Thank you, Craig, for the endless stream of material
Aug 14 2007
Today’s Craigslist stallion for sale! (Actually, unfortunately, one of many) My comments in blue.
$700.00 OBO. TO GOOD HOME. (Why do people say this? Do they honestly think the bad people say “oh, okay, this one can only go to a good home” and pass it by?) HE IS GORGEOUS AND SWEET AND PASSES IT ON TO HIS BABIES. (Considering he is worth $700, I wonder what the “gorgeous and sweet” babies are worth? Maybe 2 six-packs and tickets to a ball game?) HE WILL HALTER BREED (WHEN LEAD UP), AND WILL PASTURE BREED. (So will damn near anything with balls) APHA REGISTARD (We all know the comment I want to make, and I know it’s not P.C., but you all know what it is!) . ON HIS PAPERS ARE: “MISSLE STEP” (born 47 years ago, I think we can safely say this is not the sire and I’ll be surprised if it’s a grandsire) SIRE OF WORLD CHAMPS.,SUPERIOR HALTER CHAMPS.,SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE CHAMPS.,NRHA MONEY EARNERS, AND RACING MONEY EARNERS.- “MR. DENERO” APHA (aha, so this is a breeding stock Paint – because there is such a demand to breed to solid colored Paints!) 12 TIME GRAND CHAMPION, 8 TIME RESERVE CHAMP., AND SUPERIOR CHAMP HALTER HORSE.- “LITTLE JOE BAILEY” (foaled 41 years ago, again, not likely to be close up) GRAND HALTER CHAMP. AND RESERVE CHAMPION. HIS BLOODLINES ALSO INCLUDE HALL OF FAME HORSES “THREE BARS”, “JOE REED”, “JOE REED II” , “COMMANDO”, “MAN-O-WAR”, AND “PETER PAN” (Won the 1907 Belmont Stakes, in case you were wondering. Hey, in my next ad can I brag that my horse goes back to the Godolphin Arabian?) HE WAS BRED TO A PALAMINO PAINT, BAY PAINT, AND A CHESTNUT PAINT AND HE HAS ALWAYS PRODUCED BLACK AND WHITE OVEROS. ALTHOUGH I DO NOT GARENTEED (No one can spell this word, can they?). HE IS FOR A BREEDING HOME ONLY, HE CANNOT BE RIDDEN (how did I know that was coming?) BECAUSE OF A OLD CORNETT INJURY THAT HAPPENED BEFORE I BOUGHT HIM (He was at this Renaissance Faire and he tripped and fell over a cornett that someone had dropped, you see) WHEN HE WAS 2 YRS OLD- THE INJURY DOES NOT EFFECT (AFFECT, damn it) HIS BREEDING OR HIS HAPPY LIFE. i AM ONLY SELLING BECAUSE I HAVE NO TIME FOR HIM AND HE HAS BECOME JUST A YARD ORNAMENT (which is exactly what he should be!), AND ALTHOUGH HE IS PRETTY TO LOOK AT, HE NEEDS TO BREED! (He “NEEDS” to get gelded! “Yard Ornament” is the only thing he is qualified to do! You don’t NEED a lot of time for a yard ornament, but let’s face it, YOU don’t want to feed him all winter with the price of hay.) HE WILL COME WITH ALL INFORMATION AND FORMS NEEDED TO START YOUR BREEDING BUSSINES. (Oh yeah, Ms. Hooked on Phonics, ’cause I’d trust contracts coming from you, for sure!) CALL ME TO COME SEE HIM OR IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. [name and number redacted] PLEASE CALL FOR INFORMATION. I WILL CONSIDER A TRADE AS WELL. FOR TRACKTER (ROTFL!), OLDER BROKE HORSE, SADDLES, CORRAL PANNELS. PLEASE CALL ME [number repeated in case you forgot - we need to make sure you jump on this killer deal!]
The pictures are all bad – I can’t really judge the animal, except that he’s obviously got some cow hocks, but I don’t need to. He’s:
1) unrideable
2) unshown
3) solid color in a breed where color is what is desired
4) worth $700 to buy – right there I think that is ALWAYS enough reason to nix it for breeding. If it’s for sale for less than $5000, IT ISN’T STALLION QUALITY. And when I say $5000, I am thinking of $5000 as a weanling, when it just looks like it could potentially be stallion quality but has not accomplished anything yet.
And do not read that and then e-mail me about the stakes winning stallion you found at auction. Yes, I know it happens. I saw a winner of about $180K with a horrible, disgustingly swollen sheath area go for $200 at a low end auction some years back and yes, he did go to a rescuer. The racing industry is a beast unlike any other and the way it is set up, amazing horses can and do take a wrong turn occasionally (although it is also likely you will discover the $400,000 stakes winner you found at auction produces crappy foals or is sterile and there was some reason he was deliberately dumped and someone meant for him to disappear from the earth until you intervened). Bottom line, low value horses produce more low value horses and that’s what keeps the double-deckers filled up.
119 comments to “Thank you, Craig, for the endless stream of material”
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Words fail me at the moment.
uh yeah, quality!… I dont want a trackter, but I will take a tractor…..
Oh yeah, this one’s headed for the sale barn.
Oops, hit submit too fast.
How much ya wanna bet he’s not sound because the fucktards didn’t bother to spend any money on things like oh..maybe..vet care. Looks like they don’t spend much on food either. Cheap illiterate bastards.
Yes, I wonder about that too. I have had horses with coronet injuries…that, with proper care, resulted in nothing more than a permanent blemish and a line down the hoof at the point of injury.
Oh but FHOD that requires actually taking time out of your busy NASCAR watching, beer guzzling, ball scratching schedule to care for the horse.
Amazing…makes me want to buy him and castrate him just for the publics own good! This is so typical for Craigslist, and what is even worse is that someone out there will think that this is a good deal and the ticket to starting their own “foundation bred” QH program. Makes me want to throw up!
What a classic example of lazyass people who just want that “Yeah, we have us a stallione. We bred him and made us some purty babies.” and aren’t aware or compassionate or smart or financially equipped enough to actually take care of their horse and bring him to his full potential – or even halfway.
Poor guy. He looks like a sweetie.
omfg…. the seller needs to be spayed/neutered before s/he brings more illiterate back yard horse breeders/traders into the world.
Oh but FHOD that requires actually taking time out of your busy NASCAR watching, beer guzzling, ball scratching schedule to care for the horse.
ROTFLMAO, so funny and sadly true.
This is so typical for Craigslist
Absolutely. So sad.
Right on the money, FHOTD. Especially the part where you see people selling colts for $500 as “stallion prospects”. Yeah, right.
LMAO about the “trackter”. You don’t get much “trackter” for $700, either.
