I thought that when I found the NH guy jumping the itty bitty weanling over a log that I had found the only such instance of that kind of moronic behavior on the Internet. I was wrong! An alert reader sent me this sale photo of a $7500 colt…born May 2007. That makes him 3 months old, or not even. The ad brags that “genetically he has the potential to be a GP Jumper.” His genetics won’t matter if you break him down at 3 months trying to make a “cool” sales video. By the way, he’s in Tennessee. If the South would like me to stop making fun of it, it needs to exile a lot of its residents to Siberia, or at least keep them off the Internet.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but this would totally turn me off of buying him. For $7500, I want a 3 month old who is still happily grazing with his mom and focusing on nothing more than growing. The only things he needs to know how to do at this point are lead and pick up his feet.
Another baby massively overjumping a small X. Seriously, how is this supposed to prove future Olympic-level jumping talent? I’ve seen the same reaction – complete with tight knees and “round” appearance – from a great many horses upon being faced with their first obstacle. Once jumping became old hat, they quickly showed their true “level of talent” – complete with hanging knees, flat backs, and twisty hindquarters.
I know veterinary opinion is divided on how much damage this will actually cause. I do know that healthy foals routinely perform airs above the ground just for the hell of it. But I can’t look at these pictures and see them as anything more but part of the huge problem we have in America – rushing horses into performance careers at too young an age.
One apologist for breaking yearlings online brags about his experience on a TB farm that “During the three years that I was there, out of about 100 horses, not one broke down beyond further use and only three went lame during all that time.” OK, so that was while they were what, 4 years old and under? What do you suppose the soundness percentage dropped to by age 15? I’m guessing that herd wasn’t a pretty sight 10 years down the road. Heck, I probably saw some of them limping around the round pen at the auctions!
I like to point out the conformation flaws that will keep a horse from still being sound at 15, but the other element is related to work.
I’ve seen it all and I know you have too – the 2 year olds being loped for 45 minutes at 3 AM the morning of their big money snaffle bit futurity, the 15 and 16 month olds being broke for the track, backyard horsepeople thinking it’s ok for the kids to ride the yearling because “they don’t weigh much.” Pushing a horse too early is an epidemic that affects both big breeding farms and backyard horsepeople equally. We saw it the other day with “natural horsemanship,” but today’s examples come from the very traditional world of eventing. Everybody wants to get to the point where they can “do something” with the horse, and unfortunately, the horse is an animal that is slow to mature. It’s not just the knees – it’s the back, too. Ever wonder why we have so many back problems with our horses and the chiropracters are laughing all the way to the bank? It’s all about early riding and pushing them too hard for their level of skeletal development.
Relax, people. Go play with your weanlings and yearlings. Teach them to pick up their feet, teach them to clip, teach them to load, stand out in the field and braid their little manes if it makes you happy. Teach them showmanship and in-hand trail if you’re itching to show. No, I don’t think a short trail ride or doing a little walk-jog around the round pen for 15 minutes is going to hurt the average 2 year old, but there is a big difference between that and jumping, galloping, and other high impact activities. If you want to jump tomorrow, buy a 4 or 5 year old and go for it. They are easy enough to find!
Let your babies be babies, and let them grow up to stay sound for 25 years or more.
P.S. Fig, I’m still waiting for that list of names of addresses of people who are dying to provide good homes for some “Pasture Art.” Feel free to post it to the comments, I am sure I am not the only one who would be happy to deliver some to them! You must have a handle on a whole world I don’t know about, because in my world most people want riding horses, and in an economy where you can buy something rideable for $500, the unrideable “Pasture Art” barely stands a ghost of a chance of finding a safe place to call home. Hence the reason I harp nonstop on keeping horses sound and usable for life. Staying sound – at least sound enough for lessons and little ones – is the only “retirement plan” most horses will ever have.
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I thought that when I found the NH guy jumping the itty bitty weanling over a log that I had found the only such instance of that kind of moronic behavior on the Internet. I was wrong! An alert reader sent me this sale photo of a $7500 colt…born May 2007. That makes him 3 months old, or not even. The ad brags that “genetically he has the potential to be a GP Jumper.” His genetics won’t matter if you break him down at 3 months trying to make a “cool” sales video. By the way, he’s in Tennessee. If the South would like me to stop making fun of it, it needs to exile a lot of its residents to Siberia, or at least keep them off the Internet. 
Another baby massively overjumping a small X. Seriously, how is this supposed to prove future Olympic-level jumping talent? I’ve seen the same reaction – complete with tight knees and “round” appearance – from a great many horses upon being faced with their first obstacle. Once jumping became old hat, they quickly showed their true “level of talent” – complete with hanging knees, flat backs, and twisty hindquarters.
