A video of a mare having a HYPP attack
Aug 24 2007
I have discussed the HYPP problem in Quarter Horses and horses with QH blood here in the past. However, today I found a video that I need to pass along as well…in case anybody is reading this and thinking, oh, I will try to breed my N/H horse, the baby has a 50% chance of being normal, I bet I’ll be lucky!
I warn you, the video is upsetting. The horse does not die and is standing up after being treated at the end, but it is still very hard to watch.
Again, for anybody who did not get the memo, not all Impressive horses have this problem. It is only carried by horses who test N/H or H/H. There are many excellent horses with Impressive in their pedigree – but it’s important to choose ONLY the ones with a clean N/N test result for breeding (and for riding, as far as I’m concerned – I sure wouldn’t want to take a header off one having an attack!)
189 comments to “A video of a mare having a HYPP attack”
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I don’t believe either is CAUSED by linebreeding or inbreeding, but they have spread like wildfire BECAUSE of duplication of their sources in many pedigrees.
*nods enthusiastically*
Too many people don’t get that you can breed FOR something just like you can breed AWAY from something. So many people say they want a grade horse or mutt dog because of a belief that those animals will be inherently healthier, which isn’t necessarily true. One does have to fond a breeder that know what s/he is doing, though, and who has health and soundness as priorities over a particular “look” (or even over short term performance goals). The most stellar specimen of a breed in appearance or performance is ultimately less stellar if it doesn’t have its health, and useless if it’s dead.
Farmer’s wife – yes I intend to be at nationals this year. I wouldn’t miss it for the world! In fact it’s only August and I already can’t wait. I also can’t wait to see the fairgrounds I have heard that they look great! I know that they are pouring a lot of money into them.
Citydog said: “One does have to fond a breeder that know what s/he is doing, though, and who has health and soundness as priorities over a particular “look”.”
I am dealing with this right now. I have a breed of dog that is riddled with health problems. So far my dog has none of the health problems prevalent in the breed. She does however have an incorrect set to her ears. That makes her not “show quality” but she is otherwise an exemplary animal. Should I breed her knowing I am possibly passing on upright ears instead of folded ears and possibly passing on her healthy genes or should I have her spayed and not breed a beautiful dog that does not have health problems but the wrong set to her ears? BTW she is not from a breed you will find in the pound regularily and the breed rescues do not have many of these doag and what they do have are usually the dogs with the health problems not “bad ears”.
CITYDOG, I agree 100%. They say it’s easier to “take it out” than it is to “put it back in”. That may apply to many characteristics, although I’ve have yet put that saying to the test. I guess one could apply that to genetic defects or undesirable characteristics, the latter of which would be difficult to improve upon.
OK…I don’t know much about Quarter Horses, I know Peruvian Horses, but this is an abomination, in my book…
http://www.bertonqh.com/index_
bqh.htm
I’m learning quite a bit about QHs and HYPP on this blog, today. It opened my eyes, to see that the QH community was/is having the same problems we are.
The Peruvian Horse world is having a problem with DSLD/ESPA…a disease that causes a breakdown in the connective tissues of the body of the horse. It’s not breed-specific; it has affected all breeds, but the Peruvian Horse, more so, because the genetic pool is so small. There are only about 30,000 Peruvian Horses in the world, they have been in-bred for centuries. Research for this disease has been on-going for over 20 yrs. It’s suspected to be genetic…and dominant. There is no cure..it is a degenerative disease; just gets worse, never better. One of my Peruvian geldings was diagnosed in 2003. He will eventually have to be put down because his fetlocks will eventually fall, (his pasterns are very long and sloping) touching the ground; or one or more of his vital organs will fail. He was only 7 when diagnosed and had to be retired…he’s now 11 y/o. There are no tests for this disease, as yet. Ultrasounds of the suspensories are all we have, right now. Research is trying to find a DNA marker, but some of the big breeders are trying to stop the research. And they threaten lawsuits if their lines are mentioned.
I agree…it starts with the judges, who award these weak horses to begin with, then these “winners” are considered “champions” and are ultimately bred, only to pass on the genetic problems,and conformational faults to future generations. If this continues, it will eventually mean the demise of the breed.
I’m appalled at what I see being sold, and being bred; and what is appearing in shows. Luckily, my other two Peruvians are strong; neither was bred for shows; they were bred for stength,adn that’s the way it should be.
I applaud this blog…language notwithstanding. You’re providing a great service to the horse community,and to the horses, themselves.
This video has been around for a while, and while it is disturbing, it’s important to remember that people breed these animals by choice. They (generally) know the risk they take, they know the problems incurred with breeding anything besides N/N to N/N. While I don’t condone it, and will never EVER do it myself, If a person wants to gamble with their horse’s life and breed N/H, that’s their business. Not personally what I would do, of course, but heck, to each their own on this…
HOWEVER!
I have seen SO MANY great N/N stallions out there (Statuatory, Jamaican Hottie, The Package, Sirprizeriffic, Mr. Yella Fella to name just a scant few very nice ones), it seems moronic to breed to an animal that has a genetic defect when there are so many available that DON’T have it, y’know?
And finally, I just don’t see it as as huge a problem as HERDA is. For one reason, the HYPP afflicted horses can still go on and lead somewhat normal lives with the help of medication and diet. What do you do with a horse whose skin sloughs off painfully in big sheets all the time???
While I still take issue with the HYPP breeders, it doesn’t really hit home to me as much as the HERDA folks. But that’s just me, of course. They are BOTH bad, to be honest, and I don’t support breeding either.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “If a person wants to gamble with their horse’s life and breed N/H, that’s their business.”
I disagree with this statement, because some of these horses are “disposed” of without papers and consigned to local auctions, where some unsuspecting person might buy them for themselves (or Heaven forbid, their kids). Sometimes they are sold with their papers to folks who don’t know what HYPP is. Granted, they should learn. When it affects others (and the horses), then it is not just “their business”.
forthefutureofthebreed said:
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “If a person wants to gamble with their horse’s life and breed N/H, that’s their business.”
I disagree with this statement, because some of these horses are “disposed” of without papers and consigned to local auctions, where some unsuspecting person might buy them for themselves (or Heaven forbid, their kids). Sometimes they are sold with their papers to folks who don’t know what HYPP is. Granted, they should learn. When it affects others (and the horses), then it is not just “their business”.
I follow you on this, totally.
However, that’s what makes buying a horse without papers a risky business. I know of several people who have found out much much later that their animals they THOUGHT were clear were N/H or even H/H.
Good point.
But like I said, I get more riled up over HERDA myself.