When I looked him up on Craigs, I realized…
he’s a solid breeding stock paint!
with the aforementioned cow hocks.
and a very strangely formed back…
I bet these people would LOVE him though. He fits right in with their ‘breeding program’ (I’ll use that term loosely. The term I probably SHOULD have used is ‘very shakey side investment that pays off only when we shnooker poor naive horse people into buying our shit stock or send the horses to the auction).
Anyway, he’d fit in here:
http://www.wolterranch.com/stallions1.htm
or here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann/
or even here:
http://www.awquarterhorse.net/
Think we should email them and let them know not to pass up this deal?
Maybe they have a trackter to trade for him. Because, y’know, he’s WORTH a tractor, right? Don’t those usually sell for a lot more than $700?? My cousin just bought one for his vineyard management company, and used it was 5k.
You’d have to be smoking some pretty serious crackpipe to give that for that fug black horse.
here’s what you get for $600 worth of trackter:
http://www.machinefinder.com/machine_detail.html?equip_id=544724&pageNumber=1&sortColumn=&printer_friendly=Y&ticket=5d308b2fc358c03923cf8ed4882eab734fff6267&jdeere_dealer_id=0&pageseq=925383
having balls makes a stallion prospect.. like every single man i meet is husband material just because hes got balls too!!
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD – OMG. Those are horrible! Typical, do nothing, crappy quality foundation QHs. Makes me sick. That black horse is better looking. LOL.
Yep, have an EX-breeding stallion that had a right front coronet injury. Still has a scar, and the hoof will always show the injury line, but he had vet care, so he’s completely sound, still jumps 2″, still does dressage at 1st level, still packs the 8yo around at horse shows and her 4yo sister in leadline. The boy had 5 offspring in 3 seasons of breeding before I decided his offspring, while very nice weren’t perfect enough, and gelded him. All of the foals sold into SHOW/PERFORMANCE homes except the youngest one which I’m keeping and will be a great driving pony in another year.
What is it with craigslist anyway? Everytime I decide to waste an afternoon searching the local craigslist, I find pathetic horses, worse tack, and the most heinous examples of the English language. Makes me wonder if you have to be a 3rd grade drop out to post something for sale.
Craigslist is unforkingbelievable. I decided to check out what’s available in my area. Oy. Why do people think it’s a selling point to say their 7 y/o child rides the 1 1/2 y/o filly DAILY that they’re selling. I feel my blood pressure rising. Gawd someone pour me a shot, hell hand me the damn bottle.
I read this ad the other day, I’m no less shocked by it today.
Incredible.
horsepoor- hey now, I watch NASCAR, but I don’t guzzle beer(HATE it) and I don’t have balls LOL
Craigslist is free remember… any idiot can use it, I know it’s hard, but try not to have an aneurysm LOL…
I can’t believe the people selling this horse even know how to use a computer or kumpuetor maybe they know how to use that.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD – OMG. Those are horrible! Typical, do nothing, crappy quality foundation QHs. Makes me sick. That black horse is better looking. LOL.
I toldya I had a list!! No kidding, I’ve been keeping a list of crap foundation breeders for about a year now, because I’ve been so fed up with their bs.
You ought to hear the lady with the fug buckskin and grulla rave about her horses on certain online forums. It’s hilarious, but what’s sad is that people BELIEVE HER.
Dollars to donuts, I bet none of those stallions are broke beyond MAYBE a walk/trot/lope stop and turn around. Which gripes me, because I believe ALL horses need a JOB besides making more horses. Before they’re bred, they need to earn the right to do so.
But heck, that’s just me.
“ALL horses need a JOB besides making more horses.”
That’s not a bad rule for people, too!
Hey, FHOTD, you also forgot
5) Needs some groceries!
fuglyhorseoftheday said…
“ALL horses need a JOB besides making more horses.”
That’s not a bad rule for people, too!
No DOUBT!
Gag, here’s another idiot…they have this poor horse with white line disease hobbling around and cannot afford shoes. How can you not be able to afford SHOES or HAY? And they’ve got other horses. Excuse me, must puke now.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I have a beautiful full QH gelding for rehome. He was left in boarding and had white line sometime back and it was not treated properly. We have him on a good diet and feed and supplement for feet. Vet said he will be ok in time but I can not afford more horses at this time. I will guess it will take approx. 7-9 months to have the hoofs grow out. He was an awesome dead broke well trained trail horse before his white line. He is real sweet and mellow. Easy catch and gets along with others. No issues except feet. He just turned 12. Up to date on worm and feet. He is being bullied by my horses and with him running away all the time from them he keeps the front feet hurting and tender.Loads,clips,bathes,and everything else. Rehome fee of 225.00. I have put approx 700.00 into him in 4 months and can not afford shoes or hay for him. A good home is a must!
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “I believe ALL horses need a JOB besides making more horses. Before they’re bred, they need to earn the right to do so.”
I agree with that, although there are exceptions. I own three of those exceptions. I cannot afford to show at this time, although I have no doubt whatsoever that mine would be competitive. While many can say to that, “then you shouldn’t own horses” if that is the case, I say that I believe that if one has the knowledge to breed quality horses, then that can be done, show record or not. Along comes the vicious circle, where those who don’t show because they have inferior horses can claim the same knowledge to justify breeding their horses also. So, yes, the proof is in the show pen, for sure.
I am a firm believer that there should be a job for every horse on the place. I am also a firm believer that everything on a website should be spelled properly, but that is another story…
I have 4 competition mares that are in full time training and compete regularly and are winning lots of awards.
I have 3 young stock at the moment that are going through warmblood inspections, branding, breed shows, etc. and will be sold to competition homes when the right buyer comes along.
I have 7 broodmares-that-should-not-reproduce on my farm. They have a job. They are pregnant. I use them as recipient mares for my really nice mares so my nice mares can stay in competition. Works great. (For those of you not familiar with embryo transfer, I get my good mares pregnant, and the vet flushes the embryo out of them and puts it in another mare to carry to term so I can get babies from my competition mares while they stay in competition). This is a great job for these fugly mares – they are great mothers, teach good manners to their foals, and they aren’t passing on their genes.
I also have 3 fugly geldings that I use for lesson horses and they love it.
I mean, what is the point of owning a horse that you don’t do anything with (unless it is seriously injured or rescued or something). That is like letting your 30-year-old-son live in your house rent free because you want the company. NOT good for the beneficiary in the long run, even if they don’t realize it until they are 40 and single!
FHOTD – I think you should highlight the job that mares can have as recipient mares where they can be mothers but don’t pass on their own genes. I think this is an excellent job for lots of these kind of mares.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “I toldya I had a list!! No kidding, I’ve been keeping a list of crap foundation breeders for about a year now, because I’ve been so fed up with their bs.”
