A good horse is never a bad color, but a bad horse can be a good color – Part III, Cremellos
Aug 10 2007
Ah, cremello. The color that makes every color breeder’s heart go pitter-pat. Since we’ve seen a fair bit of misinformation out there on the topic, here is a chart that will show you the possibilities when you breed color x color. As you can see, the cremello, unlike the palomino or the buckskin, will not give you a plain red colt…no matter what you breed it to. For this reason, cremellos are very appealing to people who breed for color, especially the low-end color breeders who have learned that a $300 colt becomes a $1200 colt when it’s a trendy color!
Color is clearly the only explanation for this stallion still having possession of his testicles. While I am not an expert in Tennessee Walkers and do not pretend to be, I have boarded at a TWH barn and have some understanding of what a show quality Walker looks like. Even cleaned up, this ain’t it. The complete and total lack of any muscling at all is stunning. He’s got no butt and a short little peaked croup – I know that isn’t the breed standard! His neck is thick and his head and neck appear oversized for his body, though I think this is due in part to the fact that he actually is underweight. He’s back at the knees, too. The only thing that could be nice about him is his tail…if someone would wash it!
Not a cremello but I had to point this out as one of the mares bred to him. This mare doesn’t need to be bred. SHE NEEDS TO BE FED. Good God, if they look like this on pasture, SOMETHING IS WRONG. Call the vet, you cheap miserable jackass. I can only imagine what this poor mare is going to look like in February. She will put everything she has into trying to grow that baby, and look like the walking dead. Ugh. But as the website says, and I quote “Palomino foal are guaranteed.” I think I’m just going to send out some Hooked on Phonics gift bags or Passing the GED for Dummies to some of these people…
Back to topic…yes, another wonder of the gaited horse world. You don’t have to be a horse expert to know this isn’t a fine looking animal – a non-horsey friend of mine saw this and her reaction was “Ew, what’s wrong with that horse?” Touche.
Here’s another cremello stallion that I like. This one is a Welsh Cob, and he is a great example of one. From his pretty head and cute, foxlike ears to his exemplary shoulder, overall compact and balanced appearance to his powerful hip, this is what a Welsh Cob should look like – it’s just that he has color, also.
It bears noting that EVERY breeding program, no matter HOW good, will have culls. As has often been pointed out here, you can start with 2 phenomenal horses and get something that will be lucky to win the 4-H english pleasure. It is up to you to evaluate your horses and honestly determine which are not breeding quality and which need to be targeted toward riding careers and, if male, have “brain surgery” at the earliest opportunity. Anyone who says they are producing 100% breeding quality horses or keeps all of their colts intact as “stallion prospects,” is deluding themselves. It simply does not work that way.
I think tomorrow we will just have to make another foray into the land of bad parenting. I have such a collection of pictures piling up that it’s not funny. I’m not a helmet nazi or anything but, c’mon, why is your BABY on a STALLION that is LOOSE? And then you put that on the Internet. If Britney Spears can get in trouble with CPS for putting her baby on her lap in a car that she is in (we hope) total control of, what do you think the authorities will think of some of the dangerous, foolhardly crap some of you put on the web in an attempt to prove your stallion’s wonderful disposition?
165 comments to “A good horse is never a bad color, but a bad horse can be a good color – Part III, Cremellos”
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colorisnteverything:
Yep, that’s the one! She’s incredibly talented and smart. Might be an odd cross, but this one definitely took. Still, probably not broodmare material.
My instructor has a couple of really nice horses up for sale. No fuglies here!
forthefutureofthebreed – I fully admit to not having an eye for QH conformation. To me, my student’s tobiano would have made an AWESOME pony hunter if we could have shaved an inch off his feet and put him in a jumping saddle.. but my student refused to let me ruin him!
Anyway that should give you an idea how he looked – small, slight build, athletic, pretty.
I’m itching for the bad parent post now. I don’t suppose you’ll have it done early, will you FHOD?? hmmmmm?
Halter as a benchmark of quality,conformation, class and eye appeal??? Over performance benchmarks??? Christ on a stick that is wrong in sooo many ways…Oy vey!!!
In reference to:
“This is my complaint about Tobiano cowhorses. They won’t halter, and lack the class needed to be an exceptional all around type horse. They are limited to performance events, mainly cowhorse events like roping, cutting, working cowhorse. To me, there’s no reason to sacrifice good quality, conformation, and eye appeal for a particular performance event.”
Regarding Tobiano cowhorses – this is not stallion material. I don’t care how good his bloodlines are.
http://dreamhorse.com/show_horse.
php?form_horse_id=921091
This is what I have a problem with. I don’t care if they can cut a cow. They don’t have the class to do anything else. And I would be afraid of HERDA on these bloodlines even if he looked good. He’s not super fugly, but he’s very common. Take away the Tobiano pattern and what do you have standing there? Nothing spectacular. As breeders, we need to breed for exceptional, and settle for nothing less. Cowhorse breeders breed by pedigree without regard to the individual class of the horses themselves.