OK… I am not a QH person at all so you can take my comments with a grain of salt, but… I looked at the Berton QH page, and then quarterhorsestallions.com, which is the company that did their website, and has a large number of QH stallions featured.
I just don’t get it. On the Berton page… did any of those stallions have *any* performance record at all? The big ugly one… I can’t imagine riding him. The only one that looked close to a normal size was the one they keep “underweight” because he was injured as a young horse. (And WHY is he a stallion???) Clearly these folks are highly “successful” breeders, but I don’t see the point in QH halter horses, if these are representative.
On quarterhorsestallions.com, they have the horses listed by discipline, so since I do huntseat, I had a look at those stallions. What did I see… lots of Western Pleasure horses masquerading as hunstseat horses. There were a few who actually seemed to have the build one would need for a successful huntseat horse — not downhill, more upright neck carriage for easier collection and movement over jumps, etc. Now, perhaps QHs just shouldn’t be considered on the same level as the other huntseat breeds…
BTW I have ridden some QH hunseat lesson horses over the years, and have generally found them to be sane, willing, and sound, if a bit slow in some cases. I can appreciate QHs for what they are, at least when they are not deformed monsters
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “But like I said, I get more riled up over HERDA myself.
”
I agree there, although those who are afflicted (Hr/Hr) won’t live to breed on. The problem lies with the TOP stallions who are carriers. Those breeders won’t be gelding those stallions any time soon, I’m afraid. There is way too much money involved. (Just like HYPP).
Ann said…
OK… I am not a QH person at all so you can take my comments with a grain of salt, but… I looked at the Berton QH page, and then quarterhorsestallions.com, which is the company that did their website, and has a large number of QH stallions featured.
I just don’t get it. On the Berton page… did any of those stallions have *any* performance record at all? The big ugly one… I can’t imagine riding him. The only one that looked close to a normal size was the one they keep “underweight” because he was injured as a young horse. (And WHY is he a stallion???) Clearly these folks are highly “successful” breeders, but I don’t see the point in QH halter horses, if these are representative.
On quarterhorsestallions.com, they have the horses listed by discipline, so since I do huntseat, I had a look at those stallions. What did I see… lots of Western Pleasure horses masquerading as hunstseat horses. There were a few who actually seemed to have the build one would need for a successful huntseat horse — not downhill, more upright neck carriage for easier collection and movement over jumps, etc. Now, perhaps QHs just shouldn’t be considered on the same level as the other huntseat breeds…
BTW I have ridden some QH hunseat lesson horses over the years, and have generally found them to be sane, willing, and sound, if a bit slow in some cases. I can appreciate QHs for what they are, at least when they are not deformed monsters
Ironic that you say that, there is a relative of Sir Cool Skip, All But Tru, roping and doing well.
http://www.imatruskip.com/_private/olliedennisroping.jpg
Now, I personally wouldn’t use a halter horse for a rope horse if their chest was as big as the horses that are most often winning at breed levels. It’s too hard on their legs, and a lot of them have screwed up front legs to start with.
But it worked with this guy, apparently.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
”
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “But like I said, I get more riled up over HERDA myself.
I agree there, although those who are afflicted (Hr/Hr) won’t live to breed on. The problem lies with the TOP stallions who are carriers. Those breeders won’t be gelding those stallions any time soon, I’m afraid. There is way too much money involved. (Just like HYPP).
Which is (part) of why I absolutely LOATHE Kids Classic Style. He’s EWWW GROSS to me, and that’s just the way I feel. I don’t care how many winners he sires, and what colors they are, they look like toads to me.
@dontyouridenofuglyhorse—-
I’m not sure what the heritability of prick vs fold ears are (although IIRC, ear set is one of the easiest things to breed for), or what the availability of homes for pups with incorrect ear set in your breed might be.
Dunno.
I’m of the “when in doubt don’t breed” sort, but if I had a breed that had a *really* low population and a really high occurrence of health problems, and ended up with a truly stellar dog in all regards but with a conformational flaw that was purely cosmetic, but that wouldn’t effect the ability of the pups who inherited it to be placed in non-show homes (and on S/N contracts), then I’d probably put some performance titles on the dog and maybe consider breeding after I’d tested for everything testable and waited until the dog was old enough to be considered reasonably clear of certain other things ( for example, we have an awful lot of epilepsy in “my” breed, but it tends to show up around age two, so waiting until a dog is four gives a decent window).
For me it would come down to can I honestly better the breed by this breeding, and do right by *all* the pups produced (for life). As a dog person with no desire to ever show in breed, I’d happily take a less typey but healthier dog from a breeder *with a clear plan* who was potentially skipping a generation of breed champions on the way to a better, healthier dog overall.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “Which is (part) of why I absolutely LOATHE Kids Classic Style. He’s EWWW GROSS to me, and that’s just the way I feel. I don’t care how many winners he sires, and what colors they are, they look like toads to me.”
He’s a bit large for a QH, at 1800 lbs and 16.3h, isn’t he? That’s crossing into draft horse territory, imo. Every time I get my Paint Horse Journal or QH Journal, I’m always looking for a new stallion that would fit my eye, and what I’m looking for. I haven’t found any. I did see a yearling halter colt in the Chronicle the other day, sired by the TB, Is It True (by Raja Baba). Surprised the heck out of me that someone is actually doing what I been touting all along. He’s not a bad looking colt, either. His name is De Renzo, HYPP N/N, and he’s at http://www.theperfectoutcross.com
I did see a yearling halter colt in the Chronicle the other day, sired by the TB, Is It True (by Raja Baba). Surprised the heck out of me that someone is actually doing what I been touting all along. He’s not a bad looking colt, either. His name is De Renzo, HYPP N/N, and he’s at http://www.theperfectoutcross.com
Where are his withers? And maybe it’s just the way he’s standing, but his shoulder looks pretty straight to me.
ewwww i just looked up kids classic style… theres actually a video of him ‘moving’ O_O he looks so lame and hobbly, heaving unevenly with each step.. i want to barf!!
i openly admit i am breed prejudiced against QHs, i dont like them and the great majority of them look like that to me… but any other horse moving like that would be considered severely crippled. youd be eliminated and possibly investigated by the FEI bringing a beast like that into a dressage arena.
truly represents the loss of anything useful, beautiful and worthwhile about the horse as a species.
DIANE said, “Where are his withers? And maybe it’s just the way he’s standing, but his shoulder looks pretty straight to me.”
I didn’t pick the colt apart, especially since he’s a yearling right now. I was mostly referring to his type, and being a QH halter horse sired by a Breeders Cup TB. LOL. He’s certainly not fugly.