Don’t worry. When fillies like this break down. They can just be bred – sound or not.
A horse I learned to ride on is up for sale – $2,000.00. She was worth nearly TEN in her day. She’s unsound because of her confo. Can barely walk and they are selling her as only a brood. Great. Made me get close to tears. She was the sweetest mare. She deserves a good retirement and nothing less.
That last picture made me go Wha…?? Who the hell in their right mind would post a picture like that to try and sell this poor baby? A picture of Britney’s hoo-hoo (as discussed earlier) would have sold the horse better…
On a different note, fuglyhorse, you rock. Here’s some inspiration for the next post:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad220128
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad218932
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad220974
Another fabulous entry. Thanks, FHotD!
For anyone who would like to know more details on how and when horses’ skeletons mature (it’s not *just* about the knees “closing”), Deb Bennett has a great article here: http://www.equinestudies.org/
knowledge_base/ranger.html
Wow Anna – that second link! At first I thought it was a cow. Then I read “mustang”. Yikes! At least he is a gelding!
Anna – okay, the last pic looks like a wienerdog. I have never EVER seen a back so long on a weanling. OMG.
Is it a Cowrse…?? is it a How…?? Have $500 that you want to throw away? Buy this How! Apparently he’s ‘ready to start’. Start what? *pictures him as a Grand Prix dressage horse*
And a reminder for anyone who’s never seen a horse auction, you can watch online from the comfort and safety of your own PC. Wednesday afternoons, the Centennial Livestock Auction in Ft. Collins, CO can be viewed here:
http://www.dvauction.com/
You’ll need to register (free, easy, not a lot of info required). They do the horses at the end of the day after the cattle, swine, etc. The horses they get are pretty representative of what ends up at auction. The kill buyer at this particular auction is #315. The horses that go to “315 straight” are going straight to the kill pen.
Go ahead. Watch the auction. I hope it serves as a reality check for some.
FUGLY SAID: “Staying sound – at least sound enough for lessons and little ones – is the only “retirement plan” most horses will ever have.”
TRUER MORE PROPHETIC WORDS HAVE NEVER BEEN SPOKEN
ANNA: http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad220974
NO WAY! IF I DID NOT SEE IT – I WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED IT!!
HOW DID THEY MAKE THAT? WHAT DID MA AND PA LOOK LIKE?????
FHOTD: Thank you for this post. It never seems to amaze me the number of professional horse trainers that push their horses to young. Why do you think there are so many TB broodmares??? My brother is a TB trainer and he is laughed at because he won’t race a 2yr old!!DUH…..
We have a 2 yr old TB filly right now that is 16.1 that was eligible for all kind of stakes and allowance races this year. We did not enter her because we would like her to be sound to run her 3,4,5 yr old year. What horrible people we are!!!
But I gurantee you his horses @ 7,8,9 yrs old are still rideable when theirs went to the killers or in a wonderfull BYB stable!!!!
The TB people ruin enough horses to keep the kill buyers rolling in dough for years!!! It just pisses me off the number of horses that are injured and ruined due to hard training at such a young age!!
THATA A LONG BACK!
Oh, jesus. My favourite. I love when people claim their horse is “scopey” but really….well, you know.
I can’t believe the stupid things do with their horses, let alone the poor babies! When I contacted a hunter trainer a few years ago to come give lessons to my mare and I – I’d gotten her off the track at the age of 3 but didn’t start any type of real work with her until she turned 4 – she was THRILLED to learn that I had NEVER free jumped her or put her down a shute. That wasn’t the way I wanted to start my horse. Some people are just idiots and don’t deserve horses.
They probably bred the one with the long back with a big family in mind. So that all the rugrats could sit on one horse. LOL
Wow that is a looooong back, but did you see this stallion prospect’s front legs offered by the same owner?
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad220969
Yikes poor little guy in the second pic jumpin, babies should be aloud to be babies and yes they run and jump around but we shouldn’t make them sheesh would you make your 2 year old daughter perform huge feats of physical exertion nope so why make a baby horse.
Wow, I have no words. Stupid people…..
Jumping those little foals is just outrageous and totally assinine. I also think those stupid ass longe line futurities are too . Who in Gods name started that shit needs to be beat into oblivion! I have seen so many nice babies ruined for the sake of the all mighty dollar and that precious ribbon for bragging rights. I so agree with FH , let those babies be just that, BABIES !
