stock are bred to something. more than half the herd is not registered.
They do not sell or give away anything. Just raises foals (cuz they are so cute)…. I would love to have two or three of their horses to show and have fun with.. Again they dont sell or give away any…
they are well taken care of as in food wise… otherwise than that, they are wild and dont get farrier and vet care.
The woman and man that has this farm is in their late 50′s early 60′s// they should start thinking about the what ifs…