Just a question, to “you who know”…how much of the beefy halter horses is due to genetics and how much is due to the use of steroids?
Seems if I wanted an Arnold Schwarzenhorse, it’d be pretty easy to pump him up.
DIANE, most of it is genetics, and much of that is HYPP. You can’t pump up a horse that doesn’t have it to begin with.
Ja said: “I can, however, go anywhere and get the language–s, f, d, c, etc-word.
Such a classy blog…the language is a turn-off.”
Then Amber said:
“The title should have been your first clue: Fucking + Ugly = Fugly.”
You know, usually I’m rather demur regarding public swearing (except when a horse is grinding my foot into the earth).However, what I have seen on this blog has me alternating between robust guffaws and profanity so blue that I should just light up a cigar, pop open a bud, start my semi and head down the Big Ed’s Alley Inn…
I’m a Fugly Fanatic.
LIFELIKE001 said, “i openly admit i am breed prejudiced against QHs, i dont like them and the great majority of them look like that to me.”
The majority of QHs don’t look like that. In fact, if you look at some of the QHs with plenty of race blood in them, they are normal sized athletes with good conformation.
ftfotb said: I didn’t pick the colt apart, especially since he’s a yearling right now. I was mostly referring to his type, and being a QH halter horse sired by a Breeders Cup TB. LOL. He’s certainly not fugly.
I don’t have a problem with his breeding (well, actually I do but that’s best left alone). He may be a yearling, but I don’t think he’s going to magically grow withers – either ya got ‘em or ya don’t. Still, if he’s bred to be a halter horse, I guess his lack of withers and straight shoulder won’t make much difference, since he’s probably never going to be ridden anyway.
DIANE, my point was his breeding is very unconventional considering what has been bred for halter up to this point. It’s a step in the right direction, in my opinion. A high class TB with good conformation and a good mind will certainly improve upon the typical type that has been winning at halter (this colt’s mare line).
ftfotb,
I would agree that his type is a vast improvement over the representatives of the halter breeding I’ve seen here and elsewhere.
I just don’t particularly care for him as an individual. He’s not fugly, per se, but I don’t see him as stallion material. Those are two faults I wouldn’t want to see bred on.
I’m with Diane, that colt does nothing for me. It’s extremely upright, straight and it’s head and neck look like they belong to another horse entirely. I know very little about quarter horses, but I hate to see such upright pasterns on anything, halter horse or not, and so little bone on such a big body. Surely that’s a recipe for unsoundness?
Suprised to see so many of these QH babies carrying so much weight. Is OCD not an issue with this breed?
E. LaBrett said…
I found more info on this with google.
http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/VideoInformation.html
To summarise, they tried removing the baby but that got the mare even more upset.
She had another attack later, then another final one that killed her.
Very sad.
****************
It is sad but at least that would be the last foal she’d have. All they had to do was put a halter on the foal and stand there with it in sight but out of range of flailing legs and necks and heads. Oh wait, let me guess, it probably wasn’t halter broke and hadn’t been handled much…
Impressive got his mutation from his dam. Three Bars had nothing to do with it or we’d have had a lot of quaking and dying QHs long before Impressive hit the scene! He was actually race bred but because he came out pretty and double muscled he became the new standard of halter horses.
SO there was a double problem, he had a great number of foals for a QH AND the stock horse tendency for inbreeding concentrated the prevalence of HYPP. Had he been a normal QH stallion who was good but not “great” then he would have had far fewer foals and far less inbreeding to him and people would have probably started avoiding his pedigree like the plague when the foals started to shake and bake under them.
But they won and they still win (along with some help from anabolic steroids and way too much food…) I’ve seen HYPP horses and they don’t HAVE to look like that, although even at a normal weight you can often recognize them by look.
HYPP has probably occurred in other horses and other breeds of stock type BUT those horses were probably weeded out pretty quickly. It occurs in dogs and people too, possibly other animals. It’s just the win at all costs thing that has caused it to become such a problem in horses.
And now the BYB and the “sport horse” (i.e. draft cross and make a breed breeders) are doing their part to spread it to as many breeds or registries as possible. Way to go!
Impressive WAS affected by the way, it was just kept very hush hush.
I looked up Kids Classic Style – you have got to be kidding me! Direct quote from the page “Ask about our HYPP Guarantee!
http://www.kidsclassicstyle.com/
That poor horse can barely waddle in the video. How did he even manage to get those hind feet up? It’s disgusting.
He’s yet another Hear or Borse (horse x bear) only uglier. Poor guy.
The music on the page is annoying, too, but no way to shut it off aside from turning off your speakers.
Their guestbook is nothing but compliments. But who knows, maybe they delete the negatives?
Offtopic – but here’s a horse that just sits with me wrong. QH x TB gone wrong. TB body, QH neck.
http://www.hanesperformancehorses.com/blackskyaffair.html
18hh, please tell me they’re stretching the truth on that one!
His video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6sAtNvrfUE
In the video, the horse occasionally puts his nose behind the vertical and opens his mouth to avoid the bit. The rider posts on the wrong diagonal some of the time.
SUMMERHORSE said, “Impressive got his mutation from his dam. Three Bars had nothing to do with it or we’d have had a lot of quaking and dying QHs long before Impressive hit the scene! He was actually race bred but because he came out pretty and double muscled he became the new standard of halter horses.”
Um, I beg to differ with you on much of this. First of all, Impressive didn’t have “double muscling”. He was no different than any other race-bred QH of that era, in phenotype, or disposition.
You are correct that Three Bar (TB) had nothing to do with it, and the fact that Impressive pretty much changed the halter industry.
And, can you please point me to the link to the scientific article stating that he “got HYPP from his dam”? This one I have to see, as I did the pedigree research for UC Davis during the HYPP research.
The photo to the right is of IMPRESSIVE. I don’t see any “double muscling”, do you? He looked no different than any other Three Bars-bred horse from that time.
Ummmmm……
Admittedly I’m not a “quarter horse” person or anything, but I’m finding the photos and video of these “halter staliions” literally vomit inducing. I honestly think that SOME animal welfare organization should get involved here! These animals are so malformed and almost immobile…..It’s just plain shocking that breeders would do this ON PURPOSE. They are either INCREDIBLY stupid, or just plain VILE human beings!
As with so many other situations when something drastic happens, I have to wonder why the person filming this just stood there and watched this mare have an attack instead of stepping in to help.
“Yay, this is great footage, this might even be better than the 80 year old man being mugged in the parking lot!”
*rolls eyes*
P.S. And I know that someone had be there in person to film that mare, because the footage zooms in several times and there are several different angles to the footage.
