I make warm-bloods
Aug 16 2007
NFQHA is coming…but I found this and simply had to share!
For those of you who were defending the American Warmblood Society when I was pointing out that it encourages clueless morons to breed mixed breed crap, I have a wonderful web site sent in by an alert reader. The first line reads “I make warm-bloods.” What, like making iced tea? Well, clearly with as much or possibly less planning and forethought.
As another alert reader comments, “I make Warmbloods too !!! I “make them” trot and canter, I “make them” leave their stalls and go out in the field, and sometimes I “make” mine go over jumps.” Good for you, alert reader – that is probably far more than Miss Buckskin Palomino Polka Dotted Sporthorses Dot Com will ever do with ones she “makes.” The fact that there is not a single riding picture on her web site is a pretty good clue.
Miss BPPDSDC goes on to brag “All of my horses have pedigrees and most a double registered!” Sweetheart, Ted Bundy and Ed Gein have pedigrees. Just go to Geneology.com and I’m sure you can look them up. All that means is that the ancestors are not unknowns. While I am not sure what “most a double registered” means, I am willing to bet we are talking about Blue Eyed American Warmbloods here!
She then goes on to brag of her Suffolk Punch stallion “He comes in one color Chesnut, not chestnut.” While I have learned that the Suffolk Punch folks HAVE officially adopted a misspelling of a common horse color in order to look more Special, I am not sure about the thought that a horse comes in one color. As opposed to, what? Sending him back to God or Epona or his dam and stating you would like to exchange for the same horse in a nice mahogany bay?
Next… “I register all [stallion's] foals with the American Warmblood Society so they are all Sporthorses.” BING BING BING…what do I TELL you people about what these registries encourage? This woman thinks that the AWS giving her a set of papers makes her horses sport horses. Never mind any relationship to actually PERFORMING a damn SPORT. The logic train just doesn’t go that far down the tracks with these folks, and the AWS encourages it by registering their crap.
“I created this website to sell the offspring. Some are buckskins and some are Palominos, some are boys and some are girls.” No shit! You mean, you don’t have any hermaphrodites for sale? Well damn I guess I will have to go elsewhere. I am so disappointed. I really wanted a chesnut half Suffolk Punch hermaphrodite. I am sure some other “warm-blood” breeder will have one though! Maybe I can buy it not even conceived yet, because their animal communicator says it will be born that way, in 2010, on a sunny day, in western Pennsylvania.
“This is an orphan foal at one week old he is [stallion's] baby and a buckskin Quarter mare that passed 24hrs after giving birth. She gave her life so that this baby could survive even when she lay in pain she moved her leg back so he could nurse.. “
OMG you incredible retard. You bred a poor little QH mare to your GIGANTOR Suffolk Punch stud and then you WONDER why she DIED FOALING? Did you even put her down or did you let her suffer so the foal could nurse? And just to create the thing at left which looks like a BLM mustang or a reject from someone’s bucking string.
Logical thought for the day: MOST people when “making” draft crosses have draft MARES. Since the baby has to come out of the MARE, it makes sense that the MARE is the larger of the two parents and able to safely birth the large BABY. Same with pony-horse crosses. Is this complicated or something?
(Edited to note: Apparently newer studies show that the mare is supposed to self-regulate foal size no matter what you breed her to. However, many breeders seem to have stories of foals too large for the mare resulting in complications, and I know I’ve been told by vets that it’s a bad idea. It is entirely possible both sides are right in that the real problem is the conformation of the mare in question more so than her height. Plenty of discussion on the research, opinions, etc. in the comments section and I’m sure more will come.)
This is a breeding stock Paint filly that she has for sale for $7500. I can buy one just like this any day of the week at the killer auction for $150. Hey, it is not such a bad little filly (though it could use some groceries) but there’s absolutely nothing here that makes it worth $7500. Has either parent ever accomplished anything? You can’t tell by her web site, and I couldn’t find two words about them on the net. I’m guessing their main accomplishments are being palomino and buckskin.
*sigh*
I know this lady lives in California, land of the rich, foolish and easily parted with their money, but this is bad even for California. Stop breeding the Stud That Ate New York to normal sized mares, you moron! Do you even HAVE a vet?