OMG! anna, those links just made me cringe! That first foal, OMG! “NO ONE BUYS THE WRONG HORSE FROM REVELATION FARMS!” Who the hell in thier right mind would say that and show that nasty looking thing and be proud they bred it! I just had to laugh! As for those other babies, poor things, they just didn’t have a prayer at the time of conception. Though the third one , it may have just been a very bad picture , but still it looks like a wiener dog in the picture.
dontyouridenofuglyhorse… O.o…Ooooooo! Those legs look like trees… *hides*
I THINK THE DERBY RACE AND OTHERS LIKE IT SHOULD RAISE THE AGE BY A YEAR AND MAYBE SOME OF THESE TB TRAINERS WOULDN’T PUSH THIER COLTS SO QUICKLY. I PERSONALLY DON’T PUSH MY 2 YEAR OLDS. THEY ARE SAT ON, RODE IN A FEW CIRCLES AND BACKED. I WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE 3 BEFORE I PUT ANY MILES ON THEM. I PLAN ON HAVING THEM AROUND FOR A WHILE. A HORSE IS ONLY AS GOOD AS HIS FEET AND LEGS. KEEPING THEM SOUND SHOULD BE A TOP PRIORITY.
>> I also think those stupid ass longe line futurities are too . Who in Gods name started that shit needs to be beat into oblivion!< <
The longe line futurities were started to give owners something to “do” with their non-halter-quality yearlings. They were SUPPOSED to give them something age-appropriate to do. Do you know what happened?
You guessed it. People RODE them at home to get them BROKE enough to win the longe line futurities! I saw tons of it. Because what won in the longe was not a normal yearling with a natural headset, but something troping around with its neck level.
Out of the frying pan, into the fire!
dontyouridenofuglyhorse,the link to that sales page OMG! Those legs look like a compass out of comtrol! Holly crap someone needs to knock that “breeder” in the head and geld and spay thier herd!
Well, not surprising. Did you read the ad with Mr. Crooked Legs?
“if your intrested in the good looking cold his parnets are her on the farm”
Oh yeah, THIS person has studied genetics before deciding to breed…sure.
There is so much folks can do with babies that does not require ruining their growing legs and backs. Work simple trail obstacles at a walk in hand. Sure, put a lightweight saddle on a late yearling/2 yr old and teach them to ground drive while wearing a saddle. All that groundwork will be rewarded when you swing your leg over them the first time….at the age of 3 or later if they’re super growthy. I personally can wait to get on them and prefer to have my horses last a long time because I was willing to wait an extra year. I would love nothing more than to see 2 yr old racing and 2 yr old western pleasure/hunter under saddle classes disappear completely.
Oh my god those poor horses for sale and did you see the prices???
What the hell!!! If they sell those horses for that kind of money I will know that the horse business is in the shitter!!!!
Now if they advertised them as fugly okay but to think you have an awesome breeding program with that?????? I have no words.
I had a fugly horse to sell for a friend and this is how I advertised him.
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-33782
You know people where mad at me for calling him ugly???? I mean I got some nasty e-mails telling me off!!! WHAT???
If you view the owner’s other horses from that revolation farm…if you scroll down you will see a horse that had already been posted by fugly before!! The paint with the roman nose?!? Anywho…what was wrong with the baby (on revolutions site for sale) and don’t jump me for asking that question. After all this is an “educational” site and I honestly don’t think the yearling is all that bad actually quite nice for a walker.
The aunt of one of the girls at my barn is a big name jumper. Held a record for high jump for some time. So, big name person, big name horses, you’d think she knows what she’s doing right?
Another gal at the barn bought a 3 yr old from her this spring. That is, she would be 3 in the spring, they bought her in Feb. The filly was already an accomplished jumper at 3’3″. Beautiful yes, but I was appalled! The amount of money they spent on her, and for her to be a mostly finished jumper by this time…. holey crap! She had the worst ground manners, could tie, couldn’t haul in a trailer, she’d kick and bite, she coliced after being ther for 4 weeks. Colic surgery doubled the amount they had into her. She was broke, rode wonderfully.
I’m just shocked. I was always led to believe that the real jumpers don’t start their horses over fences until 5 or 6. ?!?
fuglyhorseoftheday , thanks for that bit of info, I am not suprised they rode those babies, I see it way to much in all the breeds of horses here state side , wether it be for show , race or pleasure , people are greedy and we all are gulity in some mannor of it I guess ,
unless your perfect!LOL!
Spinningpeppy – but don’t you realize the horse was going to read the ad on the Internet and his feelings were going to get hurt? LOL…
It reminds me of a horse book I read as a kid…they were saying that you can walk up to a horse and say, in a sweet and loving tone of voice, “why you mangy, lop eared, homely piece of Alpo” and the horse will take it better than if you charge up to it squealing that it’s the most beautiful horse in the world in a tone that would break glass. It’s TRUE.