Research has shown that the HYPP mutation occurred IN Impressive. He is the first HYPP horse. So something went wrong during meiosis (either in daddy’s sperm cell or mom’s egg). Mutations happen all the time, but most are either fatal or inconsequential. This one happened to change QH breeding for the worse.
As with so many other situations when something drastic happens, I have to wonder why the person filming this just stood there and watched this mare have an attack instead of stepping in to help.
“Yay, this is great footage, this might even be better than the 80 year old man being mugged in the parking lot!”
*rolls eyes*
P.S. And I know that someone had be there in person to film that mare, because the footage zooms in several times and there are several different angles to the footage.
“we would like to note that the attack was seen occuring via a wireless monitor. A handheld cam was set down in the barn to record, sometimes being picked up between times of helping her. There was a lot of the 60 minute video edited out, mostly of her being tended to, comforted and lengthy times of her laying with rigor.”
This is found here:
http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/VideoInformation.html
forthefuture – i think you missed the part where i added “to me”. its a personal taste thing, no biggie.
Drile said…
I looked up Kids Classic Style – you have got to be kidding me! Direct quote from the page “Ask about our HYPP Guarantee!
http://www.kidsclassicstyle.com/
That poor horse can barely waddle in the video. How did he even manage to get those hind feet up? It’s disgusting.
He’s yet another Hear or Borse (horse x bear) only uglier. Poor guy.
The music on the page is annoying, too, but no way to shut it off aside from turning off your speakers.
I agree, I hate webites with music anyway. No matter how good/bad the song is you get tired of it real quick
beautiful_morgans – Especially when you can’t shut it off!
Kind of like the people engaging in the amorous activity in the room above me and the party going on in the room next door. Ahh, the joys of a college dorm!
I’m sorry, I meant beautiful morgan, not beautiful_morgans.
Sorry, I totally blame dyslexia. But the real reason is me just not reading the name properly while seething at all the sound effects going on around me.
Anyway, I think I’m gonna go blare a classical song on repeat – loudly and stick it next to the party wall to drown out their cruddy music.
(Pachelbel’s Canon in D Major, if anyone’s interested. You can also find a nice version of it on YouTube.)
Good thing stupidity is not illegal! If it were there would be a lot of breeders on death row for repeated offenses.
All I can say is, if my stallion moved like Kids Classic Style, and every time it came to a halt, its knees shook like that, I sure as hell wouldn’t be putting video on the web and bragging about it!
As others have said…there are plenty of nice non-HYPP halter horses. Skip Premiere, that nice palomino stud I’ve posted twice – he’s got the beefcake without the long back OR the genetic defect. Now that’s the kind of horse I’d breed to if I wanted a halter horse.
Amber explained this blog perfectly. Nobody said this was Net Nanny Approved. This is my personal snarky opinion blog and I reserve the right to use as much profanity as I feel the subject matter deserves. Don’t like it, apply back button or home button, go elsewhere. Most people here tell me they enjoy the freedom of not being moderated or censored. I know I do.
And yes, a new entry is coming. It is absolutely beautiful out and I was out riding by the light of the full moon…you can’t beat that!
So I’m thinking…if one wants to breed god awful useless quarter horses, the least they can do is breed to an N/N stallion. Patch The Buck comes to mind. He’s N/N and still of the “good eating” variety. *pukes*
Research has shown that the HYPP mutation occurred IN Impressive. He is the first HYPP horse. So something went wrong during meiosis (either in daddy’s sperm cell or mom’s egg). Mutations happen all the time, but most are either fatal or inconsequential. This one happened to change QH breeding for the worse.
****************
Impressive is the first known HYPP horse. There may have been others but unless they were famous (unlikely) they would have been put down and nobody would have ever known about them esp. if they didn’t breed on. They know that Impressive’s mutation did not come from Daddy, they are pretty sure it came from Mom. She did not have it (probably) but it most likely came from her. (they said) I don’t really remember why they came to that conclusion now but it was in an article on HYPP.
I’ve followed the foaling cams of this barn, with the N/N stallion I’ve linked to here:
http://www.kmkpainthorses.com/bearly_a_diamond.htm
She owns and continues to breed to N/H mares, and I just always wonder why. Is there a shortage of N/N mares? If I had a stallion I’d try to do my part to end HYPP immediately and it would start with me. No N/H or H/H mares, period. Do stallion owners just want the stud fee? Some of her N/H mares are like tanks themselves.
Impressive wasn’t double muscled like a cow is (neither are today’s halter horses, those are steroid babies…) but he was the first to REALLY popularize that heavy over muscled halter look which is why he won so much and why his descendants were so popular.
You can take a non HYPP horse, fill him up with steroids, put him on a treadmill (cause you can’t ride him!) and fatten him up like a beef cow and get well, something that looks like a beef cow! You don’t need HYPP to do that. It’s just easier with HYPP.
QHs aren’t my cup of tea. I perfer a lighter horse that can move, lift, and be steady on thier feet. But I do have to admit that my mother owns a Paint mare, who has been tested and is N/N. I rode her in her younger years, and while she was a nice trail mare, she is just too heavy at 14.3H and nearly 1200lbs to do the things I enjoy most.
As for this horrendous disease, I dont get it. Why keep breeding if your potential “champion” will possibly die, or even worse, kill most of its offspring by passing it on?!? I don’t understand the need to make your horse so muscled at such a young age. A while back I worked a Paint mare (solid with mostly QH breeding)that was bought as a 2yr old and “fitted” for halter. As a 7yr old, she was so heavy she had lameness issues, and her head was so messed up that, if you didn’t have a chain on her nose, she would run you over, run away from you, or the best, rear up and buck on the end of the line. I hated riding her because she had such straight “peg” legs, it was hard to sit her at anything more than a walk.
A horse is a horse, but as owners/breeders it is our responsability to take care of, and PREVENT this sort of thing when we can!
SodaPop said…
I’ve followed the foaling cams of this barn, with the N/N stallion I’ve linked to here:
http://www.kmkpainthorses.com/bearly_a_diamond.htm
She owns and continues to breed to N/H mares, and I just always wonder why. Is there a shortage of N/N mares? If I had a stallion I’d try to do my part to end HYPP immediately and it would start with me. No N/H or H/H mares, period. Do stallion owners just want the stud fee? Some of her N/H mares are like tanks themselves.