I have a huge photo collection, too, although it’s for APHA homozygous Tobianos. They’re no different than these foundation breeders, either. Same no-pedigree shit, different color.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “I believe ALL horses need a JOB besides making more horses. Before they’re bred, they need to earn the right to do so.”
I agree with that, although there are exceptions. I own three of those exceptions. I cannot afford to show at this time, although I have no doubt whatsoever that mine would be competitive. While many can say to that, “then you shouldn’t own horses” if that is the case, I say that I believe that if one has the knowledge to breed quality horses, then that can be done, show record or not. Along comes the vicious circle, where those who don’t show because they have inferior horses can claim the same knowledge to justify breeding their horses also. So, yes, the proof is in the show pen, for sure.
Well, it doesn’t NECESSARILY have to be the show pen. But the proof is, in fact, in the horse’s performance.
Rodeos, large working ranches and several other outlets enable a horse to be ‘proven’ without necessarily ‘showing’ it.
I just want a horse to be broke is all. I think it’s foolish to breed an unbroke horse to another unbroke horse and expect the resulting offspring to be something terrific…
Though I have seen several mares, and even stallions, that were injured by circumstances COMPLETELY UNRELATED to conformation or anything genetic that went on to be superior producers. So if the bloodlines and conformation are there, I can see giving a horse a chance. Coosa Lad comes to mind. And a mare that some people around here bought who was injured VERY severely as a youngster, but who is a Nu Cash daughter and has produced some outstanding money earners. And I’m sure there is many more than that.
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule.
And, yes, there will be people who will claim to be the exception even when they are most certainly THE RULE and NOT the exception.
But hey, that’s life.
EPIPHANY – Excellent points, especially about the recip mares.
Regarding jobs for horses – Mine are perfectly capable of having a job (and excelling), no doubt, except for one who is injured. So do I sell them (instead of breeding them) because they don’t have jobs? They have everything going for them except performance records; they have excellent conformation, bloodlines, good disposition, etc.
While I believe that the proof of a horse’s capabilities are in performance, it is no guarantee of a quality breeding animal, either.
Epiphany – that is a very good point. Those mares can indeed perform a very important job.
I had a friend who would just take her show mare’s baby and give it to her old broodie who was such a good milk producer she could nurse two at a time, and loved all babies and would accept them as her own. I am sure that is not always a good idea, but it worked for her and the babies did well – in fact, one raised that way is her breeding stallion today.
omg!! that link pissed me off!! of course they can do something about it!! who gives a damn if tis the “goverment” Lord hell mercy..
and what’s up with that black stallion?? somethings up with his hip..it’s like..all freakin bony and crooked..he def shouldn’t be a stud..i’m not suprised if that fat crook doesn’t nueture his dogs if he has any…just neuture em!! he’s not gonna cry cause he lost his nuts!
Saw this on some “rescue” site. This rescuer also breeds fugly mares to her fugly stallion so the killer buyers are sure to have a full load.
Remi is going with me to the trainers tomorrow to “evaluate” her to see what we believe her potential is and what it will take to make her a sheriff’s mount. She is doing well, but seems to be a bit accident prone. She now has two scratches on her belly and tore off the scab on her bottom leg. Who knows how she did that! Crossing my fingers she doesn’t hurt herself in the trailer again. She is a bit hard to load and trailer and works herself up into a frenzy, but we are making progress. We went for a small trailer ride today and came home and went for a small trail ride. She did good. Did a 180 on me once, I got off and walked her a bit, and then we rode back. Did some trot and lope work at home and then put her away.
Ummmm, hate to be the bearer of bads news here, but I doubt very seriously this horse will even make a good trail horse, much less a sheriff’s mount.
Uh-oh…The folks who have the fugly spotted TWHs wrote again to me thinking that I was a hoax, and I invited them to come and see us here! Should be interesting. I will let you all know if I hear from him again.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD and DONTYOURIDENOFUGLYHORSE: Regarding the foundation QH breeders, thought I’d share this I found in an old book:
Dewey Steele said in 1949, about breeding QHs, “Pedigrees only mean something when they represent selective breeding. When there has been more propagation rather than selective breeding in the immediate ancestry, there is little significance to a pedigree.â€
Pretty profound, huh? All that high percentage this and high percentage that means nothing. Selective is not the word. Selective (as in horse breeding) means being selective about your breeding stock, AND the horses that you are duplicating in a pedigree.
Here’s yet another breeder of fine paints and QHs. But don’t worry, the hernia closed up. LOL
http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1187111300
There are more fine examples of these people’s breeding further down the page.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD and DONTYOURIDENOFUGLYHORSE: Regarding the foundation QH breeders, thought I’d share this I found in an old book:
Dewey Steele said in 1949, about breeding QHs, “Pedigrees only mean something when they represent selective breeding. When there has been more propagation rather than selective breeding in the immediate ancestry, there is little significance to a pedigree.â€
Pretty profound, huh? All that high percentage this and high percentage that means nothing. Selective is not the word. Selective (as in horse breeding) means being selective about your breeding stock, AND the horses that you are duplicating in a pedigree.
Definantly profound. And something I will definantly use in conversation. Thanks for posting that, it warmed my heart.
it only MIGHT be a hernia… in other words, we didnt bother to ring a vet or have it treated in any way.
Here’s another fine CL ad:
Registered 16 hand blood bay beef tank! AQHA papers. Loads great. hasn’t been rode in a few months. must sell. worth double what i’m asking just don’t have time. $2000 with papers. total doll! first cash offer takes him home.
They should just drive him to the kill pens themselves!
Bleh. I’m sure some sucker will pay $700 because the horse is black.
Don’t get me wrong, black is my favorite horse color. But I like it better when it’s on a horse that doesn’t look like it was put together by my Parkinson’s stricken-grandmother.
Can someone explain to me,or send me a link,how to look at a shoulder for correct conformation?
Thank you
Hoosierhorsegirl: the main thing to look for in a horse’s shoulder is the angle. You should be able to draw a 45 degree angle on the shoulder blade. Horses with upright shoulders usually look like they’re on stilts or something… they just don’t look comfortable even when they’re standing still.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_conformation#Conformation_of_the_chest.2C_shoulder.2C_and_forearm
Yes, the link above is from wicked Wikipedia, but it has some good info in it. Be sure to study the photos provided. Looking at photos and horses in real-life is the best way to learn.
