Discussion: Where are all the horse trainers?
Aug 11 2007
New post coming later, but I thought I’d put this out for discussion because I think it’s an extremely important factor that is causing the glut of unwanted horses in this country.
I’ve been looking for a horse for a friend who doesn’t have time to shop. Fuglies are welcome – breed is irrelevant, gender is irrelevant. We are just seeking something that is sound and well broke. I’m not talking about show broke – I’m talking about walks, trots, canters and has some concept of leads. We are just seeking a basically sound and safe novice-friendly horse – something on the lazy side. And so far, it is like banging my head against the wall. The majority of what I am looking at may have been trail ridden for years, but nobody ever trained it in the first place. It will follow another horse, but if you try to ride it independently, it is like riding a baby that has been under saddle for 2 weeks. It has no basic rhythm at the trot, and it takes all I have to hold it on a straight line. If I bought it and put 60 days on it, I could make it into a decent horse – but because it’s a grade fugly, I can put all the work I want into it and I will only succeed in upgrading it from a $500 horse to a $800 horse.
This experience has spotlighted one of the biggest problems with breeding the fuglies. I tend to bitch nonstop about people breeding them and then leaving them untrained, but at the cost of training these days, these horses will never be worth it. No amount of training is going to make them worth enough money to pay back the cost of the training. And that’s if you can even find a good trainer anymore who is interested in training a horse that is not show quality. Think about it. Who knows of a good trainer who (a) will take on a grade horse with no athletic ability or show potential and (b) will accomplish a reasonable amount with it in 60 days – by that I mean it walks, trots, and canters in a controlled manner, knows its leads and backs? Where are these people?
I don’t know when it happened but we seem to have a trainer shortage. I hear horror stories daily about people spending thousands on training and the horse still isn’t even green broke. What happened? Did people finally get wise to the fact that if you want to make money in horses as a trainer, you have to specialize in a breed/some competitive discipline that has big money horses? Did that leave only the bottom of the barrel, the lazy, the drunk, and the carrot-stick-twirling tricksters to break out the world’s grade fuglies and trail quality horses? There seem to have been a lot more qualified, affordable trainers 20 years ago than there are now.
What are you paying per month for training? Are you happy with the results? Is your trainer a specialist in a certain breed or event, or just someone who breaks whatever needs to be broke?
Is good, affordable training becoming so rare that you shouldn’t breed unless you can either train them yourself, have a trainer on staff, or afford the very substantial price tag to send them out to a really good trainer?
Discuss.
160 comments to “Discussion: Where are all the horse trainers?”
« Previous 1 2
« Previous 1 2
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment. Not a member? Registering is free, and you do it here!
The best trainers out there are not advertised.
I’ve been through a number of “trainers” who barely do anything with them, and I send my horses prepared (long-lined, lunged, backed with walking maybe trotting around and already went to a few in hand shows).
I’ve found very few are actually worth their salt, but those who are I have much respect for and what they put up with.
It’s also the DIY mentality in the US, that we do it ourselves until it’s broke, and we need someone to put a band aide to fix it. Unfortunately many band aides are not cheap and they take time which is what people don’t like or have.
Training, good training, is expensive. It’s the difference between Harvard and State U. Yeah, you might get the same degree, but the quality is vastly different from each other.
And there in lays the problem. We don’t think of it as education, but rather as training.
Meaning that we don’t think in terms of educating them like our offspring. Would you rather finance Harvard, for a better future, or would you rather pay the cheap Sate U. for the cheaper and sometimes, less quality education. T
his is a very big gap because we have a ton of nice horses out there, just not people (namely owners) who think in long-term educational standards.
Oh hell I wrote this two months ago and it sums it up fairly well (and yes, she is my coach and I’m proud of saying it):
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2007/dd_200706/dd_20070629.html
ridesforpleasure:
Sorry, I only travel to the horse’s home barn to do the teaching sessions. I can’t take in horses for training at this time, only go to other farms to teach.
It sounds like you have the right attitude to succeed, though, keep at it, and good luck. I would say be sure you find someone who heavily involves you in the process–again, you need to be the one comfortable out on the trail with your own mount.
FHOTD–wonderful on the old TB mare. Good wishes going to your friend and her new companion and partner.
A great friend just recently lost her red chestnut 32 year old blind mare–who wasn’t, of course, being ridden, but still floated a lovely trot in her pasture, when she felt like showing it off. She was magnificent.
“ridesforpleasure said…
gretchen, minny68, arabians4ever,FHOTD,hardymom,jara,fuelsterfarm, robyn, lynda, matreiya, kay, fancy music, blue willow, chaoticturnon and greatpaints–
where are you or the trainers you were referring to?”
I am located in Pa on the MD border, close to Del. You can see my website at http://www.buckinghorseplace.com
I do know alot of the upper level, expensive trainers. Hell, I train at Hilltop and if you want expensive dressage breaking, there you go. But I love working with everything, especially TBs, which SO many people seem to not know how to deal with anymore. (Or should I say, so many Sport Horse people?)
Yes, I’ve seen the stupid ones that want a horse dead broke and baby-safe after 60 days, and I’ve seen the ones that take a well started horse home and destroy it, but that doesn’t make me want to stop. Just makes me want to shoot the people. *sigh*
THE-FARMER’S-WIFE – I’m in the wild wild west, pacific time zone.
When I was younger, I used to break my own. Did some ground work, saddled them up, and if they didn’t have a cow, rode them out. In the river, across the desert, in the hills, along highways, jake brakes on logging trucks, past pastures full of horse-eating sheep, pheasants that appear out of nowhere, you name it. They got pretty broke within few days. I don’t have the physical condition or the time to do that now, though, so would love to find someone who could do the same. Of course, that’s pretty close to impossible today, and knowing what I used to do with my horses, no trainer does that anymore that I know of. Even a top show trainer isn’t going to get your horse broke broke. No one but yourself is going to put the kind of miles on a horse that gets them truly broke. My horses were so broke you could ride them OUT without a bridle with less than 20 rides on them. You could swing a rope off them, pony other horses, follow some cows, everything you can possibly think of to do with a horse. They w/t/c and then some, lope from a walk, correct leads, good stop and back, loping nice circles, and a halfway decent slow turn on the haunches/spin. That stuff doesn’t take 90 days to do if the horse has a good mind. And I always kept my horses in a plain snaffle, no gimmicks. The only thing I used to use was a running martingale, adjusted properly, that was for a little extra help if you needed it. It was more for me than for the horse. LOL. Wish I was the same person today.