Many breeders, including some leading breeders have stated that they WANT N/H mares for their N/N stallions. For two reasons. First, they don’t want an H/H foal, and second, they want N/N foals out of those big N/H mares. They feel those N/H mares pass on their mass and cut. I never understood any of it, because what good does it do to win a title with a horse that won’t contribute to the breed if it dies? This tells me it is for the instant win, for the moment, instant gratification, and to hell with the horses.
woochles said…
So I’m thinking…if one wants to breed god awful useless quarter horses, the least they can do is breed to an N/N stallion. Patch The Buck comes to mind. He’s N/N and still of the “good eating” variety. *pukes*
Ugh..
I wouldn’t breed to ANYTHING with a neck that short. No thanks. I’d take ‘too big’ over ‘short neck’ any day of the week.
But heck, that’s just me.
Patch The Buck has had some winners, I won’t deny him that. I just think you have to be VERY CAREFUL with which mares you breed to him.
Yes, I guess its all about the gamble, cross a N/N to an N/H and you have the chance of a N/N foal… maybe the shangri la is the cut and muscle but with the N/N. Some of her N/N mares are built like tanks too so I know they’re out there if its the hefty halter look you’re after… It also makes me curious.. this NN stallion is only a 500.00 stud fee (he seems nice to me), and then that Kid Classic Style monster is N/H and he’s commanding a $3500 dollar fee???? I don’t know much about bloodlines and I’m a just an observer so I’m sure there’s a good reason, but I’d take the NN anyday.
fuglyhorseoftheday said:
Most people here tell me they enjoy the freedom of not being moderated or censored. I know I do.
FREAKIN AYE!
Know what? I LOVE to tell people they have crappy horses.
If I could do it more directly and be sure that my car didn’t explode every time I turned it on or that I didn’t have a pipe bomb thrown in one of my window’s every time I talked about it, I’d put my name and phone number with every post.
LMAO! Yeah, it’s not like that would make friends and influence people, huh? LOL.
SodaPop said…
Yes, I guess its all about the gamble, cross a N/N to an N/H and you have the chance of a N/N foal… maybe the shangri la is the cut and muscle but with the N/N. Some of her N/N mares are built like tanks too so I know they’re out there if its the hefty halter look you’re after… It also makes me curious.. this NN stallion is only a 500.00 stud fee (he seems nice to me), and then that Kid Classic Style monster is N/H and he’s commanding a $3500 dollar fee???? I don’t know much about bloodlines and I’m a just an observer so I’m sure there’s a good reason, but I’d take the NN anyday.
I agree, and it’s a good example of being able to find quality with a smaller breeder. KCS sires winners, but they’re shown, too. He’s been the hot ticket for a couple of years now. Not for me, though.
I like shown horses, but I don’t really care for the ones that win all the time.
is that weird?
I do like The Package, and I do like Mr Yella Fella, to a point… much better than Kids Classic Style or the late Golden Gunslinger. But that’s AGAIN just my opinion, and I don’t raise halter horses.
oh_for_crying_out_loud said…
I like shown horses, but I don’t really care for the ones that win all the time.
is that weird?
I do like The Package, and I do like Mr Yella Fella, to a point… much better than Kids Classic Style or the late Golden Gunslinger. But that’s AGAIN just my opinion, and I don’t raise halter horses.
It’s not weird. I agree with those choices, not so much Mr Yella Fella. He’s another really hot sire and I don’t care for him a whole lot. I like them with more pretty on them. Some of those stallions really need a top quality mare to make good foals, but top quality mares should be the only ones used to begin with.
i looked at that website agian..eww nasty looking studs..they can barely even move! now Statutory looks NICE..he just got the max level of muscling i’d like..PLUS he can actually move! did anybody see him gallop and buck in that video? he looked real nice..and fast..and not restricted by oversized muscling like that Kids classic style..
Not only does Patch the Buck have a VERY short neck, he is just so completely unbalanced I would never consider him. He is long, downhill, has stubby front legs, and a short neck. All that blubber does not make me want to bred to him AT ALL.
I just need to step in here and say i owned a HYPP N/H mare….i bought her as a 2year old not knowing she was HYPP Pos. but that probably wouldnt have changed my decision on her…i had her tested oh well. ive barrel raced her, roped off of her, gave lessons off of her. she has really been my “go to” horse for anyone needing a sane ready for anything mount.
granted i dont agree with H/H horses N/H horses dont bother me that much….its AQHA’s fault they didnt stop it sooner regarless of threats now they have to live with it. if they totally kicked it out i can almost gaurentee APHA and ApHC gaining alot more members….
i dont understand the POINT of all that muscle when its not FOR anything!! like those huge pumped up body builder guys – they dont use the muscle for an actual purpose, just for posing (and making their genitals look spectacularly small by comparison, but i digress).
a dressage horse becomes muscled both from and for intense gymnastic usage of his body. hes like those male gymnasts you see on the rings or the vaulting horse – he got that way through work, and his resulting body permits the continuation of that work.
WHY do you need to look like arnold schwarzasteriods just to stand around in a halter? for a horse, the one thing worse than ugliness is purposelessness.
hey drile, i had similar housemates and ive got a great solution for you: CALYPSO music O_O *nods* trust me, get a three disc harry belafonte greatest hits collection and put it on endless rotation at high volume. its quite honestly the most unsexy sound in the world and NOBODY can maintain an erection to the lyrics “mama look a booboo day!” over and over
“http://www.bertonqh.com/shanes_dam.jpg
Oh dear God. Why? Why? Why do they think that has ANYTHING to pass on to future generations? And yes, it has been bred several times. Poor animal. Poor babies.
Those poor animals. I think we should start a “geld the fugly/stupid humans” campaign. “
AGREED! and WHY on God’s green earth would they put a pic of that FUGLY mare on their stallion’s page? Do they want you to know that, “this is what you COULD get” That mare looks like she’s on the edge a an attack just standing there. UGH!
L
Women who have known hereditary/genetic diseases get pregnant KNOWING they are playing the lottery with their unborn child(ren) … why would we expect a higher level of responsibility from people breeding animals for money?
Free will – common sense = fugly.
Some of the comments are highly critical of the mare owner who made the HYPP video. I would like to point out what a tremendous service she performed by doing so. At one time, I was part of a group who was trying to get the AQHA to stop registering HYPP positive horses. We scouted all over the country to try to find a video of a horse having an HYPP attack. Not even the veterinary schools we contacted could provide such a video. We thought that to properly inform the public about HYPP, a video would be useful as a way to demonstrate that the seizures are not as benign as some HYPP-positive advocates might have one believe.
I copied the video from BringingToLight and posted it on Youtube. Some clueless snot here has said something about my having disabled comments, even though I posted in the description THAT I WAS NOT THE OWNER OF THE MARE AND NOT THE MAKER OF THE VIDEO. I disabled comments because I knew that some clods would get themselves exercised to exhaustion by leaping to such conclusions without reading the descriptive text.