Personally, I breed for individual quality, and if the horse is an exceptional individual, they will have a good pedigree behind them. Breeding for quality is what a responsible breeder should be doing, abiding by some sort of breed standard, and striving to improve upon that standard for the future of the breed.
Lifelike001
‘creepily amphibious insect horse’.
That’s a good one!!
PANDORA – If you’ve been paying attention to QHs, Paints and other stock breeds, HALTER is supposed to represent the BEST of a performance horse. I never said it does today, but it is SUPPOSED to. Just because halter breeders have taken it too far doesn’t mean performance breeders have to toss out all the eye appeal.
“Halter as a benchmark of quality,conformation, class and eye appeal??? Over performance benchmarks??? Christ on a stick that is wrong in sooo many ways…Oy vey!!!”
I agree. I like a pretty horse as much as anyone, but my top criteria in my own barn is ability to perform. We’re talking about some vastly different disciplines here but I think it applies across the board. If someone wants to breed pretty performance horses that’s all fine and good, but I don’t think that a plain yet exceptional performer should be criticized as a breeding animal.
This is an experminet. Do not adjust your set. I’ve been reading “fugly” for a week and have bitten my lips bloody but have now signed up for a Google account so I can join in the frolic. Just testing to see if this message comes through.
I’m a “bay” kinda gal myself as they remind me of a coloring book picture neatly outlined in black.
lifelike001 said…
god that akhal teke is bloody hideous, in ALL his photos. doesnt help that they keep him all shaved up looking like a damn axolotl!!
horrid neglected feet, toes out in front, herring gutted, upside down neck, looong back…. ugh. he can kinda move (with excesses of tension) and hes ‘exotic’ for sure – thats my new codeword for ‘creepily amphibious insect horse’.
This post has made me laugh, the Akhal Teke Stallion is more or less exactly the confirmation it should be, herring gutted, yes they are, upside down neck, yes they tend to have more muscle on the underside to, and yes breed description states a long back as well. These may be conformation faults in most horses, but not in this breed, as an endurance, show jumping horse these are the traits of the breed.
Personally, I think this is a nice looking horse, and its lovely irredescent color is a bonus. The horse has great movement, scopey jump and looks to have nice paces.
I think some people are getting confused as to what is Fugly and whats not.
testing AGAIN!!!!!
Okey dokey, Google and I have apparently come to an accord. Whew!
RIDESOBRIGHT – Yes, performance is important. I’m talking from a breeder’s perspective, not from someone looking for a performance horse to use. As a breeder, my goal is to create exceptional performance horses, with the quality, conformation, class and eye appeal to do well at halter. That may not be by today’s halter standards, although that is changing as well. AQHA created a performance halter class, and APHA will probably be right behind them. I am not placing a lot of emphasis on a horse being able to do well in a performance halter class just yet. But it’s a step in the right direction for these associations to implement such a class, and hopefully, breeders will follow suit with breeding some quality into their performance horses. Halter has become totally ridiculous, and the performance horses are just as bad, in each of their respective specialties. Something needs to change.
That’s the thing…
one mans shit is another man’s shinolah.
The only thing I can really say is what my OWN opinions are regarding conformation in a horse. I try not to get too far into what is absolutely right or wrong within a certain breed or type of horse…
BUT!
I DO draw the line in the sand over the following:
1.) mass producing horses that will have little to no chance of finding a happy life.
2.) producing animals out of unproven sires and dams.
3.) producing animals without long term soundness.
The rest is pretty much up to the person’s interpretation of the breed standard. If you produce western pleasure horses that do well, good for you. If you produce cutting horses, roping horses, jumping horses… all of them, if they are sound for the long haul under moderate to heavy use and do decently at whatever discipline they are in, I think that that is just fine.
But the horses ordinarily featured in this blog are of the type that wind up going through the auctions and going for a pittance.
They are the horses that either aren’t bred to do anything in particular, aren’t trained to do anything in particular or built well enough to stay sound doing it.
That’s where I draw my lines.
The rest is all an artistic opinion of what you want in a horse.
Now then . . . on with the show:
I’ve been reading Fugly for a week and enjoy the conformation analyses. What I take mild exception to is growling on people who apparently take good care of their horses, fugly or not. While I agree that being a “fairy artist” is an unusual occupation and hard to believe it keeps toadstool lady in “fantasy” horses, her hirsute animals are sleek and cared-for and don’t look like that from standing in the mud behind one strand of rusty barbed wire. If she can support her ethereal herd more power to her, and if folk want to breed to her studs, open ye olde cheque booque and have a ball. My concern lies with the poor little mutt horses who are scrawny, wormy, unshod, and neglected.
Now will the bartender mix me up a run & coke if you please?
Or even a ruM and coke. Oh dear, and I fancy myself an excellent speller.
the_farmers_wife, you have an absolutely magic way with words. I’ll pass you my rum and coke as soon as I finish pouring my own. (I’m a lover of “plain old bay” horses myself. Cheers!)
That’s all fine and dandy to breed what you want, “more power to them”, etc. BUT, I do take exception to the irresponsible breeding, under the guise of “performance” horses, whose only claim to fame might be a distant successful ancestor, or a high percentage “foundation” pedigree, or a horse of COLOR! It is reality that very few of these “performance” horses actually go on to do something. Even the well-bred ones who are by famous sires don’t always succeed. Where does leave the rest?