I like to look at conformation from the trapezoid theory, with the rule of thirds…
this is a great article on it.
http://www.danmcwhirter.com/home/articles/0507TheTrapezoid.pdf
Hmm, for some reason the link I copied and pasted turned out funky. Here’s the link to the general article, just scroll down to the topic of shoulders and forelegs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_conformation
Here is another beauty in my area. A wild welsh stud that has no handling and they are a so called rescue adopting him out as a potential stud. I just wrote a scathing letter letting them know what idiots they are and that they are making the problems worse. SOME RESCUE. check it out and let the idiots know what you think!!!
http://www.trentriders.com/cgi-bin/bizdir/bizdir.pl?details&newest&1187105511&
This is bad:
http://equine.com/Horses/ad_details.aspx?lid=488431
This is worse:
“This is crazy. This Girl who has this horse is a mere 18 years old, ,and can’t even begin to tell you about her as the list is long. She had it in her head that she wanted a foal so somehow she came upon some people who had this horse. It was actually a rescue horse they got from somewhere. She traded some stuff to these people to get the horse even though she had no where to take it because she strickly wanted the foal to raise. She had the horse dropped off at someones house I know without even asking. This person was HOT and told her to get the horse out and taken somewhere else as he has 20 other horses worth quite a bit and lord knows what deseases this horse could have had. This horse was completely abused by someone and is an ABSOLUTE MANIAC . It was severely underweight and would NOT let ANYONE near it let alone a man. It also was very scar’d up from what I am guessing is abuse. I feel for the horse and the Stupid people the horse has had to deal with, then and now. In my opinion this horse will NEVER be a horse that will trust again and if someone did want to work with it, be advised that it will probably take years and any foal it produces now would most likely be a handful too with possible health issues. And I don’t believe anyone really know what she is in foal with. The girl Leanna took this horse to another farm in Lapeer off merwin road who was supposedly a trainer. I am quite sure the people she took it to board & Train were not informed correctly what the problems with this horse actually were. and I am guessing that they quickly realized that this horse had severe issues and have told her also that the horse is too far gone to be saved and that it has to go. (of course that is speculation on my part) Anyways I feel extremely sorry for this horse, it is certainly has had a tough life and maybe being humanly euthanized is the only option. This ad about going to the Killers clearly reiterates the stupidity of the owner as too me it shows she is only wanting money now and has no concern over the horse. But that is just my thoughts.”
(Quoted words not mine.)
Oh, oh, oh! Yes! Here is one of my pet peeves… People stating that their horse can trace it’s ancestry back to Three Bars, Poco Bueno, Leo, etc. BFD.
I’d say it would be more rare to find a QH that couldn’t trace their lineages back to a famous QH stallion.
Then they name them with everything they can think of like “Zantanon’s Smokey Two-Eyed Bar Leo Poco Doc-O-Jack-A-Lena” Yeehaa.
I’ve got a gelding that is heavy on Ed Echols and Piggin String. How about that for braggin rights. He’s not too bad looking and works well, but he’s sound and 13 years old. Works for me.
Well, aside from the obvious problems with this horse, I DO believe that breeding stock paints have a very good and valid spot in the APHA breeding industry.
We own an own son of a Lifetime Leading Sire in the APHA. His damsire is also on that list. Yes, he is a solid. Some of you have big problems with OLWS – most (almost safe to say that none do) solids do not carry the OLWS gene and so are very useful to keep that “paint” blood there, but avoid the lethal white foal, and still acquire color. (Although I am of the belief that my solid paint is NOT just a quarter horse, which is where some folks disagree, and that’s their prerogative!)
Our fellow has bred 14 times in four years, both to personal and outside mares. The only live solid colored foal he had was crossed on a QH mare (owners realized they were going to get a solid more than likely but liked him so much they were willing to take the resulting solid APHA foal because he was a great cross on their mare). We also had a solid foal aborted about 8 months into the pregnancy by one of our senior mares. Other than that, he has been bred to mares that have a variety of color patterns – from wildly colored to minimal color, and produced color every time. We believe he carries some color patterns and so does contribute to the color production even if it isn’t expressed.
Color is nice, but it’s the icing on the cake. He throws very nice, correct, big bodied, sound minded, and ABLE foals… that they also have color is a bonus. I’ve always considered this – very good cake is very good cake, regardless of the icing – nice icing can compliment a great piece of cake. Nice icing cannot make a terrible piece of cake taste good. Nor can nice color make a terrible horse a nice one. Our stallion is a great choice for our mares – all of whom are correct, and colored… no chance of a lethal white, but lots of chance for color on a nice foal.
Just sayin’, from an APHA side of things, that I believe that solids are important and valuable, though some don’t believe they are (and I know it will be years and years and possibly never before some people get the idea out of their head that a solid is a castoff or a cull from their breeding program). APHA is finally taking some steps to reassure people that they’ve got a good horse on their hands one way or the other, and I’m so thankful!
Your post reminded me that I need to sell my cornet. It’s spelled with one t, but the joke was cute anyway.
Amanda,
It sounds like you are breeding your horse for the right reasons. Great quality horse with color as a secondary issue, bred selectively.
I have a roaning out appaloosa four year old that I was given as a foal; her breeder was very disappointed that she did not have flashy appaloosa color. She is a good young mare now, learning fairly easily; it isn’t her fault she isn’t a blanket appaloosa.
Color is fun but not the most important thing. Conversely it isn’t wrong to enjoy the color.
AMANDA – I agree with most of your comments. Any horse that is a quality example of its breed is worth breeding, color or not. What I don’t agree with you about is OLWS. A horse that is a carrier of OLWS has nothing wrong with it (unlike HYPP N/H, where the horse with one copy of the defective gene can have symptoms and die). Only when bred to another carrier can an OLWS positive horse produce a lethal white foal. It’s simple to avoid. Just test everything and don’t breed positive to positive.
Many solids DO carry OLWS because many are produced from Overo parents who do carry the gene. The amount of white on a horse has nothing to do with its OLWS status.
Whats wrong with just riding and enjoying your horse. Also is there something wrong with breeding your mare if you intend to keep the baby for yourself? I board, so breeding is not an option for me. But when I get my own land, I plan on getting a baby for myself out of my mare (she is registerd) Is that backyard breeding? Please no harsh attacking comments just honest opinions with factual backing. A little background on myself…I grew up with 17 horses. I don’t know if we were backyard breeders. I do know that we started with 7 mares, keept making babies, but never put a one up for sale. I know my step father was really into bloodlines and paid over $10,000 for one of his mares in the 1990′s. I can give you the outcome of the horses when Danny got Brian Cancer and died, but I will save that for another post. With that said I’ve been a horse owner for 2 years. I now know why my mom threw a fit when I was going to get into horses…17 of them… when my mare so far had cost me about 3,000 a year (I board and she coliced on me, plus I call a vet every stinking time for wattery eyes and snotty noses.)
cenedra, so what was the purpose of allowing all those horses to be born? What did they all do? Were they all provided training and taught a job? Were they all ridden and given proper care? Vaccinations, dewormings, teeth floating, etc.? If you simply allow horses to be bred and born willy nilly with no thought to their long term useage or their futures, then yes you are an irresponsible breeder. Not attacking, just stating a fact.
cenedra91, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just riding and enjoying your horse. I have never set foot in a show ring except in a professional capacity in my life and never intend to. Even when I was working as paid livery to a person who did driving shows I hated every single moment of it. So I am firmly in the “I have horses because I enjoy being with them, not because I enjoy showing or anything else” camp.