Not to stir the shit (who me? nah never) I believe that the OWNERS of the TB’s as well as other breeds, deserve some of the blame as well, after all they want to see a return on their investment! It is a rare Trainer who will stand up to the owner and say “NO”
Lounge line futurities don’t really bother me muchas long as the horse is only longed minimally, but this is rarely the case. I wouldn’t do one with my boy. He is being handled, but just being a horse right now. However, I do like the yearling in hand trail classes. They are far better on the horse’s joints and they will actually help a horse practically later in life. Those definitely don’t bother me.
I agree with the in hand trail, I have done that , I like taking my yearlings through those , it is good for them . As for the longe line futurites, ick .
wildcabio, very true about the owners being part of the blame. when your bread and butter is that owners horse you try to please them with the results. I chased a few of those pushy owners from my barn and never regreted it. I took the welfare of our horses and thier soundness over the dollar, I made good money with sound horses dispite the standing up to pushy pissy owners demanding I needed to get that horse going faster ,to show thier money was well spent. But sadly not all trainers do that and in the end there is too many nice horses gone to waste and crippled for the sake of fast results.
I created a FHOTD message board. I enjoy reading the comments, but I thought it would be easier if they’re in thread form. You can also post pictures. You can log in using your TMP name, if you have one. There’s a chat room too.
It’s brand new, I just did it this morning. If anyone starts using it, I will fix it up as I go along, and there’s a suggestion forum too.
Here’s the link:
http://p068.ezboard.com/bfhotdmessageboard
Please come on down and start a discussion on today’s FHOTD! Thanks!
Ah… here’s a chance to educate:
So I bred my mare…
First let me say I LOVE the blog – keep up the good work.
As to the foals jumping – mine did that when they were young – out in pasture jumping the logs as they chased each other around. I just didn’t manage to get a photo of it. One of them was a 5 month old miniature and he was fast (still is) and funny to watch running with the other horses. I also have a freind that had a 4 month old AQHA that use to jump out of her stall run(5 foot high pipe rails) regularly to see the other horses, leaving her dam behind. So foals that jump are not that rare. I just hope that the photos were taken as the foals were playing and not forced. We will never know unless we asked the person that took the photos. I am never quick to pass judgement on how a photo shoot took place.
Just a side note: I am not a breeder but I got my foals as weanlings.
Well, I really don’t think the first one was playing in a jumping chute…
Citydog, thank you for posting that first link.
I was planning to back my TB/ASB cross at 2 1/2, then start work at 3; but after reading that article, I’ve decided to wait until he’s at least 3 1/2 to back him, and 4 before I start any real work.
cenedra91 , the chestnut walking horse foal , I personally think he is a poor example of his breed because he is very U necked , hammer headed and he also lacks a nice bootie , but then he looks a bit under fed for his age. I know hammer heads are frequent in gaited breeds , but his is really ugly and his neck is just nasty. But he looks like a loveable , huggable sweetie pie and if someone thinks he is thier cup o’ tea, well then he will be thier lovely boy then. I have no problem with owning ugly horses, hell I have had my share, I loved them to peices , but I NEVER bred them.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!! I get SO tired of listening to people talk about “starting” their 18 month old, or their 2 year old. Especially those wonderful performance horse/race horse “prospects”. UGHHHHH!! For cryin’ out loud … let ‘em be HORSES for awhile! But then again, it’s usually “those kind” of people that only care about the almighty dollar anyway and not the real welfare of the horse. That is as much of a pet peeve of mine as “unnecessary” breeding.
AMEN to this! WAY too many people think you HAVE to break a horse by the time they are two year olds! I waited until my mare was 4 to start her under saddle and I cant tell you how many trainers and riders alike give me BS about it. They seem to have this idea that if you dont start em young that they cant be started, that they mentally shut down or become to set in thier ways. I personally have found that older horses are not only more mature physically but ALSO more mature mentally as well, making them much more prepared for the trials of under-saddle work. This is not to say that you shouldn’t work with your two-year olds. Like you said there are so many other acceptable lessons that they can be learning a that age. Good trainers appreciate recieving a horse that is plesant to handle and be around as apossed to one that has just been pulled out of the pasture for the first time because the owners think that the only thing you can do with a horse is ride it, HA!
Done ranting for now….. LJ
I personally like to leave mine out to pasture until they are 2. They will then be brought up and start on their saddling/lunging/bitting etc. We may get on and off a couple of times. So they stay up for a month or two, go back out for the summer, come back in in the fall. We start the process again, and continue with riding. I like a good 30 rides on them fall of their 2 yr old year. I want them to walk, trot, lope, stop and back. I want them to pick up their leads naturally. So they may be in again for 2 months, then go back out until they are ready for their jobs, whether that be 3 or 4 or 5 yrs old.