Dear forthefutureofthebreed,
What state, pray tell? Com’on, give me a hint. Does it start with a C, an O, or a W?
at our place is $750 for full training including a months board. 4-5 days a week of working the horse / lessons / whatever. This is the same for breaking which is what we do alot of. We don’t have any horses that are going to be grand prix or even ever make money back for their owners but we (I) specialize in making horses that are safe, reliable companions. If they can do something fun and fancy along the way that’s all bonus but broke, safe, useful and realistic are paramount. I’m obviously happy with myself
I’ll probably never be nationally known, but that’s ok with me. I like being known for being honest and doing good work. I don’t mind giving a horse back to someone saying “I can’t work with this horse” because I hear too much of the person that kept it for 3 more months at $1,000 a month THEN finally gave up on it anyway. I’d rather at least save you the money and myself some reputation.
In my personal work i do a lot of retraining from the track. I feel good about turning “trash” into something useful Alot of times I only break even, and sometimes i make some money. bonus.
rides for pleasure: Unfortunately we are nowhere near you being located in western Canada…your horse sounds like one my trainer would be able to work with. Good luck in your search, hopefully someone here will be able to assist you better then I can!
THE FARMER’S-WIFE – There you are. Sorry about that. I thought everyone was over on the moronic parents page.
The Morgan person I know here is an older fellow. It didn’t look like his horses were higher caliber horses, but I’m not a Morgan expert, either. They were probably very old bloodlines, on unkempt horses, so it was hard to tell. And I don’t think he shows at all. He was a judge, though, so maybe he did a long time ago. He’s sort of goofy now.
On the topic of “trainers”…check out the video collection here. Scroll down to see the “Navi doing tricks” one. WTF?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jumperchick7
The form o/f is quite…interesting also.
FHOTD- I wonder how many times a day that girl falls off over the front of her horse w/ that jumping ahead.
ridesforpleasure said…
gretchen, minny68, arabians4ever,FHOTD,hardymom,jara,fuelsterfarm, robyn, lynda, matreiya, kay, fancy music, blue willow, chaoticturnon and greatpaints–
Sounds like you should have come to the two day sensory and confidence clinic held last month at the center. The people and horses were exposed to scary objects that you might find on the trail, plus worked over the obstacle course and finally on a trail ride that included a water crossing and going on a road beside railroad tracks, where a train went by. All this was done under the guidance of qualified instructors.
By the way I am in NW Illinois.
My trainer is in SW Ohio, near Cincinnati. He charges $495 per month which includes board.
Mike Rees is quite possibly the most brillient horse person I have ever met. He has done 100% of the training on all of my Welsh Ponies and will continue to do so as long as he wants.
Mike will break and train all fuglies, not just the animals heading for the show ring. Typically, he will give you three solid gaits in 90 days, and award winning gaits in 6 months. I have seen him “fast track” a few and get them done faster (in 60 days), but I don’t think they are nearly as solid as the 90 day-ers.
Please understand that the ones he can get done in 60 days are ones that have not been screwed up by someone thinking they know how to train a horse but don’t do a very good job at it. It will take twice as long on any animal that needs to be re-started because the first time they were “broke” they learned to be evasive or even dangerous.
Mike is also a very honest person, which I find to be an attribute that can be hard to find in this world. I sent a pony to him last year. He was going for 90 days to get going under saddle. After 30 days, Mike told me he needs to grow up some more and that I need to turn him out for a year. I did and have seen such a difference in this pony’s maturity level. (He will be going back to Mike this fall to be broke.)
Feel free to check out my website http://www.sommerponyfarm.com to see the amazing job he has done with my stallion. You can also check out Mike’s website at http://www.rrrfarms.net.
I am a trainer and run a rescue. I couldn’t agree more! I have a pasture full of “trained” horses that were sold by people a little on the shady side (ok, a lot)to beginners! How about a lame 4 year old QH that has never been saddled, sold to an 11 year old girl that has never ridden. All for the mighty dollar and another 6 pack of Shmitt Shit beer
Come to Australia!!!
I have a ‘grade’ horse, hes a standardbred, bought for $1 for my partner to bush ride (but now i tend to ride and even compete him more!)… Initially i broke him myself and he was great, did 2 ODEs, handful of dressage training days etc, but then we hit a wall and he started throwing his weight around (teenager lol) and rather then tackle the problem myself i sent him to a trainer who asked no questions and did a great job, had him for 2 weeks and charged me $120 or so… He also breaks horses from scratch, even though he didnt have to do much with my guy, and he never once asked about the quality of the horse or suggested he wasnt worth the effort (note – neither did my dressage coach who is an international competitor…).
But then i guess sending fuglies to Australia to be broke is a bit of an overkill right?
l guess the biggest reason theres a lack of dedicated horse ‘educators(hate the word break) out there these days is the same as the breeding issue, people dont want to pay for the horse not recognising the costs of service fee’s, gelding feeding etc….l train very few horses for outside people due to this reason…if ya wanna pay peanuts go to the zoo… There are no massive amounts of money to be made in educating horses for general riding but atleast be prepared to pay a reasonable fee to educate your horse(specially if you want it done right) and also remember that all horses have different personalities so it may take longer for one than for another horse to be ‘ready’ to back to their future rider…l prefer to charge a set fee and extra for the feed required if the horse requires longer than the quoted time.It’s not fair to rip people off but its worse still to send a horse home that truly isnt ready for it as the horse is the one that will suffer for it
Thanks so much for bringing up the subject. I’ve been training horses for nearly 30 years. I was the “cowboy” the big trainer’s sent their horse to when they couldn’t get em broke. I took everthing that walked through my door.
I’m 40 years old now, and so busted up that sitting here at this computer hurts. And, people don’t want to pay. I have to charge $400 month board to cover costs, I ain’t making money on board and $350 month training. That figures out to around $17.50 per ride at 5 a week. They don’t want to pay that. Does $17.50 sound worth my neck?