Finally, from one of her sale ads… “He is a yearling and has already cleared a 6ft fence at 8 mos.”
I do not even want to know that story.
135 comments to “I make warm-bloods”
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wow, this is such an amazing article thats brought forth some really interesting issues concerning mixing breeds, my question is what happens when you breed your shetland stallion to you thoroughbred mare(DONT worry l am NOT doing this) am not refering to the birthing process but more to the possiblity of very weird conformation such as short legs long heads and neck but only 3 foot tall animals??? believe me l have SEEN such animals and it still amazes me that people do this
“luvmyfuglyhorse said…
Holy shit, Chromecowgirl!
good home only, no freak shows! – then why the hell are they advertising on the internet! For Pete’s sake! Offer her quietly to a loving home if you don’t want to keep her.
If she’s not in pain and her quality of life good, she should go with some kind of contract – NO BREEDING – or SPAY!
She’s only 4 years old and probably not destined to a long life. Those kind of oddities don’t usually last long.
Hey at least they didn’t post a picture… yet “
nO…THEY WERE TO CHEAP TO PAY THE 9.95!
Soli said…
hackney_wonder:
I agree the pictured TWH is abysmal. But the comment about a “nothing” mare is irrelevent when you’re talking about TWH’s.
The thing about TWH’s is, you cannot judge a good horse by the show success due to the horrible judging standards in so-called performance walkers (i.e. the stacked feet, soring, unnatural gait, etc). Many – indeed the majority of the WGC’s I have seen – in person – have absolutely horrendous legs and hooves, and virtually ALL of them are built downhill (they LOOK correct when they are parked out, with five inch stacks added to their front hooves – put their feet under them where they belong and take the stacks off – and you have a very poorly conformed horse!)
While I like this blog, I am seeing a lot of show-blindness and less and less horsemanship here. A good horse is a good horse. Breeding for trendy, harmful show ring name-sakes is JUST AS BAD as breeding for color or any other silly trend.
Even by TWH standards, there are lines that stand out as good, conformationally correct flat or keg shod or pleasure horses. LIke evertyhing, certain lines make for a good certain type horse. I like show horses, so I will stick with the big named, well known showing lines.
In pleasure lines, I will stick with the big name pleasure and versatility horses. There is no need to go off the beaten path (in this case WAY off) to get a nice horse.
It was still a color and money thing for them though as bad as I hate to say it.
There are many good and conformationally correct padded horses but if you don’t like them, don’t buy them or go to the shows. For some that is what they like. Me, that is what I like. I have been infatuated with a padded horse since I was a kid and never grew out of it.
Kinda like this blog for some I guess. LOL!!
Dang it…. forgot to add…
I have also found when you are breeding your mare better be the absolute best she can be all around. To me the stallion has to be good also but your mare should be better.
They are 80% of what your foal will be. For what we have breed, that has been true for us.
If you have a nightmare mare, no matter how nice the stallion, the foal will more than likely be a nightmare also.
Hmm. come on now everyone, it’s not always fair to condem an animal thats being used for breeding as a younger horse Before he’s a proven sport animal ok. l intend to use my colt Before he becomes a ridden horse as l dont believe in riding the crap out of youngsters anyway, but in saying that he is having his inspection for stallion approval BEFORE being used to serve mares and will start his led class showing in the next few weeks(hoping for a couple of national titles over time) but l also have to admit that once he becomes a ridden animal his career direction will change from show pony to sport pony and in the meantime from careful mare selection to him(not tall heavy ugly mares nor short fat assed ponies) l hope to have a couple of superb quality ponies with the added bonus of color(he’s perlino) that will be for sale at AFFORDABLE prices inline with their age quality and the fact that they are ponies(kids grow out of em) the crazy prices asked for quality ponies amazes me(am more amazed at the idiots that pay them)
Theres probably many people that do as l am(dont know) but also probably as man byb’s that have no intentions of ever competing their stallions(lucky for me l have 3 riders vying to compete on him)
BREED THE BEST TO THE BEST AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.