This way they are allowed to be horses, but mentally I have established that they will be ridden. It is much easier on them and no great shock when they are older then.
Yeah, too many are worked too hard before they are ready. The earliest I backed a horse was 2 1/2, and that was at a walk – by the time she was 3 1/2 and was ready to trot she had basic lateral work and a great halt, then I didn’t canter her until she was 5. Now, starting her at 2 1/2 means she was so quiet that at 6 she is now the best kids horse.
We have a boarder here, she was jumping her WB at 3. Been trying to nicely tell her that’s stupid, but what can you do? Now at 5 she’s jumping 4′. Again, not right. Our six year old just started jumping. She’ll go forever. Annnd guess what the horse will do once she’s broken down? Yup, she’s planning on breeding her.
Yeah I would never put a weanling through a jumping chute, our foal used to sail over every rock or log in the paddock, but through a chute is ridiculous.
horror-fied said…
Ah… here’s a chance to educate:
So I bred my mare…
August 8, 2007 11:00 AM
That asshat is on a horse forum I visit. I recognize the screen name and the horses. She was told pretty much the same thing on that forum too. Another mediocre backyard baby. Great.
horror-fied said…
Ah… here’s a chance to educate:
So I bred my mare…
OMG! what a dip shit! And as hosepoor said, “asshat!” I am still laughing at that one!
Part of the problem with jumping horses very young is that it is encouraged in Europe, and here with the International Jumper Futurity and the Young Jumper Championships. The 5 year old classes start at 3’6″ at the beginning of the competition year, and mid-year go up to 4’0″. I myself have bred a Dutch WB jumper prospect, but I find it very odd that the apparent accepted custom is to push the slow-maturing Warmblood bodies so quickly into very heavy competition. I won’t be starting my prized baby under saddle until at least 3 1/2. And, as any jumper knows, to be SHOWING 4’0″, you are probably schooling 4’3″ – 4’6″ at home. They’re doing this on 5 YEAR OLDS! I would like some input from trainers who participate with the IJF and YJC on this issue, please.
ASSHAT—-> an article of clothing worn by BYB, while breeding FUGLY HORSES
Unfortunately, when it comes to those babies being broken for the track, you’re not going to find people happy to just be with their horses. Racing is a business where money talks, and though there are MANY amazing owners, trainers, grooms, breakers, etc who spend quality time with their horses, the fact remains that the babies are the stars. The biggest money and the biggest fame lies in the races as a three year old, and it’s believed very near impossible to get them started late for that sort of thing. So you have two year old and three year old babies burning up the track. Just how the business works. The biggest problem that fans (myself included) wish to work on is, actually, getting horse to run /longer/ – two years of running as babies and then getting shipped off to stud is no great fun, we’d love to see them run when their bodies are actually fully FORMED. Alas, alas….
Oh by the way, very recently a young Grand Prix jumper was being promoted as a stallion. One of his big accomplishments? HE WON HIS FIRST GRAND PRIX AS A SIX YEAR-OLD. Yes, 6. Like, 4, 5, 6.
Eeeek!!!!! Hopefully there will be something left of him to breed 5 years from now…
Then again, Curlin – one of the biggest three-year-old stars in racing today, won the Preakness, 2nd in the Belmont, 3rd in the Kentucky Derby – didn’t start racing until I think March of his 3-year-old season. Had three wins under his belt before going into the Derby and he seems to have turned out just fine. At least there’s something.
That is the bottom line in any big horse industry. MONEY. It is what governs what people will do to their horses. Unfortunately, the big money is in the futurities – racing, cutting, pleasure, you name it. To many of these people, horses are a throw-away commodity.
I have just spent WAY too much effort on a forum trying to persuade someone NOT to wreck their baby horse. Oh, it’s ok, because her daughter’s not gonna sit on her until next may, and by then she’ll be MORE than 2 years old! And the kid’s skinny – she’ll be nothing to that horse.
The effort I put into to being POLITE when trying to stop her doing that, explaining how the vertebrae are the last set of bones to fuse…wasted. All I got was a bunch of people yelling at me, telling me ‘we do it all the time’ ‘she’ll be nearly grown by then’ and ‘this is america’. Even ‘the vet examined her legs and said it was ok! What do you know?’. I don’t know why I waste my time.
Actually, at the cutting barn I board at, horses are given time to be horses. The trainer doesn’t do futurities with his horse. He bought a futurity winner, but he does the 4 year old futurities. Most his horses don’t start until 3. He won’t do much of anything with a two year old. Surprisingly, most the horses that start at 3 and 4 do better as 5 year olds and 6 year olds than the horses started a year or two earlier. He doesn’t just start cutters, he starts western horses in general, so I am talking horses that do the regional shows.