It’s not just the rank spoiiled shit that people bring, any horse can come undone at any moment. Their prey animals, I don’t care how long we have them “domesticated” you will never take the fight/flight completely out of them. No matter how much you expose a horse to, there will always be the possibility of something they’ve never seen spooking them. Or they could stumble, or fall at a jump. It’s a dangerous job.
Not to mention the folks that should be taking their horse to the trainers, don’t, ’cause they bought the horse at the sale for $250, what do you mean it’s going to cost $750 a month to break ‘em? And, what do you mean 30 days training isn’t enough?
I used to go around to folks places and ride for them. I’m in the Appalachian mountains, hmmmm, unbroke horse with no idea how to carry a rider let alone steer and stop in a 40 acre pasture on a side hill. Yea, I used to be 10 foot tall and bullet proof. Not any more.
Also, as many of you have noted, the NH folks out there making a big buck killing us who’re still doing what has worked for hundreds of years. Oh, and everyone seems to miss that there is absolutly nothing natural about what we do with horses. In the natural, anything that got on a horses back meant to either breed it, or kill it and eat it.
In the natural, when that mare flattened her profile and laid back her ears, who ever she was “wispering” to better git and now, or wear her teeth marks or hoof prints.
This pamsey, poopsey, sweety way of approaching these animals has earned many a back yard wannabee just comming home from a parelli clinic a helicopter ride to the trauma unit.
Then they come see me still on their crutches to tell me poopsey really didn’t mean it, she’s such a sweet mare/geld/stallion, and I can tell by all the little nip marks all over their arms that it’s a spoiled rotten wench that really needs a spanking, but they don’t want me to use a bit, a lounge line, spurs or a crop, and got forbid I should ever swat it for biting me.
I’m fried. I don’t want to train horses for people any more, common sense has dissapeared from horsedom in my lifetime.
Well, I know I’m a bit late getting into this discussion, and thought my last post was a bit windy, buuuuuttt
in answer to fhotd’s question, the other cause of the declining “good horse trainer” selection is that the older generation is dying off and retiring, and the next generation wants an air conditioned/heated office making 50k a year right out of the shoot. They don’t want to work this hard.
Those that do want to train horses don’t want to do the work. They go to one of the “equine colleges” ride a few horses, get their “certification”, hang up their shingle, and start getting people helicopter rides.
I see it all the time here, in my area. It takes years and a lot of horses to get the experience required to be a good trainer.
No two horses are alike. They may have similarities, but they, like people are all different. There are personality types, but unlimited variants on those types depending on life experiences.
Basics are basics, yes, consistancy and good dicipline are the same, yes, but all horses have their own depth in the learning curve and if the “trainer” doesn’t have the experience to discern where that is and fairly quickly, a horse can get fried in a heart beat.
Most of these kids I run into don’t want to put in the time and sweat equity it takes to get that kind of experience. We now live in a drive through world. Two years at an equine college is all they want to do. Or, maybe 30 days with a NH trainer. I know I’m making a blanket statement here, and I know that there are those out there who are getting well educated, but I can guarantee you they’re working for a big trainer, riding $35,000 and up horses, AQHA, NRHA, AHA, etc. not little back yard fuglies.
I can’t tell you how many people come to me after they’ve broken their ribs, pelvis, arm, back, leg, you name it, and just want out. The back yard trainer’s y’all are describing and the ones I personally have observed are shooting the horse industry in the foot, right along with the fugly breeders.
Wings, you are quite right. The age of instant results and gratification is partly at fault.
There is exactly ONE person in my area (probably the whole state?) who will come to your place to work your horse. He won’t be doing it next year, he is overwhelmed with “green broke” and 6 years old and not started horses. A couple months ago he told me he was riding a tremendous number of horses-47! Some of those only a couple times a week, or once a week, and none of them five days a week. He just recently raised his rates to $40 an hour and is worth every penny. He is quiet, makes the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard, does not even raise his voice and does not push a horse. He’s marvelous and we could use a couple more like him here.
He has no one discipline, but does ride in western tack. He has some of the lightest hands I have ever seen and I am thrilled to be having him give my own horse a tune up. If he could clone himself, he would have triple the number of horses to ride because of how GOOD he is.
We have clinicians that come up and don’t get me started on those, they don’t help the owner that is on their own due to location or limited funds or just plain stupidity. I started a couple, I can do pretty decent getting them ready to ride for a good trainer-but I for dang sure won’t hang out a shingle for it, I don’t have the experience….and experience is what is lacking.
BTW there are just two trainers I can think of locally who will take on a totally green horse. One charges in excess of $1000 a month with board, and the other is the guy riding my own horse.
I do have to say that most of my clients have been very good about understanding what they are getting out of 60 or 90 days training. Most of them are realistic. I did have one breeder I worked for, but she decided that I was too expensive and is now breaking her horses herself and then letting her hired help ride at $9/hour with the horses getting nowhere in their training.
I only charge $35/ride if I travel. No travelling expenses unless it is farther than a certain mileage. I don’t think that is alot for a trainer. In fact, I’ve paid nearly double than that for training rides from local jump trainers and I’ve had to take my horse to them.
My training board is $650/month pastured or $750/month stalled. (granted my board is going up as of the first of the year due to rising grain and hay costs, but still not alot.)
I was just talking to another friend of mine, another young horse trainer, and we both feel (and maybe it is the area we are in) that the market is flooded with young horse trainers. We both hear all the time from people who claim there are no young horse trainers out there, but we look around us and there are SO many.
I do have to say that most of the horses that have come to me have been spoiled rotten brats with no ground manners to speak of. One barely led and she’s 3 yo! I have a draft in for training right now and his owner nearly makes me throw up with the baby talk and coddling. I have a feeling once he gets home, he will walk all over them again.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
“I was watching a cutting horse trainer in my area warming up a horse, trotting in a large circle, and posting on the wrong diagonal.”
Oh heck, that’s nothing. Most folks who ride western can’t post properly anyway. How do I know? I was raised riding western, learned on the fly and then decided to branch out and do the H/J thang and eventually dressage. Learned the hard way about how I was a moron by some a German trainer who just about killed me mentally and physically every lesson.
I can hear Lisel screaming everytime I go to a show, “Nein, nein, nein! Do not tink up/down, you should chust movf like der sex movfs, pelvis tilts! Try to get it right dis time!” Lovely woman (not).
Most “English Pleasure” riding in an AQHA ring is essentially WP with english tack.