COLOR IS JUST A BONUS
hackney_wonder: What do you think of this TWH?
yes he’s gelded
I found this site that explains the differnce between a warm-blood and a mutt/draft cross. Maybe some of the american sport horse breedes should read this. I’m more associated with stock type horses so this help me to understand. Please infom me if this is wrong.
http://www.sonestafarms.com/wbinfo.htm
FHOTD,
LOL, I love the fugly horse swag! I’m going to really annoy some people at the horse shows next season.
Regarding the Fugly Horse TShirts – we need BLACK!!! Can’t wear any other colors. Got too many clowns with dirty mushes!
Cobwebbing really looks like a spider web on the horse’s forhead. Our gulla (black base plus dun) stallion (not we didnt’ get him for his color – he’d be awesome in any color) has the cobwebbing – black dots in a concentric circular pattern on his charcoal grey forhead. It’s very cool looking. Hard to photograph though.
We considered breeding our 9 hand mini mare to our 14 hand paso fino stallion. Hoping for something abour 11 hands with gait. We didn’t for several reasons but most of all even if the uterus restricts the size of the foal and this mare was a proven brood mare – very nice quality – the foal would grow so fast I don’t see how the mare could keep up with the milk demand. Yes we would have done AI. No point in risking tearing.
One more comment on size – it has been the rule of thumb in thoroughbreds so I’m told that the first foal of a mare is a “throwaway” because it will be very small. Yes it may be born small but a study indicated that by age one the first foals had caught up with the later siblings in size and were NOT smaller.
xpbuttercup – I think that TWH is gorgeous! I know nothing about the breed except that their gaits are awesome. I am thinking about getting one. I have been perusing the classifieds for a black TWH, I’d like a little chrome…here I go, blinded by color and bling! But I am not interested in breeding, so I don’t care if it’s fugly by other people’s standards – as long as it can do its job.
Where’ d you find that one?
luvmyfugly…
… and the dipstick of the day goes to…
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad229187
Stupid is as stupid does.
…
In this case, after purchase, she learned that the Dam and the Sire to her colt are half-siblings…. duh!
———————————–
Here’s a case of half-siblings producing a hell of a horse:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/leo5
http://www.premierpub.com/pedpower/
legends/leo.htm
Now, granted this what 2/3 something and 1/4 something else is probably no Leo, but still.
Dakota – Well I guess Leo was an “ok” result of that kind of inbreeding… LOL
For sure, there are exceptions, but for the most part, wouldn’t common sense mandate avoiding it?
xpButtercup said…
hackney_wonder: What do you think of this TWH?
yes he’s gelded
Without being able to see him from the front and back, I do like him. He is a good length in the back, no short or long (which TWHs can be very in either direction). I personally like a shorter coupled horse. They can getter under themselves and travel easier.
He looks to have a good butt (looking by tail set) which should give him a decent stride on the rear.
The only thing I may fault him for is being a touch forward necked. In old breeding though that is more of a standard neck. He looks to be pretty headed also.
It does look as though he may have been padded early in life. I get that impression by the way he stands.
I can’t tell if he has the turned out toe going on or not. I don’t much care for it but alot of TWH you see today will have it, especially the show lines. Something about that slightly splayed toe is supposed to help the way they gait. *whatever they want to say you know*
Also, a fair amount of them will be cowhocked to give them that wide backend when traveling. Without when they overstride the front foot, they may cork themselves. The ones that aren’t wide enough will be probably be shod with the hoof trimmed lower on the inside and have the toe nubbed.
Even my old horse (by Ebony’s Mtn. Man) is VERY cow hocked. He doesn’t have the out turned toe but he has a very wide chest. And I am guessing without a front shot of him but I would say that horse does also.
You can definately tell old breeding from new. Your wide stocky builds have been replaced with more slender builds.
I can tell a huge difference when I go from my old man to my stud (about to be a gelding). The stud is of the new generation. He is by Pusher’s Bustin’ Loose and out of a Pride’s Generator mare. Plenty of those out there and even though he conformationally correct, drop dead gorgeous, has a fantastic show record, and gaits correctly when plantation shod (we keep him padded and show Racking), he will be a gelding come fall. My problem with him is the way he acts in the stall towards other horses, that Pusher breeding coming out. If I want that breeding, I can go to plenty of places and get it.