Just sold a lovely sport prospect. A 4yo gelding. Had 20 rides on him fall of his 3yo year. Another couple early summer rides his 4yo year before selling him as a ready to work prospect. Perfectly ready for the dressage career his new owner (and professional trainer) have planned for him.
Two is too young for mounting.
And there are no excuses for “working” a foal.
This is really mean to say, and I absolutely don’t approve, but maybe…
Starting horses so young means they break down sooner and get sent off to slaughter more quickly, so there’s more room for breeding more horses. After all, the resources put into a horse that lives for 6 years are a lot less than those put into a horse that lives for 26 years.
(This is a similar argument to that used in some Eastern European country — I don’t remember which — that total health care costs would be kept down if people kept smoking, because they’d die younger.)
Ann, sad but true, I think there is some truth to that and planned obsolescence has invaded the horse breeding industry.
FHD, this is a great topic. Starting slowly with a 2 year old is ok as long as it’s done with a mindful eye on the horse’s development. Youngsters under 3 should not be asked to do more than a few minutes of weight bearing work (aka “lightly backed”) as their growth plates are still open but also because their spines and surrounding supporting tissues are not equipped to handle the added stress of carrying a rider at that point. What shocks me is seeing a youngster being backed by a rider who weighs almost as much as the horse. I’ve seen it more times than I like to remember.
The hard part is convincing people to slow down the training of their babies. My husband’s friend got a BelgianX gelding that is about 2 months younger than our BelgianX. They are now both coming three. Our guy was halter broke within 2 months of us getting him (by 8 months old), lightly lunged as a yearling, and long-lined and lightly backed this year. Mind you, he’s 16.2h and 1400lbs. My hubby’s friend’s horse started dragging a tire at 6 months old, dragging a person on a drag as a yearling, and backed last year. He is now being ridden 2-3 hours at a stretch a couple times a week. He’s only 2-1/2.
Just because a youngster is big, doesn’t mean you can’t hurt them, ya know? The auctions and kill-pens are full of drafties that have been broken down by being overworked at too young an age.
Thanks again, FHD.
I just recently found this blog and have been devouring its content! Great stuff!
I wonder if anyone would like to comment on these foals
http://www.adellequine.com/Foals.htm
No, not mine. Just curious what your take would be?
MHO is that some of them appear to be average useful animals, yet others, I just don’t understand why they exist…
warmfuzzies- I don’t get it… what makes that foal a “frame overo?” It looks like a sabeeeeeeeeno to me… and there are zillions of sabeeeeeeeeeno angle arabs out there…
20K? Really? wow.
*runs away screaming*
$20k, $4500…WTF? I’ve seen fuglier, but come on.
It’s so hard to tell with the ones who are past weaning age; some of the “fuglies” seem due to just being at an awkward age. But yes, some of those babies should not have ever existed, and the prices !!!!
Speaking of young souls gone awry, there is a sad blog posted today at http://www.tbfriends.com. The man who runs this rescue is amazing. He has a continually revolving 105+ horses. I just wanted to let you folks know about this guy, if you didn’t already. Here is someone who is actually doing something to help the horses – fulgy or not – and he deserves all the support he can get. Check out his page, and shop here first for your next horse.
Huntress – go back and read up. I already quoted Joe today.
I do have mixed emotions about giving the killers a profit to get horses away from them…I prefer to be at the sale and bid directly so that they do not make any money off of me. I am glad that the horses get saved but giving them a profit just means giving them more $$ to buy horses for slaughter with. Why should Joe pay $400 when the mare’s sale price was less than half of that?
No reason that foal couldn’t be frame. It’s pretty damn good at hiding. Might actually show they’ve got the intelligence to test for frame.
Unfortunately, I can’t quite see the same intelligence in their pricing. Hey, at least they’ve gelded some. And they’re not exactly breeding horrific fuglies. I’m not gonna complain about them (yet)
Ah, well, there you go. The first I respond to a blog and I look like an ass. Of course! Yeah fugly me
The anglo-arab foal at adellequine’s site is DNA tested to be frame. The price is Canadian.
Check out this site – reasons why young horses should not be ridden early, REGARDLESS of breed, based on skeletal maturity. Great stuff.