And don’t get me started watching a snaffle bit futurity with folks warming up posting the trot. Yikes.
hhmmm.. Kay way that a smack about my qalifications? If not then I appologise. I’m well qualified for what I’m doing. I understand that a lot of ppl slap the name of “Trainer” on themselves w/ little or no training themselves. I, however am not one of those ppl. I still take regular lessons w/ very qualified ppl (olympic meddelest, grand prix show jumper rider and Prix st. George dressage instrutor enough for you?) I know a lot of ppl also take lessons and whatever but still can’t ride/train for shit. I’ve always had the green horse as I could never afford something “made”. That and my dad is one of those “you’ll learn more if you work for it” types. well it worked. my services have been in demand for a nmber of years, and I’ve worked what I could around school. Actally, I have a full time job complete w/ benefits training young horses to foxhunt and event as well as “fix” porblem jumpers. If your comment was not ment the way I took it, I sincererly appologise. I just get a little touchy about my qualifications being questioned by someone who has read 4 lines on a message bored.
Besides, that’s what this whole thread is about, ppl who take on horses just to make them rideable mounts. If I need to compete at preliminary level to make that happen for a backyard horseman/woman. that eliminates a lot of your potential trainers.
I think I need to go kiss my green horse trainer’s feet.
He starts ANYTHING for $350 a month, which includes board. Every horse gets worked every day, and he does everything from despooking, general manners and handling (bathing, clipping, loading, etc) and just putting miles on them under saddle outside the arena (hills, water, etc).
I took him a big, gorgeous, full-of-himself OTTB I’d rehabbed with a request that he remind Mr TB of his manners before he went to his new home. Trainer isn’t a very large fella, and his eyes got a little big at my horse’s size (he mostly trains little 2-3 yo locally-bred fuglies, too many of which are still intact).
That horse came back happy, shiney, and dead broke. Trainer hopped on the trailer to say goodbye, and my man-hating horse buried his face in the guy’s chest. Mr TB has since begun his show career and I was sent a rave review of his zen attitude and unspookability, which I forwarded with thanks to the trainer.
I’ll be taking a filly up there next week and have convinced a few other folks to send their horses there to get basics.
I know plenty of people who call themselves “trainers” that I don’t want touching my horses. IMOHO, a good trainer is like a good farrier–hard to find and worth his weight in gold.
Let’s all THANK the horses for being the giving, and forgiving, amazing animals they are. It’s a wonder we have SO FEW accidents, considering the FUGLY lack of common sense amongst Fugly Owners and Fugly Riders.
I’m a trainer who hesitates to call herself “Trainer”. I would prefer coach, instructor etc, since “trainer” often implies someone who rides 8 or more horses a day, with grooms and working students prepping horses. Factory-style training isn’t the best for horses owned by clueless amateurs. Owners need instructions, and many are not open to it.
Like many said: Fugly horse breeders, and Fugly-Owners do not strive to learn horsemanship *for themselves*. Fugly-Owners would be those who think they can ride without ever working at understanding the basics. They lack both basic seat, and they lack basic knowledge of horse management, handling, keeping.
They refuse to learn (even if they do attend high-priced clinics or hire glamorous trainers)
Fugly Owners insist they know it all — then you see them using curb bits, inapropriately rough, riding their 18-month old reining prospect palomino stallion.
They do not think they need good teachers who emphasise basics for horse and rider.
Fugly Owners believe in the fantasy of Disney, Westerns. They can tame mustangs, and they don’t need instruction. They know how to ride, because they sat on a wooden caroussel pony, once.
Fugly Owners know zilch about horses, but by golly they are gonna be the BOSS. At the other extreme, another set of Fugly Owners who insist on never setting limits, they are servants to their horses then they wonder why poopsie bites, kicks, refuses to lead, refuses to respect them.
Fancy_Music said…
hhmmm.. Kay way that a smack about my qalifications? If not then I appologise. I’m well qualified for what I’m doing.
What did I say? I certainly didn’t mean anything whatever it was. I’llhave to go back and check.
Okay, I guess what you meant was the comment about the sensory clinic, the comment was for rides for pleasure who was looking for a trainer because she needed help. I didn’t highlight the entire quote and since my name was listed next to yours I can see where you were getting the wrong idea.
I simply said that she should have had the opportunity to attend the clinic which was set up to give a rider more confidence in many different situations.
i am lucky, i have a breaker who is a bull rider and his wife does dressage, so between them they do a brilliant job, also they TRADE…will break in one for me for the price of one or two recsue horses or a decent yearling which they then break in and sell and they are willing to do green broke or educated.we just bush bash, yet the gelding they did for us has a mouth like butter after only 3 weeks of being green broken for me, and he came back with no buck or attitude and was traffic safe too.they also teach one rein stops.
at the moment they have a newly gelded rising 2 yr old, he is a pig to the dizzy limits. he was hand raised as his mum died when he was 5 days old, and did they wreck him…wow..they treated him like a baby human and he is a nasty bit of work now.we cut his balls off because he is so spoilt he has black disregard shining in his eyes 24/7, even tho he is registered and could have made a decent stallion had he not been wrecked by over dose of human mummy love.to lead him i had to have a metre long stick to keep him out of my personal space while my daughter walked behind him with a whip. thats how bad he was.my breaker rang to say the bastard had kicked his dog and broken his ribs….what a pig !!! and that it has taken a week to get the slightest hint of respect and softness in his eye.he will only be very lightly backed, as he is too young to be broken but we decided he needed a wake up call for us to be safe.he will go back at three for educating under saddle. my breaker charged me feed of 3 grass hay small bales and one lucerne small bale and one registered unhandled arabian filly rising 3…… so not only do i get a well mannered gelding back after 3 weeks but i got rid of an extra mouth to feed and he will make a nice profit on the filly when he has broken her in and sells her…everyone wins.except the little fucker of a gelding..lol
I have a great trainer who I wouldn’t trade for the word. She works the horse 5-6 days a week, handling and keeping them mentally busy but not overloaded. If she doesn’t work them for that many days due to weather or the horse’s needs, she only charges the board rate and not the training fee. As it is, she only charges me $125 a week, which includes board! She is gentle but believes in both praise and discipline when they get out of line or disrespectful. I hope she stays in the biz for many years!
wngsofeagls12–
it sounds like I need your services. Oh for the trainer that would put miles and miles on my horse out in the real world, no “poopsy stuff” included.