To your other question, though, “What is wrong with breeding your mare if you plan to keep the baby?”…
Well, for one here in the U.S. we had 90,000 horses go to slaughter in one year. Each new horse brought into this world can add to that number of unwanted, unneeded, uncared for horses.
You say you only want to breed to keep it yourself and many people feel the same way but life is unpredictable and you never know what tomorrow will bring. Few horses ever live a full life with the same person who bred them. You have to think of possibilities and probabilities. It is possible that you will keep that horse for it’s entire life, but it is more probable that at some point or another you will need to find that horse a new home. In todays over populated market unless your mare is a true champion in her own right with almost ideal breeding and conformation and unless she is bred to a stallion of equally high quality the reality is that while her foal may be “nice” it will not likely stand out from the crowd any more than any other “nice” horse.
In a market where you can buy very nice weanlings for less than the cost of a breeding fee to a quality stud it doesn’t even make economic sense to breed.
It’s simple, no matter how sad it may be for those of us who would love to breed but feel morally as if we can not, there are already too many horses with no home and no place to go. It is poor stewardship of these beautiful beasts we have been blessed with to breed anything less than the best to preserve our breeds while so many of them die unwanted and uncared for.
Cendra91 -
There’s nothing wrong with breeding responsibly.
That means that you look beyond the love and loyalty you have toward your mare, and look at her conformation. If she has conformational flaws like a straight shoulder, long low pasterns, long back, ewe neck, roach back, short croup, cow hocks, sickle hocks,,, etc… she’s not breeding quality. These traits while certainly unattractive, also make it very difficult for a horse to perform properly and maintain soundness.
If your mare is nicely conformed AND you find a stallion that has excellent conformation AND possesses a brain (temperament is as important as conformation) then yes, perhaps a quality baby will be the result.
Here’s a helpful webpage:
http://www.equiworld.net/uk/horsecare/conformation/index.htm
That said – what’s wrong with purchasing a baby that’s already on the ground? There are literally thousands and thousands of babies already. Why produce more? Don’t say because it’s cheaper to “make your own” – it’s really isn’t. Pregnant mare care, special nutritional needs, vet calls, etc – those costs really pile up.
Just think it through carefully. Instead of putting another baby on the ground, consider taking in one that might need to be “rescued.” there are plenty of nicely put together babies out there living in horrible, neglectful conditions.
What are owls and white line?
cenedra, so what was the purpose of allowing all those horses to be born? What did they all do? Were they all provided training and taught a job? Were they all ridden and given proper care? Vaccinations, dewormings, teeth floating, etc.? If you simply allow horses to be bred and born willy nilly with no thought to their long term useage or their futures, then yes you are an irresponsible breeder. Not attacking, just stating a fact.
How can a 12 year old be an irresponsible breeder… I was the little girl who loved each and everyone of those horses..just to see each and everyone go to an auction when Danny got brain cancer.
I do know that the vet was less than 100 yards from our barn ironically so was the auction barn and each horse got wormed, trimmed, vaccinated, and fed regularly. Also the horses were in barb wire which I had to learn the hard way is not proper horse fence. (but nothing was done about the fence). The mares came trained and the babies well…they had me so they were more like dogs than horses.
OWLS is actually OLWS and stands for Overo Lethal White Syndrome. I don’t know all the details, but it is an inherited genetic mutation in which foals are born white, and die soon after birth. White line disease is a condition of the white line of the hoof. If you look at the sole of the hoof, there is kind of a white outline going from heel to heel. Often time, in wet and dirty conditions, a bacteria will exist in the mud that will affect the white line of the hoof, causing the tissue to basically rot.
A statement about breeding. At this point, I don’t think anyone needs to breed any horses at all. Responsible or not. There are too many here, and we just don’t need, nor can we support anymore horses. We don’t need sport horses, WP horses, god knows we don’t need anymore race horses. But I am a realist, and this is an industry, and industries need to continually need to manufacture. It’s a sad state of affairs and I really have no hope for the future of this species.
That said – what’s wrong with purchasing a baby that’s already on the ground? There are literally thousands and thousands of babies already. Why produce more? Don’t say because it’s cheaper to “make your own” – it’s really isn’t. Pregnant mare care, special nutritional needs, vet calls, etc – those costs really pile up.
I’m not opposed to getting a baby that is already here.. My mare is only 3 and like I said who knows if I’ll even consider it in 5 years…but it is food for though. I’ve taken her to 3 shows this year and she has placed top 3 or 4 in all her events…even with a mediocre rider on her. I would like an honest opinion on her confirmation, so if someone wants to “nicely” pick her apart (no comments like she aint’ worth a two dollar hooker) email me at mifish@gmail.com. I’ll get some more recent photos as she has grown a lot since her last one. ALso can you check out allbreedpedigree.com and type in cp amigas tejano and see her bloodline…are they decent, ok, or “at least she has papers?
Thanks for the information on owls and white line.
Cendra91
The Complete Rider
http://www.completerider.com will critique your horse:
If you wish a critique of your horse for breeding purposes send us at least 6 pictures and your breeding goals. This may be published as the above
E-Mail info@completerider.com subject line Conformation critique.
Complete Rider reserves all rights to answer and publish at their discretion.
Here’s another forum that might be helpful:
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/critique-my-horse/
It will be interesting to hear about the differences in evaluations.
4thehorses, I agree 100%. If all breeding stopped for at least one season, maybe the market could recover a little and some of the throw-away horses could get a nice home.
For the love of all that’s baked or fried, if you want a baby, buy a weanling. There are thousands to choose from. Don’t contribute to the problem by breeding.
like I said before the possiblites for babies in my life are approx. 5 years away… Plus with my luck I’ll end up with an overpriced fugly again if I have to pick on my own. (if in fact my mare is a fugly???)
cenedra91 said: “How can a 12 year old be an irresponsible breeder… I was the little girl who loved each and everyone of those horses..just to see each and everyone go to an auction when Danny got brain cancer.”