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html
Ha ha, you don’t look like an ass, I was just pointing it out because you mentioned him and I didn’t think you’d seen the other post.
maybe america is behind the times (and the sense, logic, the bleedin’ obvious) but where i live its common knowledge racing TBs* dont work or usually live beyond their midteens. crippled with arthritis at the very least. if you want a cheap TB to event you find one that was so slow it never made it onto the actual track, or even better, one the owner forgot he had and left in the paddock where it *shockhorror* developed normally *LOL*
(* nobody breeds any OTHER kind of TB)
are there exceptions? sure! all half a dozen of them. *rolls eyes*
Well, Americans must be lagging by centuries, then. I can’t even count how many ex-racers I’ve personally known, ridden, etc., who have made fantastic hunters and jumpers into their twenties. And thats just my own limited exposure! I currently own 13 y.o. who is sound as can be, and is both a field and show hunter. And he was even a WINNER at the track! (So I guess I’m really a duped illogical American!
Of course these horses are not common; of course you’re better off with a “racetrack reject”,(and many rescues are early rejects). But just because they raced doesn’t mean they are a “cheap event horse” . I’ve known many free off-trackers that have turned into expensive champions. You just have to know what you’re looking for.
That being said, I think maybe my point was lost. The point of my last comment was something along the lines of, “before you go to Nordstrom’s, check out Value Village”. Not only may you potentially find a diamond in the rough and save some money, but you could be helping an otherwise unfortunate creature. The $15,000 long stirrup hunter will find a good home and is in no need; but, if you have the experience and help of a professional, the right $700 rescue could be just as good and your helping a soul out. Yes, it is unlikely, but it is possible.
And FHOTD, I agree with about the killer paying, and that you’re better off going to an auction. Even Joe encourages people to go to an auction or go to the track themselves before they come to him. But when you’re browsing the internet looking for your future “perfect horse”, why not stop at tbfriends.com? If you want to stop off at the fancy breeding or training stable to see what they have, why not stop at tbfriends, too?
So sorry, this line of comment is really more appropriate in the later posting.
why…oh why….oh why do people breed and then push these babies so hard so fast??? I have a lovely yearling at home right now…in pasture. He was shown at 3 months in futurity (still on the mare), then tossed to pasture until 7 months when he was weaned and gelded. Had 30 days ground work, then tossed until May. He is just growing up out with the other youngsters right now. Couple times a week comes in, gets tied, brushed, feet picked up and work on leading and manners – then back out into the field. At two I wills start him in longlines if he is mentally ready, and at three under saddle, again if mentally ready. If not…whats a year when they are so young??
I agree, those pictures are repulsive! How could anyone use them in an advertisment and think it was acceptable? Shame on the people who did that! That qualifies as abuse in my book! Heaven help those poor horses, it will be a miracle if they have a half decent working life at all. A disgusting display of horsemanship indeed!!
Are the ‘internet police’ at work
?
By the time I get to read this wonderful blog (from way ‘down under’) quite a few of the links posted come though as having been deleted – talking about some of the adverts here. OR MAYBE FHOTD is getting more exposure than is realised and people are pulling their ads because of them being posted on here. Pity they wouldn’t just stop breeding….(horses and themselves!)
I can’t believe how absloutely stupid people can be !!!
On the topic of ‘unfit mothers’, here are a few ads for babies that I have found:
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=984767
^^^Yet another jumping baby *sighs*
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1042192
^^^I have NEVER seen a baby this fat!
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=993513
^^^hmm…these guys are real smart
Horsewings-
I am afraid you have received some incorrect information in regards to the above mentioned BelgianX gelding. I’m sure it was nothing more than a misunderstanding on your part and I thankyou for your concern.
The foal in the horsetopia ad 220974 is stretching, not the best picture to use as it makes it look pretty long and out of proportion. It may in fact be a nice foal, just a bad picture.
A couple years ago, one of the pony club families (who breeds fugly minis) brought their four-week-old baby to the tri-county fair.
Tiny little baby, about the size of a cat. One of the owners thought it would be brilliant to take her through the pony trail course between classes, led on a leash attached to her tiny halter.
She did alright hopping over the ground poles and going under the arbor, though when she wasn’t being pulled along she was running around the end of her leash screaming for her mother.
Then they got to the hula hoop with streamers, and genius owner decides to put it down around her. Baby completely panics, takes off only to be snapped backward onto her back when she reached the end of the leash. Everyone standing around watching laughed and thought the whole spectacle was the cutest thing they had ever seen.
My trainer had a fit, “You can’t do this to a baby! She’s too delicate!” Yeah, everyone pretty much brushed her off. A couple years later the baby is fuglier than her mother, but that’s probably just bad breeding.
I was at a show once that had a weanling trail class. They only had one entry, and the poor foal wouldn’t step up on the bridge. They tried picking its feet up and placing them on the bridge, but that didn’t work. Of course, they couldn’t just give up and say “hey, maybe (s)he’s not ready for this yet,” so 2 or 3 people literally picked the foal up and put it down on the bridge. I hope they have enough money for a forklift for when the horse grows up.