Hypno-Toad said…
http://www.bertonqh.com/shanes_dam.jpg
Oh dear God. Why? Why? Why do they think that has ANYTHING to pass on to future generations? And yes, it has been bred several times. Poor animal. Poor babies.
Those poor animals. I think we should start a “geld the fugly/stupid humans” campaign.
Okay, your opinion of her is obviously clouded by the fact that she’s crippled and very old.
If you read more on her, which I have, she is NOT OVER AT THE KNEES LIKE THAT genetically, she is extremely crippled.
That is a very nice mare from a structural standpoint, and I’d be PROUD to own any of her offspring, as they aren’t generally OVERmuscled, they’re BALANCED and have a LOT to offer the quarter horse halter industry for sure.
While I don’t generally breed navicular horses, she is one that I’m reasonably sure was made that way and not genetically predisposed to it.
Here’s her pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sonnys+red+lace
Read about the mare here:
http://www.ellisquarterhorses.com/legs.htm
and here:
http://ellisquarterhorses.com/news/index.html
forthefutureofthebreed said…
It’s not weird. I agree with those choices, not so much Mr Yella Fella. He’s another really hot sire and I don’t care for him a whole lot. I like them with more pretty on them. Some of those stallions really need a top quality mare to make good foals, but top quality mares should be the only ones used to begin with.
with Fella babies, I’m seeing more bone than is popular with halter horses, which is a huge step in the right direction if you ask me. I’d rather have nice big bones than pretty any day.
but you’re right, he’s missing a lot of the ‘pretty’ that a lot of today’s halter horses have. The Package has it, though they’ve stood him up so far on his toes front and back by odd trimming and shoeing that he looks like he’s on his tiptoes and posty-legged behind. Some pictures he looks this way, others he doesn’t. I know he doesn’t throw it, that’s for sure.
I’m just thrilled to see an N/N stallion of his caliber… the more the better!
BTW, I would like to add that, while I may not always like what Berton Quarter Horses breeds (namely that they bred Nicool Kinman to Kids Classic Style), but I DO like that they are up-front about their horses HYPP status. It’s in bright letters all over the individual horse’s pages, and I think that that is a very good thing.
I like some of what Sir Cool Skip has produced. I’m (sorta) from their general area, and I’ve seen some nice horses by him or related to him go on and have good careers under saddle.
He himself is obviously symptomatic HYPP, or else he wouldn’t look like that in pasture condition.
Most halter horses tend to be over fed when compared to your average horse. We had one at school who was a donation, and we had to keep for a year before we could sell him legally. He ate 4 meals a day with rather large amounts of protein and fat. He was muscled, and huge. He did well at shows with no steriods. He was N/N too. It was just a burden to feed the poor horse.
My own horse is Impressive bred, not by my choice. I bought him from the school at an auction before I saw his papers. He is N/N is halter bred, but looks nothing like the sort compared to todays standard. He is an amazing hunter (not AQHA hunter) and jumps with a great frame. He has a huge stride to him if you ask for it, and I had worked with a dressage trainer with him. She actually told me he’d be great at lower level dressage, however, I don’t ride dressage. I have always been a hunter/jumper. I know he is fugly, and I think he is built like shit. He can however move decent, and frames like a hunter or a stock horse. He is very versitile if you just ask him.
OFCOL – Yup. A friend of mine has a Sir Cool Skip daughter and she’s not extreme looking at all. She’s a beautiful animal, muscled but not to that extreme extent. Of course she’s N/N and was never shot up with steroids or overfed.
Here is a concept…. Maybe if the judges did not place these type of horses, and since it is all about winning, maybe they would not be bred this way. AQHA is trying with the new performance halter classes, but it will be a slow process
I have heard about HYPP and knew the basics about it but that is the first time I’ve ‘seen’ a horse with it. Anyone who would breed horses that might continue that problem is just despicable. Absolutely awful. Thank you for trying to educate people about responsible breeding in general.
the impression i got of berton qh was that they are PROUD of their horses status, not upfront about it. but then they are extremely proud of the okapi-legged, oprah-assed frankenhorse freak colt FHD posted many moons back… remember him? the one i always think of as ‘booty for breakfast’
Quote from Ohforcryingoutloud
“Okay, your opinion of her is obviously clouded by the fact that she’s crippled and very old.
If you read more on her, which I have, she is NOT OVER AT THE KNEES LIKE THAT genetically, she is extremely crippled.
That is a very nice mare from a structural standpoint, and I’d be PROUD to own any of her offspring, as they aren’t generally OVERmuscled, they’re BALANCED and have a LOT to offer the quarter horse halter industry for sure.”
Said about this photo: http://www.bertonqh.com/shanes_dam.jpg
Most of what Ohforcryingoutloud posts I agree with but to say the conformation of that mare has a LOT to offer ANY breed just takes my breath away. Just look at her back legs. Retch. And just look at her stallion son. He’s a carbon copy of her, terrible lameness inducing back legs and all.
What on earth do people see in these ugly useless halter horses? Is it really so exciting to treat a horse like a dog and show it in beauty pageants while knowing that the conformation is so dreadful the horse at its best is a virtual cripple. Why am I not surprised taking the above into account that they don’t mind about HYPP???
Poor bloody horses.
uuhh… excuse the fuck out of me but she is EIGHTEEN. that is hardly old, many, many horses are still soundly working at that age.
shes also crippled with NAVICULAR – look at the way shes standing. that is because the bones in her feet have rotated. she very likely finds every step to be agony. she should have been euthanised long ago, forget breeding her EVER.
luckily it seems shes produced little due to a ‘torn cervix’ (never heard that excuse before, riddle me that one, batman?) – she can barely hold up her own weight, let alone carry a foal. when a horse is humping its back and buckling over at the knees like that its time to let go of your petty, greedy, ignorant ambition and do what is RIGHT.
I’m guessing comments were disabled after they got firmly (and justly) spanked for breeding this mare to begin with.
When I looked to the side, I saw “smootch attack” about a mini…had to see it. Thought you might enjoy (or stroke out) to read the “description.”
“This is my dwarved mini horse Smooch. He is almost two years old, now, but this is an older video. Any way, he’s still a stallion so he’s kinda rascally. Enjoy! P.S. He is deformed, he is a braciocephalic dwarf and was born without tendons in his hind legs. Thats why his feet look like that, not becuase we don’t trim them.”