Appalachia is ok.
How about $550/month for 45 minutes per day/6 days per week, pasture board + I supply the grain??
I’ll watch for your answer.
I haven’t read all of the replies yet, but I have to say that I am one of the trainers you’re talking about. I take on all kinds; unbroke 3 year olds, (not to mention unbroke 10 year olds!), all breeds & genders, fuglies included – and at a reasonable price ($22/hr). I can usually get a horse from “unhandled” to do the basic walk/trot/canter/woah/back in about 60-90 days, depending on the horse and more importantly, on the owner (it doesn’t help the training process if the the horse is pushy and “Mom” handfeeds the horse 3lbs of carrots a day ^_^) I’ve also done my share of abuse/neglect cases, as well as those whose training what completely mucked up by someone who didn’t so much as belong on one end of a lead rope.
So yeah, I basically turn out my share of “user friendly” horses that safe for your average middle-aged woman or kid without charging an arm and a leg.
Moreover, I don’t really aspire to train horses for competitive purposes (well, not other people’s horses. Mine are headed for the show ring). I’m personally very competitive and seek perfection in my own horses, but where I am, there are frankly a whole lot more trainers with a whole hell of a lot more resources – cash, facilities, high-quality horses – who can provide those services better than I can. And frankly, I’m happy to help the average weekend rider enjoy his/her horse precisely because there are so few trainers willing to do that and I think that way too many horses (like so many of the ones that end up on this blog) suffer as the result.
Ridesforpleasure, first you need to give me more information about the horse, I don’t take anything 1″ taller than me, anymore, I’m 15.1 hands tall. I don’t have the back to get wrestled around with anything who’s head and neck weigh more than me.
Second, I don’t have pasture board available, but if it’s pony size, could do it for the price your suggesting.
Third, I never set a time limit on rides, once I start, gotta stay till something constructive has been accomplished, can’t quit ’cause time is up.
Fourth, most horses need two days to recover physically, mentally, emotionally, they’re horses, they do need time to be a horse. Unless, Friday didn’t end well, or I want to check to see if a lesson did get through.
Still interested?
I trained for a living for 5 years. Found it wasn’t worth it. I risked my life, litterally for other people’s pieces of crap. I was so tired by the end of the day that on my own personal time I didn’t want to even look at a horse, much less play with my VERY nice horses that were rotting in pasture. I learned it is better to have a 9-5 steady desk job and play with my own at night.
Now, I do take in a horse here and there for someone I know. Usually to either get that first 60-90 days on because they don’t like to do that, or to get trail/hauling miles on something because someone is afraid or can’t do that. I charge $550/mo, including board and 1 lesson a week for the owner. If I haul the horse, owner pays for that trip out, it costs me gas $, wear and tear on my truck & trailer, entry fees or state park fees, and a lot more time than the 1 hour I would be spending with them at home.
What do they get back? A horse that will walk down most trails, hop in a trailer, stand tied quietly at the trailer at a show. For the younguns, they get something that will lunge, w/t/c/b, know it’s leads, bend off the leg, and started down the trails at home. All of this of course depending on the horse.
I however am very choosy about which horses I will get on. They better have ground manners, that is lead, stand tied, not run you over or lean on you, pick up feet for the farrier etc. If I sense a bucker, I won’t even go there. If they are someone’s pushy pet, nope. I prefer one that has the basics, but otherwise has just been a horse. I also won’t take in horses if I don’t feel the owner and I will get on well. Or if I feel the owner expects more from me and the horse than is reasonable.
I can afford to be choosy, I don’t live off of what I make with these horses, it’s just extra cash.
I’m in the central Florida coast area. There are hardly any general colt starters around here. The ones I’ve found I haven’t been impressed with, but they will get on anything for $500-700/mo.
We considered sending my husband’s 6 y/o green draft cross to a trainer to get some polish and miles on him and fix his loading problem. One woman trainer I found in the yellow pages turned out to be a nutball once we started checking her out. One guy who was highly recommended had become fed up with fixing other people’s crap and isn’t doing it anymore. The last woman we visited at her very nice facility wanted $550 per month for boarding/training fees. I asked her about her methods and wasn’t really impressed with her answers and then I asked her how often she would work with the horse and she said oh maybe 20-30 minutes per day. We said thanks, left and gave up. My husband has managed to do it himself and has done a great job. It’s taken 4 months of ground work, respect exercises and very patient work with loading, but he’s done wonders with him and I’m very proud of both of them.
Dont you guys have riding lessons? I am in the UK and most riding people i know, both with and wihtout horses, have lessons semi regularly how to ride.
also what is dead broke? it sounds horrible! but then i have a tb ex racer who is so not dead broke…
What gets me is that so many people say, “Oh, it’s ONLY a trail horse.” ‘scuse me, but a trail horse has to have the training & confidence & conditioning to handle being outside of a ring, away from the barn, with or without other horses, on uneven &/or rough footing, on roads, dealing with cars/bikes/dogs/baby carriages/killer leaves (rocks, shadows…) and so on.
Your oh-so-special highly trained ring-riding-only horse goes around and around in an enclosed area near the barn on flat, groomed footing for about an hour.
“ONLY” a trail horse?! grrrr. It’s this attitude that makes for so many terribly unsafe horses being sold to unsuspecting novice weekend riders. By a breeder of a fugly horse, who keeps making more of them (being kept in rusty metal cluttered barbed wire areas), who tells the poor innocent buyer (why would I need lessons or a trainer “just” to go trail riding?) what a wonderful trail horse it is.
My fourteen year old daughter rides on the National level, she is a very solid competant rider with an exceptional seat and hands. She has excellent riding instruction and I drive in excess of two hours each way to her trainer. I pay $925 per month for the horse training/instruction of my daughter.
She also long lines horses and drives. She has shown at the World Championships in equitation receiving second place on a very honest unfinished four year old horse.
Has anyone thought that younger qualified riders that have had good training/instruction might be a place for an honest fugly horse to further their training?
My daughter has taken in and finished some horses at our house (for no fee), keep in mind, I knew the horses and they were honest-just needing finishing. She does it for the extra ride time that has improved her seat. Anyways, just a thought.
