Thank you, Craig, for the endless stream of material
Aug 14 2007
Today’s Craigslist stallion for sale! (Actually, unfortunately, one of many) My comments in blue.
$700.00 OBO. TO GOOD HOME. (Why do people say this? Do they honestly think the bad people say “oh, okay, this one can only go to a good home” and pass it by?) HE IS GORGEOUS AND SWEET AND PASSES IT ON TO HIS BABIES. (Considering he is worth $700, I wonder what the “gorgeous and sweet” babies are worth? Maybe 2 six-packs and tickets to a ball game?) HE WILL HALTER BREED (WHEN LEAD UP), AND WILL PASTURE BREED. (So will damn near anything with balls) APHA REGISTARD (We all know the comment I want to make, and I know it’s not P.C., but you all know what it is!) . ON HIS PAPERS ARE: “MISSLE STEP” (born 47 years ago, I think we can safely say this is not the sire and I’ll be surprised if it’s a grandsire) SIRE OF WORLD CHAMPS.,SUPERIOR HALTER CHAMPS.,SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE CHAMPS.,NRHA MONEY EARNERS, AND RACING MONEY EARNERS.- “MR. DENERO” APHA (aha, so this is a breeding stock Paint – because there is such a demand to breed to solid colored Paints!) 12 TIME GRAND CHAMPION, 8 TIME RESERVE CHAMP., AND SUPERIOR CHAMP HALTER HORSE.- “LITTLE JOE BAILEY” (foaled 41 years ago, again, not likely to be close up) GRAND HALTER CHAMP. AND RESERVE CHAMPION. HIS BLOODLINES ALSO INCLUDE HALL OF FAME HORSES “THREE BARS”, “JOE REED”, “JOE REED II” , “COMMANDO”, “MAN-O-WAR”, AND “PETER PAN” (Won the 1907 Belmont Stakes, in case you were wondering. Hey, in my next ad can I brag that my horse goes back to the Godolphin Arabian?) HE WAS BRED TO A PALAMINO PAINT, BAY PAINT, AND A CHESTNUT PAINT AND HE HAS ALWAYS PRODUCED BLACK AND WHITE OVEROS. ALTHOUGH I DO NOT GARENTEED (No one can spell this word, can they?). HE IS FOR A BREEDING HOME ONLY, HE CANNOT BE RIDDEN (how did I know that was coming?) BECAUSE OF A OLD CORNETT INJURY THAT HAPPENED BEFORE I BOUGHT HIM (He was at this Renaissance Faire and he tripped and fell over a cornett that someone had dropped, you see) WHEN HE WAS 2 YRS OLD- THE INJURY DOES NOT EFFECT (AFFECT, damn it) HIS BREEDING OR HIS HAPPY LIFE. i AM ONLY SELLING BECAUSE I HAVE NO TIME FOR HIM AND HE HAS BECOME JUST A YARD ORNAMENT (which is exactly what he should be!), AND ALTHOUGH HE IS PRETTY TO LOOK AT, HE NEEDS TO BREED! (He “NEEDS” to get gelded! “Yard Ornament” is the only thing he is qualified to do! You don’t NEED a lot of time for a yard ornament, but let’s face it, YOU don’t want to feed him all winter with the price of hay.) HE WILL COME WITH ALL INFORMATION AND FORMS NEEDED TO START YOUR BREEDING BUSSINES. (Oh yeah, Ms. Hooked on Phonics, ’cause I’d trust contracts coming from you, for sure!) CALL ME TO COME SEE HIM OR IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. [name and number redacted] PLEASE CALL FOR INFORMATION. I WILL CONSIDER A TRADE AS WELL. FOR TRACKTER (ROTFL!), OLDER BROKE HORSE, SADDLES, CORRAL PANNELS. PLEASE CALL ME [number repeated in case you forgot - we need to make sure you jump on this killer deal!]
The pictures are all bad – I can’t really judge the animal, except that he’s obviously got some cow hocks, but I don’t need to. He’s:
1) unrideable
2) unshown
3) solid color in a breed where color is what is desired
4) worth $700 to buy – right there I think that is ALWAYS enough reason to nix it for breeding. If it’s for sale for less than $5000, IT ISN’T STALLION QUALITY. And when I say $5000, I am thinking of $5000 as a weanling, when it just looks like it could potentially be stallion quality but has not accomplished anything yet.
And do not read that and then e-mail me about the stakes winning stallion you found at auction. Yes, I know it happens. I saw a winner of about $180K with a horrible, disgustingly swollen sheath area go for $200 at a low end auction some years back and yes, he did go to a rescuer. The racing industry is a beast unlike any other and the way it is set up, amazing horses can and do take a wrong turn occasionally (although it is also likely you will discover the $400,000 stakes winner you found at auction produces crappy foals or is sterile and there was some reason he was deliberately dumped and someone meant for him to disappear from the earth until you intervened). Bottom line, low value horses produce more low value horses and that’s what keeps the double-deckers filled up.