HE IS A STALLION WHY? Please tell me it’s because he wouldn’t survive anesthesia…and he’s nowhere near any mares.
Unfortunately, A Legacy I believe has fallen prey to one of the most common ‘shortcuts’ in the halter industry, and that is trimming their feet so they appear to be standing on tip-toes. I actually like him alright, he’s muscled without being overly so, and while he could use a little more bone in his lower legs, he’s not horribly scant in that area, like a lot of popular halter horses. And standing him up that way has made him appear oddly sickle-hocked/post-legged behind, just like so many other stallions out there. All to make his hip seem like it has more ‘hang’ to it. A shame.
But anyway, THAT PRACTICE of trimming a horse completely unnaturally and standing them up on their feet like that can and will cause navicular. It’s basically GIVING them navicular in some cases, which sucks. I will go along with not breeding a navicular horse, of course, because I know it CAN VERY WELL be hereditary. But in the halter industry, with all the weird shit they do to fuck up their feet, it’s a prevelant disease.
That picture of that mare is awful, no doubt. But trust that her stance is because of her condition. Google navicular and see how horses stand with the disease. I’ve seen quite a few dead-lame navicular horses, and she is typical of them in her stance.
And yeah, I will definantly go along with putting her down, poor thing. But like I said, I don’t necessarily think the mare herself is bad. First, look at her trapezoid. She’s balanced front and rear, with similar angles to her shoulder and croup. And her head is turned slightly, but her neck is very nice as well. It ties in right where it should into her shoulders.
So excuse the fuck out of ME, but I do have a clue as to what I’m talking about regarding this particular mare. We don’t have to agree, but understand that I’ve seen better pics of this mare. She’s awfully navicular, that’s a fact, but if you can see BEYOND that, you can see that she actually IS a pretty nice mare. She DID sell TWICE for 100k, that should tell you that she’s not exactly crap.
nope sorry, shes foul up, down and sideways. *LOL*
I would love to see photos of that mare as a younger horse. There’s quality there, but she’s so crippled and banged up that it’s hard to see.
But… trimming halter horses in a way that will *cause* navicular? Whyyyy? It is so painful, though I suppose that makes it easier to move on to the Next Big Halter Prospect, because the navicular ones will be put down at a young age. Disposable horses… ugh! I still don’t get the QH industry, at least not this part of it…
theres also some degree of recent evidence to suggest navicular is hereditary.
price = quality? uh HUH. i dont think so. those same freaks want $75k for this inexplicable piece of shit… what does that tell you?
http://www.bertonqh.com/
sir_super_impressive.jpg
say it with me now: “more cash than brains, more cash than brains”.
I’ll go with you on a lot of what Berton does isn’t what I would do/what I like/etc. No doubt about that.
Yeah, she’s banged up, and yeah, she’s navicular.
But she was originally a very nice horse. Nice pedigree, nice build. Whether two people with ‘more money than sense’ showed up and gave 100k for her two seperate times is your opinion.
We can just agree to disagree on that matter, because frankly she’s obviously NOT looking her best and I cannot seem to find the better pictures I’ve seen of her anywhere. Which sucks. But hey, that’s life I suppose.
When you trim a horse extremely unnaturally, you affect the blood flow to the feet. There is always going to be problems when you do that. Navicular and laminitis seem to be popular diseases because of this. It’s a sad fact.
I personally despise the fact that a lot of people ruin halter horse’s feet and legs as a shortcut, and that they get on cutters and reiners at a year and a half to get them ‘further ahead’ in their training for the futurities. There’s a lot I don’t like about the horse industry, that’s for sure.
lifelike001 said…
theres also some degree of recent evidence to suggest navicular is hereditary.
And I do DEFINANTLY believe that it can be. I’ve seen it with my own eyes… three quarters of a stallion’s production coming up with navicular between 5 and 8 years old. Sad.
But I also subscribe to the fact that it can also be CREATED. Even the strongest of feet and legs are often no match for the idiot things they do to halter horses to make them appear bigger, more impressive, and catch the judges eye more.
I have recently bought a AQHA yearling filly registered and all and the owner didnt tell me much bout her at all but the main thing they did however get a chance to tell me was she “was worth alot of money” so that got me wondering on why did they give her to me so cheap….well I have had her for bout 5 months now and for the past 5 months I have had one headache after another with vet bills she has 10 stitches in her cheek/throat latch area as I speak she has a large open wound on the inside of her right knee and I now have to cut the proud flesh out of it….and my vet god bless his soul has menaged to do some blood testing on her and I have just found out she has HYPP h/n which when I heard this I didnt have a clue what it was….dont get me wrong I have owned horses for some time but I have never owned or even knew someone who owned a HYPP horse so I didnt know much bout it well after doing some research I have learned ALOT more bout it and I have to say 1. I am very very pissed that the last owner for lacking to tell me bout her condition 2. WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE BREED IF THEY KNOW WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! and last but not least 3. I have figured that my future breeding prospect will never have a chance to come n e where close to a stud in her life she will be a riding horse THATS IT no broodmare status awaiting her later in life…and I just want to say this site has open my eyes when it comes to certain things and I think it is a WONDERFUL site keep up the great work
” oh_for_crying_out_loud said…
But I also subscribe to the fact that it can also be CREATED.”
oh i 100% agree. which makes berton twice the abusive, ignorant, greedy, filthy fuckwads.
maybe with their other horses, but Sonnys Red Lace was like that before Bertons got her.
I’m with you on your assessment of them, in a way. They bred their N/H mare Nicool Kinman to N/H stallion Kids Classic Style via embryo transfer I believe, and are selling embryos off that mare for what I would call astronomical prices.
I think navicular is very strongly related to conformation. Show me a horse with a great shoulder and great pasterns who has been diagnosed navicular, and I’ll show you a misdiagnosed horse who is actually suffering from bad shoeing. I am absolutely convinced this is true 100% of the time, from what I’ve seen.
Y’know, most of the time, I’d say it IS poor conformation.
But there are too many out there with decent feet and legs that are breaking down.
an interesting theory on navicular:
http://cvm.msu.edu/news/press/navicular.htm
Oh, I forgot to add that I very much DO believe that it can be hereditary. Absolutely.
Because you’re right on the conformation causing stress and resulting in navicular.
But navicular is just one of the problems… there are aLOT of them out there caused by poor conformation, that’s for sure.
Ohforcryingoutloud can you explain why you think that mare had good conformation at one stage in her life? Her back legs are like posts. I can sort of accept that the fronts are due to her navicular (poor little sod) but her back end? That is mirrored exactly in her son? That has to be genetic and from someone who is used to seeing horses with conformation for performance (dressage and jumping) that back end is useless and obscene. How could it ever in a million years ever be considered “good”?