Breeding for something OTHER than for the improvement of the breed IS irresponsible, in my opinion. It’s those not-so-fugly-but-not-so-spectacular horses that people keep breeding, who usually end up creating fuglier horses that wind up on the meat guy’s truck.
Horses that are not spectacular do not bring good money. So who buys them? People who don’t have a clue about how to breed good horses. And these not-so-spectacular horses get bred to other not-so-spectacular horses, ultimately overpopulating the horse market with poor quality horses no one wants.
Dear incognitomosquito, thank you for the compliment, and I hope you did not mean “magic” in the “fairytale/elfin” way as the only wand I wield looks suspiciously like a lunge whip.
Dear futureofthebreed, I have no argument with you as I agree that each breeding should be towards improvement. (I’m six generations into my breeding and have the best colt I’ve ever had on the ground right now although he will shortly be a gelding because I have no desire/fencing/skills/$ to promote a stallion), plus his bloodlines are a dime a dozen in my breed. But he’s gonna make a splendiferous amateur ladies harness horse. And my other five generations back (a foal every four or five years) are well-loved show horses, kids’ lesson horses, or retirees in our own pasture. The best filly I ever bred had a successful show career all the way to nationals and is now knockin’em dead in CDEs.
Now our 29-yr twice national champion is showing age with poor teeth, can hardly get enough calories into him to keep weight, but he is busy being an uncle to my little guy and if this is his last job on this earth, this fall he will slip peacefully away on a final victory pass as the champion he is deserves. Guess I’m my own retirement center for my equine oldies. Not rich, gittin’ old, wear ragged ol’ sneaks but by gosh those ponies’ feet are trimmed every eight weeks!
Welcome to the Farmer’s Wife -
I am going to look forward to your posts.
Do understand that we don’t aim to “make fun” of the backyard horseman who may not have all the fancy equipment and an ultra elegant stable. In fact, my horses live for 8 mos of the year in a run-in shed, I ride “exposed to the elements” in my less-than-level” handcrafted riding arena and the only horse with papers in my herd of four is a WCMHR mini mare.
However, my horses are wormed, trimmed, vaccinated, floated and trained! (although my eldest sometimes forgets that last congugated verb).
What we take exception to is irresponsible backyard breeding by people who do not take the time to educate themselves on silly matters such as – decent recent bloodlines, conformation, temperament, genetic disorders – all for the want of turning what they think will be a quick buck or to produce “color!”
While some of the snarky remarks get a bit personal, the point is some people need to be exposed and soundly thrashed.
>>Most Tobiano cowhorses look like dumpy little colored mustangs.< <
Ditto grulla, buckskin, palomino, cremello, perlino, sabino cowhorses.
And I’m sorry, I know it wasn’t horse related, but when you are nearly 40 and tell the world, I believe the quote is, “I amn a fairy artist,” my natural reaction is going to be to laugh until I cry. She’s a good fairy artist! She’s very talented! It’s just that I associate fairies with 6 year olds who want to be a fairy princess. Not 40 year olds who live in Burbank. But hell, she’s probably making more money than I am or at least she sure as hell married better. A third acre in Burbank does not come cheap.
Welcome, the-farmer’s-wife.
Sounds like you have a nice group of horses there, and you have put your life’s work into creating them. And, you are taking responsibility for them. 
Hi, to all of you, Ive been reading the blogs with great interest now for the last five days, humour does succeed when you feel like banging your head againt a brick wall. Im from Great Britain and had not realised the extent of over breeding poor quality horses in America. My gosh when I viewed some of the horsey adverts that irresponsible morons wanted to swop their horses for hay and beer OMG, I had not heard anything like it.
Anyhow, I was looking for a Perlino/Cremello Stallion in Britain to see if they had any good ones to offer, I am making no judgements but could you tell me what you think of this one.
ALBA, Perlino (Double Dilute, Warmblood.
http://www.halonastud.co.uk/
Im sure I will be doing more posting here, quite addictive.
Here’s another example of a “Tobiano cowhorse”:
http://dreamhorse.com/show_horse.
php?form_horse_id=996683
$5500??? Not even a good pedigree can guarantee a quality horse, one that is capable of contributing to the future of the breed in a positive way. I guess if one leaves a halter on long enough, it will ruin the filly’s face and the price might come down a bit. Of course, someone will breed this filly when she’s old enough because of her bloodlines (and she’s homozygous!) and make more fugly Tobiano horses.
Hi Pandora217. Warmbloods are not my breed, although I can sure appreciate a quality one. I don’t believe any of those three stallions are fugly, but I don’t think they’re exceptional, either. Sort of middle of the road horses, in my opinion. But what do I know? LOL.
Dear forthefutureofthebreed, thank you for that validation. I thought about what you so kindly put into words, and you are right although I never thought of it that way. Heck, I hadn’t planned to go to Nationals this year as I have no horse in the ring this season, but darling hubby bought me a plane ticket anyway, stating, “I’d rather have you THERE THERE, than HERE wishing you were THERE every minute of the day.” Smart hubby.