119 comments to “Thank you, Craig, for the endless stream of material”
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I was a member of APHA, but didn’t renew as I never used the website, there are no APHA shows in my area, and I wasn’t/ aren’t going to breed TJ. As a matter of fact (don’t tell TJ)..If my father-in-law hadn’t gotten TJ as yearling for me, I don’t think I would have gone down the paint avenue. Ask me about that one…
CENEDRA91 – Then why on earth were you entertaining the idea of breeding her?
I’ve entrtained the idea of going to Japan doesn’t mean I’m going to go there..plus I figured other people too might be thinking or entertaining the idea with their horses, so why not create some waves and get a discussion going. That way people who just read may learn from a potential mistake or get an honest opinion without having to actually come forward and actually do the typing…plus I’ve had a ton of Coffee today and it makes me a little goofy. I really appreciate all comments and input.
Hahaha, look what I found on my local craigslist-
“Need to find a nice home for are horse Might Miss. She is a ex race horse as well as a brude mare and she is 16 years old. We love her but are moving and need to rehome her with the right family. She is a big horsae but is very loving. We are asking 300 for an adoption fee”
^^^
Jeez, some people need to back to third grade.
Jeez, some people need to back to third grade.
Maybe should be
Jeeze, some people need to GO back to THE third grade..
Just kidding..my grammer and spelling is aweful. I just found it funny that you said something about them and used bad english!
I think we should have some basic rules, such as:
you cannot breed if you cannot spell BROODMARE.
arghhhhhh!
LOL. No kidding. I liked your idea of passing out Hooked On Phonics with the purchase of every horse.
What is wrong with saying “going back to third grade”? There wasn’t anything grammatically wrong with that. We say, “we’re going to church” or “we’re going to temple”. British say “we’re going to hospital”.
This site:
http://www.danceswithhorses.com/ That 4thehorses posted (from http://buyhorses.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1187140532)
They also have a “rare white doberman”. Um, no, not so rare. It’s also a true albino, with associated skin problems, and most have vision problems, and they can’t handle sunlight. Most photos of them are taken with them squinting. http://whitedobes.doberinfo.com/textframe4.html#photos for photos
http://whitedobes.doberinfo.com/textframe4.html#Problems
for problems.
Only people who promote “white” dobermans say stuff like “rare white dobermans” instead of saying “poor unhealthy albino dobermans which are all related to one dog that was born in 1976 and get marketed to suckers who don’t know anybetter”
One of the other sites listed here also is a BYBer (maybe even miller, depending on how many they breed. According to the USDA, you’re a “volume breeder” if you produce 30 dogs a year, which is three litters for some breeds) of border collies. Thankfully the dogs seem to be bicolor black, and not merle (which have their own lethal white gene, and the double merle gene leads to blindness and deafness, some dogs even born without functional eyes).
I guess I shouldn’t be too astounded that BYBers of horses are also BYBers of dogs, and that they don’t bother with conformation or long term health concerns of either. I own a show dog I might be breeding after I finish his hunting training. He’s gotten all his non-yearly health tests done, and he’s had the first testing done on the ones that need to be tested every year. I couldn’t imagine breeding him without these things being done, even before I look to what I want in his mate.
Whoa. This is bad enough to make me want to start drinking underage.
You think people would realize that decent spelling and grammar would help give them more credibility.
Also, one thing that bothers me in any ad is when there’s a decent to great horse, but the picture is terrible!
With pictures I want to see:
-Conformation shot
-Front shot, back shot
-Horse movement either under saddle or on a line.
Videos are good, too, if done properly.
Arabians4ever – what’s a brude mare? Perhaps it’s a misspelling of “brute” and the mare is a devil? : P
A LOT of the fugly horse breeders are also BYB’s of dogs. They are NEVER AKC dogs, either. They are always some phony baloney “send in money and get your certificate” registry.
I guess if you are going to exploit one animal you might as well exploit them all!
drile said…
“Arabians4ever – what’s a brude mare? Perhaps it’s a misspelling of “brute” and the mare is a devil? : P”
ROFL That’s my best guess !
“I mean, what is the point of owning a horse that you don’t do anything with (unless it is seriously injured or rescued or something). That is like letting your 30-year-old-son live in your house rent free because you want the company. NOT good for the beneficiary in the long run, even if they don’t realize it until they are 40 and single!”
I LOVE this analogy.
Amanda said:
“Many solids DO carry OLWS because many are produced from Overo parents who do carry the gene. The amount of white on a horse has nothing to do with its OLWS status.”
Sorry, I had to create an account to say this isn’t true. While I agree that breeding decisions should be colour blind, this statement is not supported by research. The reference information for the paper I am citing is “Santschi, Elizabeth M. (2001). Incidence of the endothelin receptor B mutation that causes lethal white foal syndrome in horses. Mammalian Genome. Vol. 9 pp306-309.” In this paper the author found that the likelihood of a horse being heterozygous for the OLWS allele was very closely correlated with the amount of white on the horse. The more white, the more likely the horse was a carrier. I can’t say for sure that it is impossible for a solid horse to be a carrier, but it is highly unlikely.