Cenedra, I think that is exactly what IncognitoMosquito and others are getting at, and underscores the point of this blog. You cannot control what happens in life. No matter how much you love your horses, and no matter whether or not you intend to keep that baby forever, at some point the unthinkable may happen and you could have to sell your horses. If your horses are well conformed, well bred, healthy, and have some useful purpose, they are much more likely to find good homes. Horses who are bred “because I want a baby”, regardless of deficient conformation, marketable bloodline, health issues, or no useful/marketable purpose – those are the ones most likely “each and every one go to an auction”. I’m NOT saying your childhood horses were crap – just using that to illustrate the example. Please think very carefully and do lots of research before deciding whether or not to breed your mare. As others have pointed out, unless there is some spectacular reason to breed yours (using your horse show example, if she is placing consistently well at a regional and/or national level – not just local open or 4-H horse shows) it is probably a much better (and more economical) decision to buy something already on the ground than to breed.
Here’s another burr in my saddle blanket – http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1187140532
This place is a rescue that breeds. I questioned them about their breeding, and they informed me that it’s their breeding the funds the rescue. Oy!
And I was not pointing the finger at you personally, Cenedra. I’m sure you did love your horses. I sure loved mine growing up. Although if all your horses ended up at auction…well….nuff said. The point is simple, don’t breed unless you know exactly what you’re doing, have a plan for the baby/ies, are furthering/enhancing the breed/bloodline. Bottom line, don’t do it for fun or because you think you’ll make money.
4thehorses said…
Here’s another burr in my saddle blanket – http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1187140532
This place is a rescue that breeds. I questioned them about their breeding, and they informed me that it’s their breeding the funds the rescue. Oy!
Good grief *shaking head*
They have an “amazing” “pure white” “rare” QH mare for sale in foal to their Friesian stud. Um, she’s a Cremello. Doh.
Very few breeders actually make money off their foals. If a breeder properly cares for the mare while she is pregnant and the foal after it is born, the stud fee is the least of the expenses. Most successful (by this I mean people who are breeding because of their love for the breed and their intentions to improve the breed)breeders know that they will be lucky to make a few hundred dollars on a foal, after expenses. This does not justify breeding for money.
I know a couple who has been breeding Morgans for years who recently came up with not one but two foals that are conformationaly challenged. These horses are neither pretty, despite great parentage, nor will the ever make great performers, again despite world champion bloodlines. The couple is paying a great trainer to train both of the foals (now 3 & 4) just to give them a fighting chance in this world. They intend to sell both horses as companion horses or trail /fun riding horses, which means that they will lose money on both of the horses. But being a responsible breeder has its price.
And I was not pointing the finger at you personally, Cenedra. I’m sure you did love your horses. I sure loved mine growing up. Although if all your horses ended up at auction…well….nuff said. The point is simple, don’t breed unless you know exactly what you’re doing, have a plan for the baby/ies, are furthering/enhancing the breed/bloodline. Bottom line, don’t do it for fun or because you think you’ll make money.
The brain cancer came on suddenly. When we found out he had brain cancer he died within a few weeks. All the horse went to auction just because they didn’t know what else to do…If I remember correctly “there was no time to find them good homes”. My mother and step-father split maybe 6 mo before this happened (maybe the brain cancer had something to do with it) so All horses were left to his teenage son who lived in California. (the horses were located in Fruitland MO) I’ve always wondered what happened to them past the auction. When I left the farm all horses were in excellent condition, so I don’t think they were horse meat. Back then horses were still getting good money at auctions. (of course that was the prespective of a 12 year old…Oh yeah the auction was also my first job. I broke ponies for them. They’d come in on Friday, I’d throw a saddle on them on Saturday and they’d go through the ring on Sunday. I also “poked cows in the butt to get them through the ring. I had no idea what I was doing at the time. I hope I saved some of the ponies from slaughter as they were sold broke to ride
And ummm…what KIND of stallions are those on her for sale page? It never says. Best of all, look at the back legs on the filly Athena-WTF?
And, ummm…would someone please feed that Palomino stallion?
Another thing about breeding vs. buying: Breeding the best to the best increases your chances of getting a quality horse out of the breeding but does not insure it. You could breed two fantastic horses and still end up with something not appropriate for what you want or need.
By buying a young horse that is already on the ground you can evaluate it’s mind and body and have a better chance of getting what you want out of the deal. Even buying a young horse can be a gamble because they can grow up to be less than their potential but it still gives you a better shot of getting something useful.
My trainer normally charges about $165 a mo for board. If your mare is pregnant that goes up to around $400 a month for mare care before the foal even hits the ground..needless to say I haven’t seen a pregnant mare there! Can someone put down on paper the approx. costs of a foal from mare supplements to after the foal is born? My father-in-law (new proud owner of an unbroke 3 year old) wants to breed her and I’m telling him no, maybe if I can get my hands on list of factual costs that will deter him.
Having never bred and foaled out my own horse I can’t really put a cost on it, but another thing to consider when breeding is the risk to your mare.
When I was a teen I worked at a farm and my favorite of their mares ended up having a foal breech. She was almost a month early and was well into her labor before she was found in her stall almost dead. The foal was already dead when the vet arrived, and had to be removed in pieces in order to save the mare. The mare died anyway.
It is a VERY real risk. I’ve known people with mares who had severe nerve damage from dystocia (slow or difficult delivery) and been crippled because of it. I’ve also known people who had mares retain a small portion of placenta and end up foundered and full of infection.
In cases like that the cost sky rockets and many times you don’t even end up with a live foal.
That’s my point cenedra. You never know what’s going to happen in life and if you’ll have to get rid of your horses. Be responsible and don’t take on more than you can handle. I strongly recommend you don’t breed your horse. Every post you make only reinforces to me that you shouldn’t. Oh and Google is a wonderful thing, start researching. Why do we have to do it for you?
Actually, the best way to find out the cost (since veterinary cost varies greatly from region to region and even from vet to vet) is to call your vet and ask questions such as:
What standard care is recommended for a mare from the time of choosing to breed until weaning of the foal?
What is the cost of farm calls?
What is the cost of each portion of care for mare and foal through weaning (you will need to know what they consider standard care before asking this question so you can ask about each thing such as shots, vet checks, ultrasounds if needed, hormone supplements if needed, etc.)?
What is the cost of an emergency farm call?
What is the recommended care aside from that done by the vet (worming, feed, etc.)?
This will give you a MUCH more realistic idea of the actual costs that would be involved for you in your area. Your veterinarian should have no problem giving you this sort of information over the phone. My own vet has a wonderful receptionist who answers these sorts of questions for me with pleasure each time I call.
Yep, I’m always suspicious about cheap horses. However I’v seen great paint babies sold out under $1000 (old breeder broke legs and just tried to get read of 60 or so horses).