And yes, they are a nice group, each carefully planned from conception through retirement.
Short story: Friends with a couple who’ve had very successful show horses (two mares). Both husband and wife eminently successful in their careers. About my age. When asked why they don’t breed their most spectacular mare they replied, “Because we are in our sixties and if a foal lives 30 years we’lll be in our 90s and not able to care for them, and we could never sell them” Makes sense to me, and for that same reason my latest colt will probably be my last, although my two horsey kids will know (and have written instructions plus a trust fund) to care for my beautiful horses if I die while a couple of them are still in my barn.
Now incognitomosquito, pray tell what breed of plain bays prefer you? I’ll show you mine if you show me yours…
Off topic, but…
rehomming husband
——————————————————————————–
Reply to: comm-394176271@craigslist.org
Date: 2007-08-10, 5:31PM PDT
I have 35 year old husband, who does not like my horse
I love my horse. I decide to rehome him, reason for rehomeing dont have time
for both. small rehomeing fee .All 5 children goes with husband.
THE-FARMER’S-WIFE – It’s so very hard to say anything negative about someone’s horses who obviously are trying to put forth the effort to breed good ones. But in order to be a responsible breeder, one must know what quality looks like, then try to emulate that. That also involves noticing the no-so-nice ones and being honest about it. Since we, as breeders, need to be honest about ourselves and our stock, it makes it easier to be honest about others as well.
You have a smart hubby!
And lucky you to go to Nationals! And I commend you for taking responsibility for your horses.
SHOVELS – LOL. That’s pretty funny. Reminds me of that ad a lady placed for husband or kitten for sale – Take your pick. (Had photos of both). LOL.
My vote for parent of the year goes to…
http://agdirect.com/scripts/hrsdetl.exe?1178915353&0
Why would you put a child that is probably not old enough to walk on the ground in front of 2 horses? Yeah, they’re minis but they could still squish that kid. Makes Brittney look like supermom!
I would be very hesitant to use the word “show” in reference to a good TWH. A good number of the top show horses in the breed have terrible, terrible legs and hooves, and the majority of the padded ones cannot gait properly. And the whole purpose of the breed is a horse that moves smoothly, so a TWH that does not do so is one with a particularly bad fault for the breed standard.
The show industry for TWH’s is not what any horseman would consider a good judge of quality. A showman, perhaps – not a horseman. Combined with the overwhelming practice of soring and “padding up”- a TWH show is not something ANY responsible horseman can handle.
Times may be changing, and I’ve seen an increased movement (mostly outside the South) for gaited horses that can perform in other areas. Western events, and dressage in particular are gaining momentum.
All that said, I fully agree with Fugly’s comments on these abysmal specimens. Just because I don’t support the standard in breed shows, doesn’t mean I don’t support basic tenets of what makes a good horse.
EXCEPT that I don’t agree about that saddlebred. It’s too waspy wasted to be considered superior quality, in my opinion. If all else was good, I would be fine with him keeping his testicles ONLY if he was routinely bred to ONLY more stout, sturdy mares of similar quality. Saddlebreds aren’t supposed to be muscle bound freaks, but they do need SOME substance.
Also, a parked horse (the pose that saddlebreds and TWH’s are shown in) is nigh impossible to accurately judge for croup and rear leg overall quality with high accuracy.
Soli,
TWH are definitely portrayed very differently than how they actually are. My horse trainer grew up on a large breeding and showing farm in NJ and herself owns 3 TWH mares. She has recruited numerous people including my mom onto the breed as well. Most just think of them as the horses with pads on their feet but that is only destroying them. The cool thing about the breed is that you can almost instantly tell what bloodlines they have and if they are truly pure. TWH only come in a few select colors if they are pure which means NO cremello can be a purebred. My mom has a spotted saddle horse which is basically just a TWH with color. Obviously this horse is not pure either but she does gait correctly. Someone did very select and careful breeding to get her color while keeping the correct gait. However, horses like that are rare in this breed! We ride our walkers western and only do trail riding which is what these horses are meant to do. For example, at the time, I only had my paint mare and my mom had her spotted walker. We went on a trail ride with a group for what we were told was about a 2 hour ride. We were riding with all QHs so naturally a walker moves out more and stayed at the front. My mare insists on being an “honorary walker” and was determined to stay right up there with her. The ride ended up lasting almost 4 hours! My poor horse was slightly more in shape and only 8 or 9 at the time and my moms horse was 16 and barely breathing hard! That is because TWH are made to go all day and that is not exaggeration. It takes double the amount of energy for a trotting horse to move then it does a TWH. They are just a cool breed and contrary to belief they have an amazing canter since I have had many people ask me if they can canter at all since they move differently. They pretty much just have 5 gaits instead of 3 basic ones. Back in March I rescued (and quickly gelded) a 3yr old TWH now gelding from a place in Bedford, VA where he was seized along with many others. I saw him and saw his potential. Whoever bred him knew what he/she was doing! This is an amazing little guy who just got back from 30 days professional training by a TWH trainer in NC and doing wonderful! If you are in the VA area email me at dana_renee@ymail.com. This guy really needs a home because I am a college student living 3 hours away from my horses so he is in my mom and trainers care right now. However, I will not let him go to the wrong home.