The horse won’t be completely solid, technically. BUT a horse with frame could have as little as a teeny snip, a white coronet or one blue eye. Im not sure about the amount of white corresponding to the likelihood of frame being present (‘likelihood’ sounds like a dodgy way of dealing with this, given that there are numerous other factors which could affect it – and of COURSE a horse with more white is more likely to carry frame, stands to reason) but I know frame is very easily affected by other patterns, and can be ‘hidden’ by tobiano or sabino quite easily. I don’t think the research is exact on what exactly happens here.
Besides that, many horses are labelled ‘solid’ that could carry more than one white pattern. sabino, splash and frame can all cause markings limited to the legs and head which I know, at least in the UK, are permittable on a ‘solid’ horse. In other words, ‘solid’ is usually used to describe a horse with no body white, and is often applied to horses with face and leg markings.
Now I’ve rambled incoherantly, I will go away.
Sorry, Artemis, those were forthefutureofthebreed’s words, not mine!!
forthefutureofthebreed – I don’t find anything wrong with a frame overo and frankly find those who feel that a frame overo, carrying OLWS is a “closet fugly” a little desperate to find a problem with an otherwise beautiful specimen of the breed! I don’t find a single thing wrong with them at all – my breeding program has been criticised here too, lol – our colored stallion (grandson of Jetalito and multiple versatility award winner, as well as futurity winner producer multiple times) carried several color patterns. When I chose to breed my Verses Tomboy frame overo mare, I chose to breed her to the experienced, “considerate” stallion, because I felt their personalities as well as bodies complimented one another. As a result, I got a loud colored frame overo filly. Could have gotten a lethal white. At that point, it was a risk I was willing to take. After that, we purchased our breeding stock stallion to breed to our frame mares and continued to breed the “colored” stallion to our tobiano and solid mares. Anywhoo, I guess my point is, yes, according to readers here, I played “russian roulette” with my horses but the resulting horse is BEAUTIFUL both inside and out, will make a FANTASTIC mount for my children and doesn’t have a whole lot wrong with her on the outside (she does have a plain head though). At this point in time, I can’t see myself breeding her – though she may be a reasonable match on our solid stallion as he has a beautiful compact head. I guess I am just rambling now, as I’m so thrilled with that result of “playing dangerously”. Would I do it again? Probably not. Do I regret it? Not at all. Last fall, I lost the filly’s dam to a painful bout of colic and her sire was PTS as he was losing quality of life because of a breathing condition (non hereditary!) and we couldn’t find it in our hearts to make him live through another winter. So she’s a very special filly.
I don’t think there’s a thing wrong with a frame horse. I don’t know about the likelihood of a lesser white horse carrying OLWS vs a higher amount of white, to be honest, but I sincerely believe that our solid stallion DOES carry a color pattern of some sort as I don’t think the odds are *that* fantastic.
As for those of you who were wondering if my “trainwreck” of a breeding program is still continuing – we have one mare in foal right now with a prospective futurity foal in her – a frame overo (and confirmed OLWS carrier!) bred to our solid stallion.
The rest are eating out of our “non business” money at this time because of the condition of the market.
look at this one:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/grd/396143762.html
at least they don’t mention her ‘great breeding potential’
*sigh*
Look, I gave you the research. My comment spoke only to the statement that the amount of white has nothing to do with the chances of creating an OLWS foal, which is directly opposed by the findings of this research project. The people took a large group of horses and tested them for the Lys118 mutation, which causes OLWS, then reported the frequency with which they found the mutation in horses with various patterns. The louder the pattern, the more horses in the group that had the mutation. This is where we get “likelihood”, as only an idiot looks at the results of one study and starts saying things like “always” and “never”. It’s possible there is a solid horse out there with the mutation, it’s just unlikely. These numbers are better evidence than individual anecdotes. If the numbers seem wrong to you, you are free to look up the paper at a university library and critique their methods. Keep in mind, though, that sometimes in research you get results that don’t fit with how you thought it worked. That is when you learn something, and adjust your theory accordingly.
“As a result, I got a loud colored frame overo filly. Could have gotten a lethal white. At that point, it was a risk I was willing to take.”
No. No no no. HOW can you admit to not feeling any regret over this? Would it have been so hard to find a good-natured stallion who didn’t carry frame? You would have had just as much chance of endign up with a loudly marked frame foal!
There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with a frame horse. Unless you count the fact they should NEVER be bred to another frame carrier. For many that would be a fault, but it isn’t actually a disadvantage, since with a little knowledge and responsibility, and minimal payout, this wouldn’t be a problem at all.
Artemis said…
this statement is not supported by research. The reference information for the paper I am citing is “Santschi, Elizabeth M. (2001). Incidence of the endothelin receptor B mutation that causes lethal white foal syndrome in horses. Mammalian Genome. Vol. 9 pp306-309.” In this paper the author found that the likelihood of a horse being heterozygous for the OLWS allele was very closely correlated with the amount of white on the horse. The more white, the more likely the horse was a carrier. I can’t say for sure that it is impossible for a solid horse to be a carrier, but it is highly unlikely.
It does happen, though. Two of our breeding stock broodmares had lethal whites the year before last. Interestingly enough, those girls are also good color producers. Too bad, they were beautiful foals
Their brothers had to go on and win a bunch of longeline stuff in their memories.