My appollogies to Epiphany about the draft/TB crosses as being warmblood- they are not. Technically speaking it makes sense, but they still aren’t quite IT.
Ridesobright- If you know of someone who can run that fast- she shoud be making a lot of money handling horses! Most people I know can’tkeep up.
I mixed the two up (AWR and AWS) when I was getting my little pony stallion inspected. Everyone was all excited about the ‘event’. I asked the site host how high he had to jump? She had no clue what I was talking about.
People we met at the inspection (who later became good friends) asked the site host, the state rep, and the judge/founder of AWS, questions about what this does for her horse? NONE of them could answer it. She kept hearing you can show her- So what! She’s a registered filly, we can do that already.
They felt it was money in the toilet, as well as a giant clusterf$%&. The only good that came from the day is that our two horses got some ‘show miles’, and we met and became friends. (Her filly has gone one to whoop some serious tail across the country in her breed/discipline.)
Regarding the Fugly Horse TShirts – we need BLACK!!! Can’t wear any other colors. Got too many clowns with dirty mushes!
I second that one!!!!!
^^^^ is impatiently awaiting her daily dose of fugly…..
Hell yes, we need black. But I think I’d buy one anyway, regardless of color. I’m off to get my checkbook.
Hehe. I’ve already ordered a black/white raglan. ^^ Can’t wait to wear it.
“Phairo’s Ramses is a !/2 Arabian buckskin out of my grey
arab mare and Raleighs Midas Touch”
And no one caught this,…. This is my pet peeve,… If you are breeding for color, why, oh why, do you breed to a grey???? Now you’ll have a fugly horse that’s eventually going to be plain old white,….
Colt #1 looks identical to a $35 dollar BLM mustang my daughter impulsively “adopted.” LOL
He made an okay gelding. Usable for covering country.
Reinhardt= Pleasure horse. Thats all he be good for, that or trail riding! But thats not to say he can’t be fabulous in his own way. I myself have a bombed OTTB (his name is now “Me Go Slowly” if you get my drift.)purchased at auction with sesamoid and pastern fractures in his left front. Originally estimated to have Fourth Level Dressage potential, he topped out at Second level when he collided with a pipe fence and impaled his right knee (not to mention dozens of other stitches and some staples.) Since then my ingenius horse has bashed himself in the head twice(more staples, yay! Pics on my blog!) impaled his neck on a fence splinter and suffered another fracture, this time to his left front cannon bone. Needless to say, his potential (at 18) is now “Walk/Trot Pleasure Horse”. But I’ll be damned if he isn’t GOOD AT THAT! And we’ve got the ribbons to prove it.
OK let’s get one thing straight here.
The research proving the size of the of the foal is governed by the mare is over ONE HUNDRED YEARS OLD!!!!!!!
It involved Percherons and NATIVE – STANDARD (ie 42 ” +) Shetland mares- big, hairy sturdy mares.
It was long before any real, scientific research and was designed to prove a point, nothing more.
It has been stated as “canon” ever since.
It is NONSENSE.
It is the BUILD and size of the stallion and the BULID ans size of the more that is important.
I regularly bred my 11.2hh Welsh mare to a 15.2hh Arab X stallion and she had no trouble falling out a foal to make 13.2hh.
The mare was fairly light but the stallion was EXTREMELY fine boned and known to throw small foals.
Our other stallion, a pure bred, was only 14.0hh but threw ENORMOUS foals with loads of bone form all different sized mares- no way would I ever have put him on my little mare!!!
Incidentally, Suffolk’s are NOT “chesnut” they are SORREL- the term originated in Suffolk and was exported to the States, along with the horses.
These people are NUTS!!!
kirri – ‘sorrel’ is an american term, not used anywhere in the world but america. why the hell would anyone in suffolk (thats england, BTW) use the term ‘sorrel’??
try a little research before you talk utter bollocks.
http://www.suffolkhorsesociety.org.uk/
I say AGAIN!!
Sorrel is the colour of Suffolk Punches.
Sorrel is what Suffolk Punches are called.