I won’t try to convince someone to get a TWH since I myself still have my Paint mare and wouldn’t trade her for the world! However, if you or someone you know wants to do strictly trail riding or endurance riding, consider the breed. I would not advise buying one without getting a truly knowledgeable person on the breed to ride and take a look at them first. Look for a horse that breaks into a trot and not a pace (lateral). That means they are gaited correctly.
My horse is fugly, I cannot lie,
But I will love him ’til I die.
I’ll help him o’er the Rainbow Bridge
And not end up in a Frenchman’s fridge.
Gosh, I was beginning to wonder if ANYONE was going to address the topic of TWH conformation … waiting for some feedback on the stallions I posted.
THE-FARMER’S-WIFE – What a great poem! Thanks for that!
I LOVE the cob.
Oh – if you don’t usually read back, please read our post on the Florida CRacker breed – with linked pictures. These are truly wonderful horses. Native Floridians call any old mutt horse a Cracker horse. They are not. The Cracker horse is a descendant of the mounts of the conquistadors, closely related to the paso fino and a truly amazing animal. Ours is also a beautiful copper bay zebra dun. He is a beautiful horse both inside and out. They are a tough, long lived, gaited breed. Supposedly the oldest horse on record is a Florida Cracker horse, now 50 and still being ridden.
Here is my NOT Fugly REAL Florida Cracker horse, not just a mutt wannabe Cracker horse.
XP— I’ve always been a fan of Gold’s Generator. I love the plantation style Tennessee Walkers! Alas, my father in law suprised me with a tobiano yearling so now I’m not into the gaited kind, although TJ tries really hard to be gaited she is not. Ps are you on my msn group??
WI or MI?
I’m not a fan of TWH nor do I covet buckskins, but all soring & stacking controversy aside, I adore Champagne Watchout and Natalie Jackson in their video at the 199 Celebration. The text is verrrrrry long, but you can skip the politics and go straight to the focus video on Watchout and Natalie’s performance in the WC and anyone would want a ride on that horse. Not sure of the exact wite, but if you Google up 199 Celebration Champagne Watchout Natalie Jackson you should be able to find it. Worth anybody’s time to watch.
Of course, their story brings up the Big Lick TWH issue but that is a topic unto itself.
forthegoodofthebreed, thank you for your kind remark about my ditty. I enjoy putting together a couplet or two when my muse isn’t hiding uder the bed.
the_farmers_wife said: “Now incognitomosquito, pray tell what breed of plain bays prefer you? I’ll show you mine if you show me yours…”
Almost any breed in a nice bay will tickle my fancy, though I prefer my horses very small or very large. However, I am a strong believer that a good horse is never a bad colour and so even though I set out to find myself a lovely bay I have two little equines who are… well… not bay.
I fear I am destined to go through life wanting a horse of one of the single most common colours only to end up with colours that other people like far more than I do.
forthefutureofthebreed said…
That’s all fine and dandy to breed what you want, “more power to them”, etc. BUT, I do take exception to the irresponsible breeding, under the guise of “performance” horses, whose only claim to fame might be a distant successful ancestor, or a high percentage “foundation” pedigree, or a horse of COLOR!
I thought I covered that with having a proven set of parents. *scratching head*
I think you misunderstood me, as I am very much on your side on this. And just like dogs, whose ultimate curse is to be in the top 5 popular breeds of the AKC, a breed or type of horse is cursed when people who don’t know anything about the animals want a ‘buckskin’ or ‘cremello’ or ‘to breed spotted paint horses’… just like a ‘jack russell terrier’, a ‘black lab’ or a ‘golden retriever’… the breed suffers because of ignorant people breeding animals that shouldn’t be bred.
I have come to the realization that the human race is basically lazy and are content in breeding garbage junk animals that they THINK they know something about but don’t… that they can get a couple of hundred dollars for at the auction or sell to unsuspecting schmucks who will pay $1,200 for an ill-conformed horse of color just because the person says it’s fabulous.
Ugh, I could list example after example on into the night, I swear I could… and with each example, I become angrier and more frustrated.
Breeders, have a GOAL in your breeding!!!!
To better the breed is such a broad goal… while it is CERTAINLY worthwhile and should be a PRIMARY goal of any breeder, I like to see people who breed soundness and talent along with brains and a good work ethic in their horses of ANY BREED. Like I said, the rest is up to the artistic interpretation of the breeder. But if the basic foundation of a good horse is laid, there should be little problem in finding it a long-term home in which it can lead a happy and useful life.
And let’s face it – that should be the ultimate goal of any breeder. Not how for how much or how many you can sell – not how many you can produce in a year – and not how many people you can pull one over on and convince that your horses are good and to buy one based solely on your opinion and not on any proven facts.
Three cheers for those out there doing the right thing and breeding quality. We tend to focus a lot on the bad… there are many good ones out there doing the right thing too.