Said I was sorry for taking it personally. The part that got me was mentioning the clinic (very nice actually. thank you) then throwing in “there will be qualified trainers there” to supervise or help or whatever. I took is as her saying that I wasn’t qualified. I know I’m not the best trainer out there, there’s always room for improvement. but I felt it implied that I WASN’t qualified. Sorry for being offended. like I said, I’ve worked hard to be where I am and tho I know I can alwasys improve, I know I’m good at what I do and so do the ppl I help.
On a completly another topic. Someone (from UK) was asking about lessons. I know a few ppl from england,a dn they all ahve a hard time understanding the lack of horsyness in our society. Lots of ppl here have never seen a horse live and close up, and that’s even in my city of 100,000 ppl. not NY or anything urban like that.
It sounds like we need some sort of mandatory accreditation program for horse trainers which would provide:
a: an educational program in training horses in which participants are also require to pass a battery of tests
b: an accredited license to practice (there could be different grades of licenses as well)
If federal or state law could restrict horse training to those who have a license, it would help filter out the people who shouldn’t be in the field.
I would be interested if any of the colleges that offer Equine Studies has something like that which could be used as a model.
Hi All….new to the blog, but enjoying every word! While I do own some fine specimens, I also own one fugly QH/Standardbred cross that is now a ripe old age of 30! He may be a “lunkhead”, but he’s my “lunkhead”!
I really have to know where it is that no one seems to be able to find trainers. My sister has been training professionally for about 20 years, and I turned professional in 2002 when she and I originally moved to Florida (I’m now back in Kansas). While we’ve specialized in Paso Finos (have been in the breed since 1976), we’ve never turned any horse owner away for training simply because they weren’t Pasos or show horses. She’s competed in 3 day eventing, so she has more dressage experience than I do, but we both train for trail, western pleasure, etc.
I’ve known of “trainers” supposedly riding horses, only to take on that horse and discover it doesn’t know diddly squat, so the owner was obviously ripped off. We’ve always guaranteed that the horse will be ridden a minimum of three days, or a discount will be given towards the next month’s bill. We typically work the horses 5 days a week, rain or shine. If it’s raining, and we can’t work outside, then they will get some other important lesson, such as standing quietly while tied, getting their feet trimmed, etc. While we don’t subscribe to any of the showboat’s methods (Parelli who?), we do tend to use a more natural approach to starting the horse. I usually describe it as “communication, not domination.” In the Paso breed, it is quite common to see certain trainers attempting to force the horse to do what they want, rather than communicating. (don’t even get me started!)
We also encourage the owner to take advantage of lessons that are included in the training fee. When we send horses home, we want the owner to KNOW how to ride the horse.
Anyway, my sister is now located in Lebanon, MO, and offers training and board for less than $1000 month (I’m dumbfounded by that $$$). I’m in the Kansas City area, and would be willing to discuss anyone’s needs.
You can contact me at: graywolf_jlb@yahoo.com if you want anymore information or phone numbers.
I’m sure I will pipe in on some of the other subjects! See ya around the blog!
I know a great colt starter. He charges £30 ($60) an hour and has any ‘normal’ natured horse without major issues ridable within 14 to 20 hours by an owner that isn’t a complete idiot.
He doesn’t care what type of horse it is.
We just sent him a 4yr old Lusitano and he is riding her in all paces with a saddle after 8 hours of training (having ridden her without a saddle on day 1).He is riding her in a big open field, no round pens, no menage. He estimates it will take another 6 hours to get her ready for her leasure rider owner to be safe to ride.
He does have a university standard training in colt starting from Mr Parelli.
>>Has anyone thought that younger qualified riders that have had good training/instruction might be a place for an honest fugly horse to further their training? < <
Oh, they always HAVE been. The problem is that finding teens who want to do that anymore is getting tougher. More teens have parents who will purchase a top show horse for them, plus they have more interests outside the barn than I think most of us did when we were kids. They don’t want to spend the whole day hanging out riding anymore. They don’t have to ride the crap we all rode just to get to ride extra horses for free. I know a lot of people who would love to find a tough little 15 year old who can ride anything and laughs when they buck, but they seem to have gone the way of the dodo bird.
I engaged one of those “teen Trainers” who is going to some equine college in the midwest, forget which one. She was an accomplished barrel racer, at least by local standards, and she could ride her way out of a paper bag…
Having taken on a full time job, I couldn’t work my mare as often as necessary to keep the “edge” off her. So I hired this girl, idk, maybe 20 y.o. to ride her twice a week. That’s all she had to do, was ride her!
She showed up twice and I never saw her again. Left town, never to be seen or heard from again.
No more teen-rodeo-queens for me!
My trainer is one of those “carrot stick twirling tricksters”. She does starting to advanced riding. (In her prior life she trained show horses, then Parelli changed her perspective). She travels to my farm, and charges $35 for 1 hour and 20 minutes. It’s 50% horse training, and 50% human lessons.
It’s very interesting and challenging for both the horses and us humans. She runs the lessons like a pro, splitting the time between 3 people and we rotate paying her every third time – very inexpensive.
My trainer doesn’t let us ride until the horse respects us on the ground. We are riding 2 and still on the ground with the other 2. The other trainer I know takes on the unbreakables and is a little hard handed and unwilling to admit when she has biten off more than she can chew.
I realize I will probably outgrown my current trainer but I have no big plans for showing or breeding, just improving myself.
Laura said…
Dont you guys have riding lessons? I am in the UK and most riding people i know, both with and wihtout horses, have lessons semi regularly how to ride.
—————-
That’s a whole ‘nuther topic, just like this one but for people who give lessons.
In the U.S., ANYONE can call him- or herself a trainer, coach, giver of riding lessons, etc., etc. with absolutely no qualifications. It can be just as hard to find somewhere to take lessons as it is to find a competent person to start or finish a horse.
Thank god for the BHS (British Horse Society). They may be a bit kick to go, pull to stop for me, but at least their instructors know the basics and have had to pass courses and training for competence.