As for halter people trimming their horses feet so they “stand on their tip toes”. Sh!t. I mean sh!t. What the hell sort of sport is that? What sort of people do that? The whole sorry lot of them should be had up for cruelty.
stolensilver said…
Ohforcryingoutloud can you explain why you think that mare had good conformation at one stage in her life? Her back legs are like posts. I can sort of accept that the fronts are due to her navicular (poor little sod) but her back end? That is mirrored exactly in her son? That has to be genetic and from someone who is used to seeing horses with conformation for performance (dressage and jumping) that back end is useless and obscene. How could it ever in a million years ever be considered “good”?
As for halter people trimming their horses feet so they “stand on their tip toes”. Sh!t. I mean sh!t. What the hell sort of sport is that? What sort of people do that? The whole sorry lot of them should be had up for cruelty.
Her back end is the product of the navicular trimming folks give horses who are afflicted with that disease… up on their toes, relieving the tendon in the back. It’s something that happens a lot in halter horses as it creates an effect that makes the hip look like it’s just ‘hanging way out’ there. Hence the term ‘lots of hang’ on a hip. Her son is trimmed the same way, unfortunately.
Her back end is just like her front end, up on her toes with navicular and painfully so. I don’t know WHY they would keep her around in such a condition, unless they’ve nerved her or bute her constantly, which isn’t good for pregnant mares in the first place… sometimes you just have to let them go, no matter how good they are or, in this case, how much money they can make you.
Thanks for replying. What they are doing to these halter horses, the “qualities” they are breeding for and the steroids they give them, the way they trim their feet so they end up crippled, the whole thing is just appaling. How did horse shows develop into such travesties where the horses suffer so much for their owner’s greed? What did halter horses look like 50 years ago? Were they capable of doing a job back then?
It’s the same with dogs isn’t it? Although the abuse of pure bred dogs is worldwide, not just limited to the US. What is it with humans? Why can they not breed for health and longevity rather than looking like a Belgian Blue beef cow with the halter horses?
drile said: “”we would like to note that the attack was seen occuring via a wireless monitor. A handheld cam was set down in the barn to record, sometimes being picked up between times of helping her. There was a lot of the 60 minute video edited out, mostly of her being tended to, comforted and lengthy times of her laying with rigor.”
Ahh, okay, thanks for pointing that out.
Um. I found your blog because of the appys on the Alex Brown racing site. That particular site had me worried about the intelligence of people in general. I’m glad to see that on this site there seem to be people who are actually thinking.
I wanted to see the video of that Kids Classic Style, but it’s gone. I guess you’ve generated too much interest in it.
You’ve got some great topics.
BTW, why should a horse have even mediocre (sp?) confirmation if it has color? That should be funny, but since there are people out there who are breeding jug-headed, freaky-looking, I guess I can use fugly horses because they have color, it’s not.
How many black and white horses have you seen that are just plain fugly? It’s an epidemic.
I used to ride with a friend of mine (we’ve since moved apart) and one horse was a little sway-backed, furry old paint horse and the other was a NICE, well-put together solid horse. It was very easy to tell good “horse people” from bad or un-”horse people” from which horse they would say was beautiful. Unfortunately, the number of people saying the little paint was beautiful far outnumbered the ones saying the other horse was beautiful.
I wish this site wasn’t so entertaining, since I have a LOT to do today, and can’t seem to close this browser window.
Ah yes, the halter horse problem.
I think it’s sad what has happened to the majority of the AQHA and APHA winning halter horses, mostly the N/H ones.
But aside from that…
Look at Arabs, Saddlebreds and some Morgans. OH, and Tennesee Walkers! Good NIGHT, some of those practices will curl your hair and turn your stomach.
Google BIG LICK WALKERS
Google GINGERING A HORSE
Google COSMETIC EQUINE SURGERY…
It’s disgusting.
I’m relatively familiar with alot of the bloodlines, and individual horses mentioned here, as with owners and breeding farms associated with them.
The Ima Cool Skip sons mentioned, both Sir Cool Skip and Ima Tru Skip have some tremendous offspring out there. The stallions are n/h yes, and it is a shame that they are, but they have also had an extremely positive influence in the breed. I’m not going to argue the fact that n/h needs to be removed from the scene, but there are ALOT of great animals out there right now that are n/n that have an n/h parent. So, yes I suppose to some degree I’m playing devil’s advocate.
Sticking strictly with halter bloodlines here, there have been some n/h stallions that quickly come to mind that have had a great impact on the breed with their n/n foals, that we would be without today, so its a double edge sword and an arguement that nobody will ever get 100% backing on.
If you ask me, money simply will not allow for a clean sweep of hypp from the picture. Sitting through the entire halter session of the world show sale last week tells me this. But at least the association is starting to move towards eliminating it, although very slowly. I will say, that with the few exceptions, the n/h horse prices were down, while comparable n/n stock was up.
And if anyone is wondering, yes I’ve owned numerous Impressive breds and think the world of them. Impressive himself, as was stated earlier, was typical of that era halter horse. Something with a strong race-type background that was more modern that the typical working cow horse. As of right now, I have one mare that goes back to him and the remainder of my horses have a combination of QH performance and Tb blood, with a sprinkle of halter to try to clean them up a bit.
For Diane & showjumperuk:
This has been a very interesting blog to follow. I have read each thread on this particular subject, and Some of you really know what you are talking about!! I am IMPRESSED!!
You both, however, do not….!!
Speaking of the the yearling stallion De Renzo, you both had issues about his withers and/or shoulder.
First of all withers are a good attribute, but are in no way the most important feature to be concerned with when it come to structure.
Second, if you think this horses shoulder is straight …you seriously need a conformation lesson. This horse’s shoulder is the perfect angle, and you can tell this by compareing them with the angle of his pasterns…which is also perfect(some positive reasons the horse was purchesed inthe first place) Straight pasterns have NO angle and make the leg look like a candlestick–this horse does not have this look. Comparatively the shoulder will be just as straight.
This horse is as balanced as you can find (ESPECIALLY for a halter horse) Which makes EXCELLENT stallion material, because most people’s mares have weak backs, straight shoulders and pasterns, bad hocks, or are heavy chested with no ass, or vice versa. He will cross great with those huge,
overdone N/H mares and giv ethem the balance, bine structure and strong feet these mares lack.
Sorry girls…you should know your halter info before you post open ended comments that don’t validate.
Oh Yeah, he just won the 2007 AHQA World in Yearling Stallions.
Thanks for your time.