Unfortunately, I really do think that there are more out there doing the wrong thing than the right thing when it comes to breeding horses.
incognitomosquito ‘fessed up so I must keep my promise. Mine are all plain bays with barely a white star amongst them, plus one verrry dark bay, I guess “brown” as he’s black with mealy flanks and muzzle. All Morgans, all dear to my heart, all with enviable pedigrees proved with performance from the local dirt circuit to Nationals in Oklahoma City.
Despite many’s preference for the taller Morgan, I like’em short —easier to climb on to, closer to the ground to fall off of.
Dear FHOTD, can hardly wait for tomorrow’s installment as I am sure to learn something.
farmer’s wife:
Yes, the Jacksons and their stallion are a prime example of a high quality TWH’s, good horsemanship, and *gasp* COLOR!
They’re very political – which we probably need more of in the TWH world. Their website is, unfortunately, a bit of an eyesore, but they have great horses and are the ONLY show barn I’ve had any respect for in Tennessee.
They’re also one of the prime drivers of the dressage movement in the gaited horse world, something I back 100%.
I fully agree with the Jacksons. They breed BEAUTIFUL horses and are fighting the ugly that is making the TWH’s look bad. They aren’t a bad breed, but like with anything, there are bad people who breed them.
The Jacksons have great taste in horses. Their stallion is correct, moves great, has good breeding, and has a great mind. What more could you want?
That horse is a great example of having it all (Champagne Watchout). Seriously, the webpage may not be beautiful (I webdesign, so I am picky), but yeah the text and videos say it all.
I have talked to the Jacksons (Mr. Jackson and Natalie) and find them to both be wonderfully enlightened people. As ForTheFutureofTheBreed said, you should breed to further it. I think that is what they are doing. They are breeding horses that can do anything they put their mind to.
I thoroughly agree with their dressage emphasis, too. Dressage can help you and your horse A LOT – in everything from pleasure to hunters. I wish more people in the industry were like them.
That TWH stallion is NOT a good example of the breed. Look at Champagne Watchout – HE is an excellent example.
Okay FHOTD enthusiasts, I double-dog-dare our Snarker-Who Must-Be-Obeyed to put up a couple of pictures of registered Morgans and toss out a few names such as Black Hawk, Jubilee King, Lippitt, Ben Don, Nocturne, and Noble Flaire, then get ready for some real flamethrowing. I’ll hold your coat.
Luckily the snickety infighting amongst some Morgan folk does nothing to detract from the wonderfulness of a fine breed. With Nationals coming up in Oklahoma City Oct 9-13 I invite anybody to come admire over a thousand of the breed’s best show horses, many presented by fancy show barns, many by their backyard owners, and both sectors are competitive and have a heck of a lot of fun.
Since the tobianos seam to have cornered the excellence in jumping and dressage I’d be more then happy to see the overos do what ever it is that they do well. Of course there are some overos that do well in these areas but they frequently also have JC after their name.
What it all boils down to is many people can’t tell a good horse from a bad horse. Near as I can tell that includes a lot of judges.
I’m not fond of all the horses that are post legged and any horse built down hill, to me that would be almost an automatic disqualification for breeding. But that seems to be quite popular in some breeding circles.
I once helped put together a beginning horse owners class for our University along with some other folks. They wanted to start out with breeds. I argued for activities and being the silver tongued devil that I am that is where we started.
I think that the problem with riding in general is that we promote breeds not activities so we end up with breeds with conformation unsuitable for a lot of activities or suitable for only a few activities.
If you enjoy trail riding don’t get a short strided horse. If you want to ride distance horses don’t get a bulky muscled horses. I you want to do cow work get something that has joints that will take it.
Certainly horse racing where the outcomes are clear (hey I’m not a big fan of racing but it does have clear out comes) has shown us that even the best to the best doesn’t always give us the performance outcome we want, and while TB breeding is almost never by chance there have certainly been some less than stellar bloodlines that have performed well and passed it on.
I own a barn full of TWH’s with the ocassional other gaited breed thrown in for fun. I breed on a very small scale, and am incredibly selective. I must say that I have been very fortunate in that all of my home bred horses are gorgeous, naturally gaited, and won’t ever make your fugly list. I do not currently stand a stallion, but when I had a true, breeding quality TWH (may he RIP), I would have never bred him to unregistered stock. Grade mares lead to grade babies. The market is full of them and they are a dime a dozen. I wouldn’t take someone’s money knowing full well that I’d be adding to the grade horse population. It is hard enough to breed for quality, why compromise the breed I love further just to make a few bucks?
That said, there is no excuse for FUGLY horses to be in the gaited breeds. If breeders had been breeding responsibly, we would have bred the fugly out by now and bred natural, barefooted gaiting ability back in. The fugly examples posted on your blog shouldn’t ever be bred. These are perfect examples of why I wish our breed had an inspection and approval process for breeding stock. Yes, I might take a fugly horse for a spin as a favor to a friend, but you won’t even find one in residence at my barn.