It is NOT an “American term” it migrated to America- just where do you think all the people came from BTW???- with the people from East Anglia and was adopted into the “American language” (which, last time I looked was still called “English”)
I suggest YOU try doing some elementary research- just a very, VERY basic one and you will find all that I say there in black and white (That is “black and white” even in american!!)
Deary, deary me we do get our panties in a twist don’t we??
Basically Suffolk Punches are called “Sorrel” NOT Chestnut or Chestnut.
Whether you like it or not (Am going off to have a little laugh in the corner now!!)
Yeah. I wonder just whose panties are in a twist.
I have a Canadian Warmblood mare that was given to me because she was too much horse for her owner. She has papers, and was inspected as a foal, but didn’t go back for breeding approval. I am considering breeding her, but I am going to take her to an inspection next month before I even consider it. Shes a nice mare, good temperment, and LOVES to jump. BUT even if she did get approved, I don’t know if I will.
*LMFAO*
twist those panties before you realise youre TALKING to someone from east anglia
so basically what youre saying is the suffolk horse society are full of shit and you have some exclusive historical knowledge they are not aware of? tickets on your rudeass, ignorant self, much??
LIFELIKE001 – LMAO.
It’s easier to remember that all horses are red or black-based, with all the variations that can happen upon those two genes. Sorrels are just chestnuts that belong to dumb stock horse folks. LOL.
There is a lot of terminology that is proper, originating from England, and got twisted around here in the US, originally by those maybe a bit less-educated. As in “stallion”, or “I got me good filly colt out of my stud horse”. LOL.
Um. Yeah. No one here uses ‘sorrel’. Most people probably wouldn’t even know what it means. From what I gather, it doesn’t really have a set-in-stone meaning in america – some people use it for a certain shade of chestnut, which can be either very light or very dark; some people use it for flaxen chestnut, meaning it can also get incorrectly applied to a palomino; and many people simply use it to cover all shades of chestnut.
I tried to research the word. A lot of irrelevant stuff about other meanings for the word, which apparantly originated from something in french and came to mean something like ‘sour’ or ‘surly’ in english. There’s a herb called sorrel, which apparently goes red when it goes to seed. And apparantly that plant it very common accross north america (less so in europe, where is was imported from). I can’t find anything about the word being used in england, or anywhere outside north america, for that matter. But then, JSTOR won’t let me in the OED archives because I don’t have my password. Curses.
Kyani – Sometimes, (in QHs or Paints), you see people using “sorrel” on a very cherry red horse, or a horse with a flaxen mane and tail; and “chestnut” on a red horse that has pale yellow areas or dark areas, with no “cherry” tint to them at all. People do see a difference, yet they’re just different shades of chestnut. I have one of each, but to me, they’re still red horses, with the chestnut gene and not the black gene.
Scratch that. Jstor is equally useless. The evidence for the common use of ‘sorrel’ in britain is either non-existant, or a well-kept secret.
FtFotB, that’s exactly what I mean! The use of the word ‘sorrel’ can vary vastly between different areas, and even different families.
On one forum, I have been talking to two girls from the same state, same county. One uses sorrel to refer to the darker, redder shades, and one to refer to the lighter, flaxen chestnuts her family own (several of which sound like pallys, actually).
I prefer to use chestnut, since there’s less ambiguity.
I just had a gander at that Reinhardt-American Warmblood. That is one of the FUGLIEST things I’ve ever seen. How is he grullo? He just looks brown to me
I know that breeding a large stallion to a much smaller mare can result in the baby being too large and can result in the mare and foal dying because it can not fit through the birth canal. A quarter horse mare (who was about the same size as my arab) came to the stable where I board at. Because the mare had gotten so large in the belly we were told that she was having twins. Soon the time came for the mare to give birth and many people who’ve never watched a foal being born got to witness one of the most horrific attempts at birth ever. The baby too large to fit through the birth canal, died after many struggles to get it out. After it was clear the baby was not going to make it in the process of getting the baby out, the mare bled to death. We were told later that this mare was accidentally bred by their very large draft horse when it got out of the pen. One person who saw the foal said it looked as large as a yearling. This folks is why they can terminate equine pregnancies!