I love BHS BTW. I’ve had experience w/ ppl from BHS, USPC (Which I was a member) and “horse college”. It’s been my experience that BHS is the most consistent. USPC really depends on the club your in B4 you get up to regional and national ratings level (tho at leas there is a book everyone has to read that doen’t teach ass backwards stuff. it’s just how well it’s enforced/demended), and horse college is a waste of time. That’s been my experience.
wngsofeagls12, samantha,jeanm–
Horse 15.3 but trained to sidepass over to you when you stand on mounting block; just turned 7. Stands tied, loads and trailers well, impeccable ground manners, no bite, no buck, no kick, stands still to mount, does onerein stop, no control issues inside areana/ring; sensitive mouth; goes in snaffle; moves away from leg pressure. Very flexible laterally and athletic; last trainer said was very trainable and “almost too smart”. Good conformation; excellent feet and legs; ok with farrier (even hotshoeing) but presently barefoot. Pix and video available on request. Needs hours and hours of being ridden over hill and dale by experienced rider; would probably benefit if initial rides accompanied by experienced ranch horse or field hunter.
Agree specific times unreasonable; only included so expectations of time required could be correlated with cost.
Stall fine. I would have to be there some of the time.
Please get back to me.
It always amazes me how few people take lessons. I would not *think* of buying a horse until I am very comfortable riding and handling one.
However, good quality lessons can be really difficult to find. I am in a part of the US that has plenty of lesson barns but it still took several tries for me to the find the right one, and the right one is definitely costly — but worth it. I am also lucky enough to have use of a friend’s spare horse, so I am riding more than once a week. Nonetheless, I will want another year of lessons before I even consider getting my own horse, and I am a returning rider who had most of the basics in my memory already.
Ridesforpleasure – I’m currently booked, but where are you located?
I was very lucky at a young age to get to work with a trainer who essentially was a “starter”…his business consisted solely of getting the first 30,60, 90 days on a horse and helping the owner understand the process and how to follow up.
Most of his clients had the standard fugly and were interested in trail riding recreationally. They didn’t want or need a lot of buttons, but they wanted a safe horse that knew the basics.
Bless his heart too…because at the time, my mom had 3 2 year olds and could only afford to put one in training…so I would go watch the trainer, then head home and work with the other 2. I was 13. Brilliant.
But those are the kind of corners that a lot of people want to cut when they are dealing with low $$ horses.
At this point, I’d love to start a few horses a year–but I don’t want to give up my ammy status for that. Just not worth it.
And the big boy trainers don’t want to waste their time with the non-competitive, are too expensive, or have such harsh methods in order to produce in 30 days that most looking for the basics just settle for buying a DVD and praying they live through it.
In theory, the principles you can learn through books, videos, etc are good–it’s the application that is prone to disaster. If you don’t have a good foundation already, it’s awfully difficult to put the concepts into practice correctly.
Ridesforpleasure, however, I can’t do a horse that size for $550. It has to go in a big stall, and even if you were to throw in the grain, we’ve been in a drought this year, so hay that is usually $3.50 a bale is now $7. We like to feed enough hay to keep the digestive system healthy, we don’t usually feed a large amount of grain. So, if your still intersted, let me know.
Samantha,
I’m between Cincinnatti and Nashville.
Wngsofeagls12,
mixed grass/alfalfa here (shipped in from Wisconsin) is under $6 for 60 lb. bale.
Ridesforpleasure – Sorry, can’t help you. I’m in California and that’s a little far to go just to put rides on a horse. =)
i think i might have discovered the worlds greatest trainer… scratch that, worlds greatest genetic experiment – what happens when your mother and father are brother and sister and at least one of them is cattle…
http://horsemanpro.com
seriously, put on a girdle before you start reading. you WILL lose ribs in the crossfire of hilarity!!
hateful, self obsessed, narcissistic, misogynistic, uninformed, brain dead, godbothering half wit doesnt even begin to cover it. calling him a tard is an insult to the classy, sophisticated tard population of the world!
Ridesforpleasure, I probably can’t help you either, I’m in NE PA, probably gonna cost you at least $700 to ship one way. I had a 10.1 hand pony ship to Wyoming, $1500. Hellfire and damnation, I coulda put her in the back seat and done it for $400 and gone on vacation. I know, I know, insurance, handling fee, log book, D.O.T., L.L.C., C.D.L., payroll taxes, farting taxes, etc, etc, etc. The American dream is a nightmare.
I start our own babies. I do own one mare of my own but I’ve got her up for sale now that I’ve got some points on her. I work full time besides having 2 2 year olds plus a yearling longeliner, plus a 7 year old mare to keep up plus my own 6 year old mare, plus a weanling who needs to start learning how to set up for halter futurities coming up this fall.
I used to start other people’s horses and I’m thankful for the mileage, it’s made me a lot better rider, but I’m not sorry that I’m not riding other people’s stuff anymore. I prefer handling my kids from the very beginning. They’re in our program and it’s just easier to start the little buggers that way.
While a national certification might be a good idea, my only concern would be for people who get that little piece of paper and then think they’re the bees knees, even if they still have no feel and couldn’t problem solve through a difficult horse. I’m not the best trainer in the world, and I’ll be the first to admit when I’ve got a problem child and am more than happy to ship them off to a cowboy to get sorted out. I’m a pansy these days.
Oh, and a horse being “dead broke” just means that they’re very well trained and have a lot of mileage in different situations. Something you’d be comfortable putting your mom on, for example.
I just wanted to comment here and let you know that you’ve described the kind of trainer I want to be. I’m eighteen years old and I currently attend the University of Findlay for a degree in Equestrian Studies with a concentration in Western riding and training. I am working my ass off, every single day, to become a better rider and a more knowledgeable horseman. I’m not interested in being famous. I’m not interested in the show world. What I am interested in is helping ordinary horses be better citizens and helping the ordinary people who look after them to learn how to work with them intelligently and correctly, be it under saddle or on the ground.
I hope you’ve found a good horse for your friend by this time, as this is a fairly old post I’m commenting on.
Best of luck to you and yours, in everything you do.
I’m still young and have yet to own my own horse, but I think that just with the basic knowledge of animal training and as skimpy a background in horses that I have, that I could successfully get a horse to walk, trot, and canter on command and without tripping over itself. With a little practice and after training a set of my own horses, I might start branching out and offer my services to friends and family. Then I’ll have enough experience to offer these walk-trot trainings to others. But I wouldn’t charge thousands of dollars – I would just want to be compensated for my time and insurance payments, that’s all.