A nice, attractive horse can easily be recognized as such even by a novice. The SB and Cob, while drastically different in body types, are both beautiful. Putting a fugly up with those for comparison makes it even more apparent. I hope someone sends your blog to the owner(s) of those poor gaited creatures. Perhaps some public humiliation will inspire them to re-think that breeding program. *shudder*
Gunnerhorse – is that you from the HTW forum? It’s me, with the Titan!
Anyway, that picture gets my nomination for stupid parent of the century!
I’m going to see what I can find for today’s blog.
Colorisnteverything–
I asked Futureofthebreed because I was curious. I’m a TB hunter/jumper/wannabe racehorse owner and know next to NOTHING about QH’s. The only reason I know anything at all about Delta Flyer and Delta O’Lena is that once, years ago, I got to meet Peppy San Badger on a King Ranch tour and was curious about his kids. That’s all.
I am the first to admit that I am ignorant in many things.
pandora – if the ‘breed standard’ is for horses to be deliberately that foul, that just makes it WORSE. youre saying hes SUPPOSED to be that appalling like its a defence!! *LOL*
name a handful of grand prix showjumpers who are akhal tekes, if theyre bred for and excel at that purpose. go on, i dares ya.
that particular stallions jumping pix were bloody ordinary. just another case of ignorant people distracted by colour and the ‘exotic’ over purpose and substance.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD said, “I have come to the realization that the human race is basically lazy and are content in breeding garbage junk animals that they THINK they know something about but don’t…”
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve observed over the last 40 or so years this phenomenon. People are just not willing to make the effort to learn about what it is they are doing. I think part of it is laziness, and some of it is not knowing how to go about learning more about breeding, pedigrees, genetics, etc. I think this is a business where people need mentors. But so many are not willing to share their knowledge, especially on internet forums. If they do, it makes them huge targets of criticism by the morons that are either jealous, or have nothing better to do with their time than to stir up shit. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen an experienced, older person state something I know is fact, and then some brain dead 20-year-old comes along with a big mouth, running them down. It’s a wonder anyone says anything at all. Which is why FHOTD is so popular, even if some don’t agree with the content. This is someone who is standing up for what is right, and pointing out what is wrong.
I’ve always said that there aren’t many serious breeders. And by serious, I mean those who will put forth the effort to learn all they can about their breed, along with having class, honesty and attention to detail. Serious breeders eventually become experts in their field. These are characteristics you don’t see in the lower level BYB who breeds poor quality junk. There IS no excuse for fugly horses.
You said we tend to focus on the bad. That is a natural thing to do, and believe it or not, we learn more from the bad than the good. It’s not hard to show someone an example of an exceptional horse. But we learn from the bad because we learn what NOT to do. After seeing examples of the bad, the good ones really stand out. People really learn from what not to do. They say if you’re going to make a mistake, make it a BIG one, because you will remember not to ever do that again.
Of course, those breeders who are knowledgeable about horses realize that certain characteristics should be a given. Disposition, athleticism, correct conformation, adherence to breed standard, etc. You’re right, personal preference is just that, and each person has a different taste in type, color, size, etc. But all the basic principles apply, no matter what breed of horse you prefer.
To better the breed IS a broad goal. But it should be priority ONE with any breeder. The basic principles of a correct horse should apply regardless of what the goal is. In my opinion, a responsible breeder doesn’t make earning money as a priority with their breeding program. A responsible breeder is passionate about what they are doing, and if they do their homework properly, they will be rewarded in many ways.
FHOD, no I’m not from the HTW forum but I’m flattered that someone has the good taste to use my name. Actually it’s the name of my old gelding. (not a fugly horse but still a gelding. I don’t want a stallion for a riding horse.)
Oops, that wasn’t to FHOD that was to luvmyfuglyhorse. I need so much more caffine. What is the HTW forum? Sounds interesting.
OMG thisblogrocks, here’s a direct quote from the craiglist link you posted:
“BECAUSE I HAVE NO TIME FOR HIM AND HE HAS BECOME JUST A YARD ORNAMENT, AND ALTHOUGH HE IS PRETTY TO LOOK AT, HE NEEDS TO BREED!”
Just amazing.
He needs gelding and training.
Although, I have a new question related to that…but I think I will do it as a new post because I think a lot of people will be interested in commenting.
More irresponsible breeders who think because their horse is ‘cute’ and sitting around, it should breed to their neighbors crossbred stallion.
Look at this pitiful horse I found on dreamhorse
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1036730
They are selling her as a ‘broodmare only’. Hopefully it’s the camera angle that is making her look like a weiner dog, but I sincerely doubt it.
Gunnerhorse –
(Off Topic)
That forum is
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com
Yes, I know an entire website complete with forums about horse trailers? I need to get a life! But I found it when I was researching what kind of trailer to buy. There’s a gunnerhorse there too and we both have Titan tailers. I think her horse’s name is Gunner.
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1036730
They are selling her as a ‘broodmare only’. Hopefully it’s the camera angle that is making her look like a weiner dog, but I sincerely doubt it.
Awww, too bad she so far away and I don’t want to board another horse, My daughter would LOVE her, and she would NEVER be bred. Poor thing, I hope she gets a home that won’t breed her.
Check out this horse.