This is a discussion and it claims to be an educational board. I’ve simply asked questions…if you don’t want to do my “research” for me then don’t respond. Like I’ve said before I am in no position now to consider a foal, but it is fun to discuss and get other people’s opinion. You don’t have to worry about me, but what is wrong with discussion and “dreaming”? This stuff is really useful from someone with an open mind and the willingness to learn. If I am going outside your threshold and no one finds my opinion or situation valid then there is nothing more to discuss. I am however really excited about TJ’s placing in the show ring and can’t wait to see what she will do next year after her training progresses… Even if she does great it still doesn’t mean I’m going to breed her, but I also won’t rule it out (we will see what happens in five years) I am sure I’m not the only one in my position that wants a baby out of their mare, but I am discussing it and also on a 5 year plan. I won’t claim to even know a smidgen about what you guys know, that is why I’m discussing and NOT Doing.
I’ve already called my vet and she is putting something together for my father-in-law. I told her to stack up the costs too, so he won’t want to breed Gracie.
cendra91- throwing a saddle on a horse a day before the auction just to make an extra buck is NOT ‘broke to ride’. I have spent months saddle breaking my mare to saddle, not an afternoon.
And FYI, meatpen buyers will buy anything, sickly or not. Many healthy, fit horses have gone throught the auction and been sold to the killers.
I’m not trying to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.
It’s not just the cost of vet care that’s a concern. It’s also do you have the proper fencing, do you have cross fencing or a separate paddock for the mare and foal at weaning time, etc., etc., etc. When I suggested Google, I was not only thinking of cost, but everything else involved in having a foal/raising a foal.
Color shouldn’t influence your decision to breed. Look at your mare as if she were a plain chestnut or bay, and judge her conformation alone.
Cenedra,
I think that that comment was also meant as “it may even be faster for you to get the info through Google yourself”
Hey, plan away-I applaud you. If you spend 5 years planning, and researching, I think you can do well.
Oh, and if you decide your mare isn’t quite what you want to breed, for any reason, don’t worry! Look around your area for a breeder. Research breeder and their horses. Visit the farm. If that looks like a place that would provide you with the quality of horse you desire, build a relationship with the breeder. Then you may get to help plan the breeding, take a role in the mares pregnancy (like be there when she’s getting hoof care, grooming her, etc. so that you can learn what she’s TRULY like), and see the foal from early on.
MOST folks I know who are GOOD breeders have an operation where they are proud for you to meet the mares. And an extra hand, offered in the “Tell me how YOU want it done” context is often VERY welcome, AND educational.
Another option-volunteer with a rescue. Offer to handle/socialize the young horses. In 5 years you will learn a LOT of what to do, how to do it, and how NOT to…
Good luck with your mare’s training and shows!
Gracie is an appaloosa. She is the Daughter of Zip me Impressive n/n, 16 + hands. She is a blue roan to boot. I am really trying hard to get her trained instead of bred. I think I might actually succeed in this one
I’m going through the wife to do it…”wouldn’t it be nice to take the grandchildren on a sleigh ride this christmas” ect.!
Gracie is not mine..She is my father-in laws. He is a new horse owner and really doesn’t know a thing.
Oh, and if you decide your mare isn’t quite what you want to breed, for any reason, don’t worry! Look around your area for a breeder. Research breeder and their horses. Visit the farm. If that looks like a place that would provide you with the quality of horse you desire, build a relationship with the breeder. Then you may get to help plan the breeding, take a role in the mares pregnancy (like be there when she’s getting hoof care, grooming her, etc. so that you can learn what she’s TRULY like), and see the foal from early on.
What a great idea!!! Never thought of that one !!! I even like that one better!
cenedra91, I applaud your efforts to educate yourself, however you go about doing it. I am a research fiend. I have a dog here of a breed I spent over a decade researching before I finally brought him into my home. Knowledge is power, no matter what the subject may be. This discussion will help others who might be hesitant to speak up and ask questions on their own.
Also, Lucky’s advice is spot on. Finding a mentor in breeding who produces quality horses is a fantastic way to learn, and helping a rescue will most certainly add an important perspective to your education with horses and breeding.
cenedra91 said…
I’ve already called my vet and she is putting something together for my father-in-law. I told her to stack up the costs too, so he won’t want to breed Gracie.
The thing is is… it’s a matter of how much care you give your mare and foal.
If you decide the mare doesn’t need anything extra, she can foal on pasture with the other horses, and the foal doesn’t need anything besides routine worming and vaccinations… then the out of pocket cost is very little.
Which is why there are so many unscrupulous breeders creating foal after foal… they don’t really go out for any of the ‘out of pocket’ stuff, and if the baby doesn’t sell as a weanling, it’s off to the auction as a yearling or two year old. So very many people do that, it’s not even funny.
The reality of it all is… if he’s just starting out in horses, he has no business breeding them until he gets a lot more knowledge under his belt. There are already SO MANY people out there breeding and creating more mediocre horses that fill the market… why not encourage him to break and use the mare he has, and if he wants a baby, go to an auction and buy one for $100… there are a lot of them going for that, unfortunately.
The reality of it all is… if he’s just starting out in horses, he has no business breeding them until he gets a lot more knowledge under his belt. There are already SO MANY people out there breeding and creating more mediocre horses that fill the market… why not encourage him to break and use the mare he has, and if he wants a baby, go to an auction and buy one for $100… there are a lot of them going for that, unfortunately.
I couldn’t agree with you more…He has left me in charge of finging “gracie a boyfriend”. Needless to say that was back in March and I told him I haven’t found one yet, although I really have been looking just for fun. Even if I do find one, I won’t tell him.
What it says:
“i AM ONLY SELLING BECAUSE I HAVE NO TIME FOR HIM AND HE HAS BECOME JUST A YARD ORNAMENT”
What it means:
“i only kept him because I thought I’d make some money breeding him, but nobody is interested in breeding their nice mare to a nothing horse from a nothing barn with no color and no training so I’m going to pawn him off on some ignorant person who thinks they’ll make lots of money on stud fees, ha ha”
**Insert appropriate misspellings and incorrect tenses, I passed 8th grade English so I can’t make myself do it**
Also, it pisses me off that I couldn’t GIVE away a perfectly nice, clean, FREE couch on Craigs List but these people will manage to sell this poor horse. *sigh*
cenedra91, It is frustrating when someone we care about makes choices that we don’t agree with. If he insists on breeding you can’t really stop him but you can express your concerns and if he goes through with it you can try to guide his choices so that at the very least mare and foal have someone with knowledge looking out for their best interest.
I have a family member I very much love and care for who is a terrible backyard dog breeder. Well, to be fair she uses properly health tested (hips, eyes, elbows and ears, as well as breed specific testing for things common in each breed of dog she uses) AKC registered parents from good lines to produce her designer mutts. She prices them reasonably and does home checks and has a strict contract. She also has a waiting list for her pups so that they have homes before the mating even takes place, so perhaps “terrible backyard dog breeder” is less than entirely accurate, but she still know how I feel about it and we still love each other anyway.