From what I’ve seen in the horse community on the internet: methods are wide and varied. Just choosing what kind of tack is a migraine in the making if you don’t know what you’re doing. And then there’s the training aides and whatever other things there are out there to help you, and then the thousands of disciplines… The horse community is wide and it’s hard to keep an open mind. I rode first in a western saddle, and then I learned how to ride in an English, and then went back to western. I think I could confidently pursue either or both routes, but if a girl who grows up to be a trainer only ever rode on a English saddle, she’ll become set in her ways, you know what I mean?
For my first horse, I’ll want somebody’s advice to make sure I don’t ruin it. I’m inexperienced and I know this. I don’t think I’m going to be a world famous trainer, but I do want to break and train a mustang on my own one day. I just hope there will be a competent and affordable trainer out there to set me on the right path.
I found a gal named Carrie in the Tri-Cities, WA, who has started 3 of my horses under saddle this year. Now ALL FIVE are broke to ride! She charges $450/mo, including board. The first one I sent was my 5 yr old Shagya mare, she had some sporadic groundwork, and I had ridden her in the round pen or pasture–mostly walk, a little trot–maybe 10 times. I sent her for 45 days and she came back just about broke to death. Very responsive to the leg and rein aids. All three gaits, goes in the water, up and down steep hills, basically she will go wherever I point her.
The second was my 4 yr old Anglo-Arab/Shagya gelding. He had a saddle on a couple times and had been lunged a few times. She had him 60 days, divided into two sessions, with about 5 days at home in between. After the first session, I was pretty sure I would be selling him, because I’m 58 and I’ve already broken too many bones. He would skitter out from underneath her when she dismounted, didn’t like the feeling of something over his back. He was just kinda spooky and silly. The second session we put a fly sheet on him fulltime, and she did lots of body work with him. Now he is just great. He goes in the water, walks trots and canters, goes up and down hills. He is not quite as responsive to the rein aids, but moves well off the leg. Once Carrie and I were riding together, and he decided to buck going into a canter. She got on him after we finished and “tuned him up” for about 15 or 20 minutes. Just basically making him work really hard, nothing harsh, no whips. He hasn’t offered to buck or even fuss too much since. He is a bit spookier than the mare, but he comes from a line of spooky, hard-headed horses (I owned his mom and grandma too).
The third is a 6 yr old Shagya mare, who had a neck injury as a baby, and has her head on crooked, her ears, and one eye too. She was given to me at nine months because her breeder didn’t have pasture, and she was not holding her weight, and the breeder had too many horses to have time to mess with her. We think she probably ran into a tree or building, maybe broke something or tore ligaments that hold everything in line in the upper neck. I treated her like a hothouse flower until the day I tied her up to the trailer, and she got mad and pulled back for all she was worth, almost fell down, just generally did the whole “I’m going to pull my head clean off my neck” thing. Then I decided she wasn’t that delicate. I had thrown a saddle on her a couple of times, mostly to see if I could find one to fit her. Then since she had the saddle on, I got on and rode her in the round pen for 10-15 minutes. She knew how to lunge, but had never been sacked out, or had more than about 30 minutes of groundwork total. I decided, in light of Fugly’s concerns about unbroke horses not having a very good chance of getting a new home in a crisis, to go ahead and send her to Carrie. I told Carrie if she ever had any doubts about her being safe to ride, just send her home. No problem, she did a lot more groundwork with her than the first mare (incidentally, her full sister) and commented that sitting on that back, looking out over those ears was a bit weird. Carrie and I would take the babies down to the river for water training. The first time this mare went out, she just acted like an old broke horse. No spook, no fuss. She did everything she was asked, and acted like she was really enjoying herself. Now all I have to do is figure out which one to start doing Limited Distance rides on next year!
All three will go down the road, out on trails, in the water, or anywhere else I ask without a big fuss. They are all responsive and act like they enjoy the work. Carrie is very careful not to push them too hard or fast, so they continue to enjoy being ridden. She is one of the best I’ve seen at reading a horse, knowing when to ask for more and when it’s time to call it a day. She used to show as a kid, but doesn’t anymore. Now her profession is race horse trainer, and she’s good at that too. She breaks all the babies to saddle for the track, and they are all well-behaved in the paddock. She has been riding since she was about 2, and her dad, the original racehorse trainer in the family taught her most of what she knows.
Carrie doesn’t use “natural horsemanship” methods, she uses pressure and release, but also other methods of getting what she wants from a horse. She’s an excellent rider herself, having about 28 years on horseback. She is always re-evaluating what works and what doesn’t for a particular horse, and has lots of different ways of getting the message to the horse about what she’s asking.
I previously used a “natural horsemanship” trainer for my mule, but found that I couldn’t use the same methods myself, so I had problems with the mule. TRIED to get Carrie to take her, but she doesn’t appreciate mules. Darn.
I was just lucky to find Carrie. I occasionally work with her brother, and he recommended her when I asked who starts their racehorses. She doesn’t advertise, can be hard to get ahold of. But for me, one of the most important things was that she rides in a similar style to me, and was willing to use my saddle on my horses. There was no period of retraining because the cues were different, or the horse was waiting for me to make it “join up”, I just got on and rode these green-broke horses, and for the most part, they acted broke to death!
I have trained my own horse before, and was pretty pleased with the outcome, but it took a long time, because I couldn’t ride every day, and I didn’t always have the solution for problems that came up. Knowing a LOT about starting colts, being able to ride everyday, and having a variety of solutions for each sticking point speed the process up a lot. Also having the experience NOT to teach the horse bad habits or let it get away with things is very important. Knowing how to get the message across to the horse without getting mad or resorting to rough treatment is SO important to producing a happy well-broke horse. Carrie has these qualities, and more.
I read comments from people like Kate, and I have to laugh at her optimism. She can’t even ride herself, but is confident that she can make a horse walk, trot and canter on command. Sorry darlin’ there’s a LOT more to training a horse than that. Anybody who has the desire can probably do that, but actually TRAINING a horse means that you are communicating with it, and showing it what to do when given a specific cue, that you are reassuring the horse when it’s scared of something. You have to know how to ride well enough so that you aren’t confusing the horse with your extraneous body movements that don’t mean anything except that you aren’t able to control your body on top of the horse well enough to eliminate them. The GOOD trainers are worth their weight in platinum. I’ve been blessed in finding Carrie. Anybody in my area who needs a horse trained, I’d be happy to share her contact info.