He gets my vote for CROSSBREED of the year.
He is 3/4 Lusitiano 1/4 QH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMOR5SvnCS0
I had to come to FHOTD when I accidentally stumbled across the following ad on PetFinder for something that appears to be a perlino? equine-of-some-sort:
Coconut Cream
Breed: Tennessee Walker
Sex: Male
Age: Young
Size: Medium
ID: Coconut Cream
From: Voice For Horses Rescue Network
Email the adoption organization
All About Coconut Cream
Talk about color this guy has it all, a great personality and aconfindent little horse. His color says it all, has is 15 months old, mature to 15 h he is TWH cross but we do not know what he is crossed with. sound healthy and ready to learn and is currently still a stallion adoption fee $350
This pet is up to date with routine shots.
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8967018#
WTF? A rescue organization selling (sorry, “adopting out”) an intact male horse? Targeting, apparently, backyard color breeders? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LOOK PAST THE COLOR AND GELD HIM! Or make lots of room in your rescue for his offspring in a few years. Argh.
I have a cremello mare, I bought here just before AQHA started registering them so she wasn’t worth much and I didn’t pay much for her. She is one of the best horses I’ve been around. Great temperment, super quiet, great with my kids, just a nice mare all around. My friend leased her from me and bred her to a nice stallion and got a really nice buckskin tobiano, who is now with a family that adores him to death. Once I got her back from my lease, I was approached by many people wanting to breed her. Some were nice stallions, some were dog food. I’ve decided for now that she will remain baby free. I have no use for a foal, and now is not the time to bring in more foals into this world. I had someone out in CA with a cremello stallion mentioned above (one of the nicer ones) that wanted to lease her a few years ago, so I don’t think my mare is all that bad. I also had a breeder with a Arab stallion want to lease her for a foal, again I turned it down. So please don’t think that all double dilute owners are nothing buy baby makers. I’m not. I’ve seen many cremello geldings (although lately they are hard to find).
Picklelover – that kind of shit makes me absolutely sick.
Yes, that’s one incredibly trained horse. But the practice of bullfighting is absolutely barbaric.
It’s disgusting and heartbreaking. What the fuck is wrong with people/
Re: Jewish stallion
Sorry I’m late coming into this. I’m not a color genetics whiz, but the rules as I learned them were:
To be a cremello, a horse has to be double dilute. His dam is gray, from a bay/gray breeding, so apparently his dam must have been born buckskin and grayed. As his sire was a buckskin, this would make him perlino, no?
They also state this horse “may have the graying gene”. Gray=dominant and must be expressed to be passed on, yes? And if this boy hasn’t grayed by three, I’m thinking there ain’t no way no how he’s going to turn gray.
So not only is the stallion crappy but his owners uneducated?
This cremello stallion
has the ability to
throw foals of
color…..
His double dilute genes
will
most likely give you
palomino’s and
buckskins.
He is homozygous
cremello.
He cannot give you bay
or
sorrel foals under
any circumstances.
“HeBe white lightning”
is still an unproven
stallion and may
throw the gray gene
also. After a few
breedings we will know
if he carries this gene.
the-farmer’s-wife said…
I’m not a fan of TWH nor do I covet buckskins, but all soring & stacking controversy aside, I adore Champagne Watchout and Natalie Jackson in their video at the 199 Celebration. The text is verrrrrry long, but you can skip the politics and go straight to the focus video on Watchout and Natalie’s performance in the WC and anyone would want a ride on that horse. Not sure of the exact wite, but if you Google up 199 Celebration Champagne Watchout Natalie Jackson you should be able to find it. Worth anybody’s time to watch.
That horse was just hideously out of place. Champagne Watchout or his rider should have not been there period. Even in a flat shod class where he does fit in, he is not a good example of the flat shod breeding. He does some sort of weird gait when they call a running walk that some is sort of mix between a road gait and running walk or stepping pace. If your shoulders and ponytail are moving that much, then it isn’t all that smooth.
Also, her parents get my vote for the Parents’ Darwin Awards. Putting a kid in a class full of trainers with a stallion. That just gave everyone else in the ring something to work about.
We have Racking Horses and my hubby has had the occasional big lick horse (which neither of us like) but got into because of some trades. I do go the shows but I do not push them to others, you like them or you don’t. I personally like the exaggerated step and the flashyness of a padded horse. Doesn’t matter if they are ASB, TWH, RHBAA, NRHA, or Hackney. But don’t screw up a good flat shod horse either, if they can do and do it correctly flatshod, don’t be screwing with it.
We see lots of cases where people take their perfectly good flatshod and kegshod horses and try padding them. ***shakes head*** Not all horses have the heart or the talent. Don’t be trying to put something together than isn’t broken.
But no matter what, choose the right place to showcase your horse and you will succeed. The dressage they have him doing now suits him much better than showing him in the arena against others. It shows his natural abilities better.
For a better of idea of him, visit them at:
http://www.walkinonranch.com/
UHM, ok im totally drooling all over the computer on that welsh cob……Thats a horse I would love to have in my barn….. But *sigh* my barn is full with 3 horses so no mas por favor.