Serendipity – it sounds like she is very lucky she did not break her back for the whole crowd to see. Ugh, people…
This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off.
I’m a die-hard defender of waiting until a horse is older and more physically (and mentally) mature before introducing them to their jobs. I break 2-3 horses to saddle every year, and I never start a horse under the age of 3 1/2. It’s lost me business, but it’s worth it to know that I’m not contributing to a situation that will cause the animal to fall apart a few years down the road. More than that, I don’t push young horses into things that they’re not ready to handle.
My own horses are 3 and 15 months. Both my horses are lovely, well put together, and athletic. However, my 3 y/o though far from fugly, is happily a GELDING, my dressage prospect, and won’t be started until 2-3 months before his 4th b-day. I didn’t even start lunging him regularly (15 min, 1-2x a week) until he made 3. Nevertheless he’s been handled extensively and has the manners to show for it. And somehow, I don’t think that his value has been in any way decreased nor his potential limited by not having been backed this spring.
This blog is … /intense/ at times, but I can honestly say that I’m glad I found it. It’s usually informational, mostly amusing, and frequently thought-provoking. =)
Good Grief, if your name isn’t Chris then I wasn’t referring to you. If it is, then I guess I have misunderstood the situation and I apologize. If you know who I am, perhaps you can email me and we’ll talk.
But just to clear the air, I personally know of more than one situation where young drafties are broke too young so I hope that no one thinks that this is anywhere near rare. It’s certainly not. The auction houses are full of drafts that have been worked too hard at too young of an age. The horse pulls are fraught with young stock being asked to drag hundreds and hundreds of pounds when they have not even finished growing yet.
Lifelong health and usability comes with proper nurturing and sensible training of the young ones. That’s why many of the Europeans typically don’t even start their youngsters until they are 4. They understand the link between healthy growth and development with longevity. I find it amazing that many western discipline babies are being asked to spin and do sliding stops at 2-3 years old. You’d think the value of the horse as breeding stock would increase if it can demonstrate endurance and long-term health, not just that it could do it as a 2 year old. Fast buck seems to win out in America, even at the expense of some otherwise very talented and wonderful horses.
Quote for the day:
The question is not, “Can they reason?” nor, “Can they talk?” but rather, “Can they suffer?” ~Jeremy Bentham
Horsewings, apology accepted
Excuse me, but I know the breeder of the chestnut filly jumping and I can assure you she doesn’t jump them more then once. Foals jump all the time in the field so what is this hurting this filly? They do this in europe too.
I also bought a 2003 filly from her and she is as sound as can be. She was also put in a chute to show how she jumped. My filly was champion at her first and second show.
This breeder breeds beautiful horses and they are worth the price. The sire is by a famous 5 star Oldenburg(Fuerst Gotthard) out of a very nice Hanoverian mare(Santa Barbara) who’s sire is an international show jumper(San Fernando).
I love your blog but you are stepping on toes here.
ntorchia, dear dear ntorchia.. Stepping on toes is what this blog is all about! Sometimes grinding the heal in, you know, with spike heals on.
I suggest to avoid feeling discomfort that you don some steel-toe shitkickers cuz you ain’t seen toe-stepping like this except maybe at a beginner’s ballroom dancing class!
It’s not necessary to jump them even once. If I’m buying a baby, a conformation shot and perhaps a video of baby trotting after momma are more than sufficient. If I can’t analyze what I’m going to buy between that, the pedigree, and information about the parents and what they have accomplished, then I am probably not someone who should consider purchasing a weanling!
Running a baby through a jumping chute has no point at all. None. It’s just flamboyant advertising done at the risk of hurting the baby. Pretty much like how having a human baby sit bareback on your loose stallion is flamboyant advertising done at the risk of hurting the human baby!
You don’t need gimmicks like that to sell a good horse. That colt IS a very nice colt. He doesn’t need that.
Horsewings: While I loved the blog, it’s getting a little too broad. I like the conformation posts and I learned a lot from them. I have never seen so many conformation no-no’s before.
But I think it’s getting away from bad breeding/comformation to an all out snark of every tiny thing that people do.
How about the blogger post on Rollkur next? Now that to me is worth the snark!
ntorchia, I would hope that a four year old is still sound! Now, when she’s 15…..
I know the breeder of the first horse, too, and while I have nothing against her personally, I have little respect for her breeding program. Her one stallion with the big bad pedigree has not done a darn thing in the show ring in his life (not even sure he is ridden) and I’m sorry, but you don’t ride the bloodlines. She sells expensive babies by this stallion who has the stuff on paper but not one bit of performance record himself. This, on top of freejumping young stock that should be doing nothing but romping in the field with mom. Personally, I would choose to take my $$ elsewhere for those reasons and more.
JMHO!