I know I can’t stop her, but it still frustrates me to see page after page of *oodle and Poo* mixes on petfinder.com while she breeds them intentionally. It is frustrating enough when strangers do it, but when it is family it tempts me to bang my head against the wall repeatedly.
BTW, you know how, if you see an objectionable ad on Craig’s List you can flag it, and if it gets enough flags it’s deleted? We should pick, like three ads a day and all go and flag them and get them OFF there. I’d be willing to take the time to go flag a few ads every day if I knew you guys would too, and if someone would be in charge of picking which ads to flag and let us all know. I’d offer to do it but I only have a computer at work, so anytime I get on the internet I have to hide it from my boss!
CENEDRA91 – I can tell from looking at the pedigree of your mare that she wouldn’t be breeding quality, nor would she be capable of contributing to the Paint breed in a positive way no matter which stallion she was bred to. Your mare’s sire line after the grandsire is totally unknown, she has no notable horses in her pedigree in the first four generations. Her sire and grandsire have done nothing and sired nothing. Her dam’s pedigree is not any better. And, looking at her photo (and her ancestors’ photos) at APHA confirms my suspicions. She has a very short croup, her neck ties in way too low at the chest, and she has a long back, just for starters. She is your typical, everyday, common bay Tobiano with an obscure pedigree. My advice is not to breed her. Ever. There are way too many horses out there just like this, and they are not worth much. But you can enjoy her by riding her and showing her and giving her a good home.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
CENEDRA91 – I can tell from looking at the pedigree of your mare that she wouldn’t be breeding quality, nor would she be capable of contributing to the Paint breed in a positive way no matter which stallion she was bred to. Your mare’s sire line after the grandsire is totally unknown, she has no notable horses in her pedigree in the first four generations. Her sire and grandsire have done nothing and sired nothing. Her dam’s pedigree is not any better. And, looking at her photo (and her ancestors’ photos) at APHA confirms my suspicions. She has a very short croup, her neck ties in way too low at the chest, and she has a long back, just for starters. She is your typical, everyday, common bay Tobiano with an obscure pedigree. My advice is not to breed her. Ever. There are way too many horses out there just like this, and they are not worth much. But you can enjoy her by riding her and showing her and giving her a good home.
She did have lineage with two eyed jack on sires side before I got her… After I got her there was something with the fathers DNA, but I was told that his lineage is about to be reinstated. Do you have an email addy I can give you more current pics of her becauseI looked at her croup and it is not short like the ones you have on this website for examples (I am not arguing the fact that she shouldn’t be bred by anymeans) Ps how did you come up with pics on her??? Two Eyed Jack and Sonny Dee are on her papa’s side.
cenedra, earlier you said “I am however really excited about TJ’s placing in the show ring and can’t wait to see what she will do next year after her training progresses…”
That is exactly how I feel about my gelding, and in this respect a mare is no different. Ride, train, love on, spoil, show . . . Continue to educate yourself and your father-in-law and enjoy what you have. No need to breed!!!
I would just like to add that just because a horse is not breeding quality that in no way diminishes it’s personal value as a wonderful and enjoyable animal and member of the family.
I have two remarkably fugly non-breeding quality horses in my pasture who should never ever pass on their genetics but who are the absolute joys of my life and who bring me so much pleasure and enjoyment that words can not even express the depth of my love for them. The fact that they have no business spawning offspring does not change that even one little bit.
Not being breeding quality in and of itself is not an insult, though many people take it as such.
It is not much different from the fact that my husband loves and values me even though I am not a rocket scientist nor a super model.
The other point here is that inexperienced horsepeople should not ever have a foal, whether they bred it or not.
Foals can be little monsters. They need experienced handling. You can create a huge problem by improper handling, and a spoiled beast that continues to get bigger and scarier.
Re the Paint mare you posted, here are some questions you need to answer: Were her parents and grandparents shown? How did they do? What does YOUR mare do? Does she have APHA points? Where is the market for the potential baby IF you had a catastrophic event occur and could not keep him/her? Who would train the baby? How much will that cost, and can you easily afford it? Do you have a place to separate mare and foal safely for weaning, or what is your plan in that regard?
In all honesty I never really planned on actually breeding
(because of TJ’s papers), but I did think if I came forth with my story and acted seriously about it, others who didn’t want to get “backlash” could learn from me. I am very impressed with the soluthing that goes on. I actually have no idea how you found pics of TJ or her relatives…I would be interested to see pics of them..
I do plan on keeping TJ until she dies, but if that fails I know she is very well taken care of and will be very well ridden. We do all kinds of stuff from the ground and my goal with her above the show ring is to make her safe enough for my little ones to ride down the road. I am a very protective mother and won’t put them on a horse at all yet.
CENEDRA91 – As an owner of an APHA Paint mare, you should be a member of APHA. On their website is APHA Plus, a subscription part of their website for members. This section shows the registration photos of most of the horses registered with APHA, along with pedigree, performance, production, ownership history, etc.
Geld the Fugly! said…
cenedra, earlier you said “I am however really excited about TJ’s placing in the show ring and can’t wait to see what she will do next year after her training progresses…”
That is exactly how I feel about my gelding, and in this respect a mare is no different. Ride, train, love on, spoil, show . . . Continue to educate yourself and your father-in-law and enjoy what you have. No need to breed!!!
AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!
WHY do people seem to think that they have to BREED THEIR HORSES ALL THE TIME?! Give me a BREAK. Breeding is NOT the holy grail of horse ownership, by any stretch of the imagination. If you feel that way, go breed something like gerbils or chickens or something that doesn’t have a major overpopulation issue like horses do.
Don’t create more 4 legged crapping machines that aren’t worth the paper used to print up their pedigrees. It’s not right, and it’s not fair to the horses.
Go on trail rides! Do search and rescue! Donate your time to a disabled riding program! Do SOMETHING ELSE… don’t BREED a horse that has little to nothing to add to the genetic equation! A horse can BE a good horse without being breeding quality, that’s for sure.
CENEDRA91 said, “She did have lineage with two eyed jack on sires side before I got her… After I got her there was something with the fathers DNA, but I was told that his lineage is about to be reinstated. Do you have an email addy I can give you more current pics of her becauseI looked at her croup and it is not short like the ones you have on this website for examples (I am not arguing the fact that she shouldn’t be bred by anymeans) Ps how did you come up with pics on her??? Two Eyed Jack and Sonny Dee are on her papa’s side.”
It doesn’t matter whether more pedigree information is eventually given on the sire. That doesn’t change the fact that her immediate ancestors were not high quality, successful horses. Yes, Two Eyed Jack and Sonny Dee Bar were good horses. But there are thousands of poor quality horses who have them in their pedigrees. Having a famous ancestor in the pedigree doesn’t change the quality of the horse itself.