The FHOTD FAQ
Aug 04 2007
The FAQ
Q. What is the point of this blog?
A. To amuse, to entertain, to educate. Overall, to discourage irresponsible horse breeding, but I do address other topics, typically by popular request.
Q. Can I e-mail you? A. Sure. It’s resqtb@yahoo.com and I’m usually way behind reading it because I’m getting so much mail so don’t hold your breath on a response. Q. Can I send you my horse to critique? A. You can but again, I’m behind and honestly, they are piling up. I would not count on a response on that. There are tons of people equally or more qualified than I am to critique your horse. Take them to a show, go in halter/in hand, and ask the judge for feedback. Q. Are you opposed to horse breeding? A. Not at all. I fully support the breeding of horses with good conformation, good dispositions and athletic ability by breeders who are knowledgeable horsepeople well-versed in bloodlines, genetic defects, and the proper care of mare and foal including nutrition. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people breeding horses who do not meet these simple standards. Q. Why are you so mean? A. Being snarky is funny to many people and has made many comedians rich. If you think I’m mean, turn on a Sarah Silverman special sometime. (I love her, by the way) I’m not making money here, but the snark does keep people’s attention more than a boring daily lecture on conformation. If it upsets you to read, you might note that you are not in any way required to visit the blog. Look next to your head – no gun. Q. Why do you make fun of fugly geldings if the point is to criticize breeding? A. I make fun of fugly geldings because someone bred them. I give kudos to the person who recognized they should be gelded and carried that out. Q. I think it’s wrong that you take pictures of people’s horses. A. I think it’s wrong that those horses exist. Q. What should people do with fugly horses? Do you want them sent to slaughter or something? A. Of course not. I am 100% anti-slaughter and I’ve worked with many victims of abuse and neglect, both small and large animals. Fugly horses deserve a good life and proper care every bit as much as quality horses. They simply should not, under any circumstances, reproduce. Q. If we only bred really good horses, people who don’t have a lot of money would never be able to afford horses. A. Biggest load of bull crap I’ve ever heard. Even the best breeders have enough culls to keep every Pony Club and 4-H and trail rider in horses forever. Look at Secretariat. Great racehorse, gorgeous, indisputably breeding quality, but he sired a whole lot of mediocre horses. Nice minds, at least the ones I’ve met, but they didn’t cut the mustard on the track. You can breed wonderful horses to wonderful horses and still produce a fair share of mediocre horses that will have to be sold for substantially less money. Not to mention all of the fabulous horses that suffer an injury and need to retire to a lighter use home. There will never be an actual shortage of affordable horses. Q. You’re wrong about just the fugly horses going to slaughter. We rescued Blah Blah Racehorse who won 8 zillion dollars on the track from New Holland! A. There is an exception to every rule. Yes, some excellent horses take a wrong turn in life. But every time I go to an auction that has killer buyers at it, I see that the vast majority of horses going to his trailer are really horrid looking young stock (3 and under, typically barely halter broke, often without papers) or horses 15+ years old who are totally broken down and crippled, often as a result of having conformation that predisposed them to conditions like navicular disease. People like to talk about the rare “celebrity†rescue horses because it results in more attention from the public and more donations for the rescue. I’m not begrudging the rescues this – it’s a good fundraising tactic. Still, it doesn’t mean that your typical horse heading off to become a steak is a stakes winner. Most of them are sad little horses who have had sad little lives full of poor care, irresponsible ownership, and in some cases, serious physical deformities. Q. I’d like to see a picture of you! You’re probably fugly! A. And I’ll put that up just as soon as I start criticizing how human beings look. If you want to criticize horses I’ve owned or own, I already did that post – July 4, 2007. Much of what I own is fugly. Nothing I own is pregnant. Q. You just don’t like my breed! A. I try to balance pictures of horses I don’t like with horses I do like of the same breed. And just because I don’t personally care for a breed doesn’t mean I don’t know what a good one looks like. If it’s a breed I truly do not know anything about – I don’t critique it unless it’s got some really obvious flaw that would be a problem in anything that whinnies. Q. Who the hell are you that you think you can judge everybody? A. I’m just another citizen of the Land of the Free, where we are all free to judge anybody we like. You can start your own blog and criticize me, if you’d like. Blogger is free to use and simple to set up! And yeah, I know I suck about formatting posts…I just haven’t had time to figure out why the HTML on this thing is so wacky. Q. You’re not very Christian! A. You’re right. Q. You’re just some amateur with a bad attitude! A. In this context, I’m just another horseperson with an opinion. If you disagree, feel free to comment. I am not blocking anybody from commenting, nor do I delete comments. Q. I figured out who you are! A. Did you want a cookie? Here’s how this is going to work: If someone does identify me accurately (and no, I am not the girl who just bought the Appaloosa from someone and claimed to be the Fugly horse blogger. Although I find that story positively hilarious, I last purchased an Appaloosa around 1993), I will put up my regular e-mail address and a paypal link and everybody who likes this blog can send me money to continue my horse rescue efforts. Cool, huh? Q. It’s not fair to criticize so-and-so for sending their horse to auction. Not everybody is rich like I am sure YOU are, they had no choice! A. I’m not rich but I do have enough money management skills to ensure that I don’t have to send horses to auction, because, shazam, fall came and what do you know, hay costs money! Sure, hay has gone up. Gasoline has gone up too, do you use that as an excuse not to go to work? Q. How would you feel if a horse didn’t get sold as a result of your blog! A. Ha ha, first of all I’m not so egotistical as to think the whole equestrian world reads my blog and takes it as gospel – but I’m flattered you think I have that kind of power. Second of all, if someone walks away from a horse featured here and instead rewards a breeder who has done their homework and bred a higher quality horse? I’m thrilled. Q. How dare you say that about my horse? I’m going to sue you! A. Whatever floats your boat. You may wish to speak to an attorney about whether or not you have a case. Two key concepts – “Fair use†and the fact that you have the right to respond to your heart’s content in the same public forum. As I said, I do not censor comments. Come on over and call me every name in the book and defend the honor of your Andafriesanwalker if it makes you happy. Finally, to the lady who asserted that I was to blame for the entire world becoming more looks-ist or something, you are working too hard on your thesis. Step away from the computer. Go get a beer. You’ll feel better. This person is looking for someone to train her Thoroughbreds for the track. She wants someone to come and ride 3 colts 3x/week for $300 a month. Look, cheap miserable bitch. Stop worrying about training and sell those poor things to someone who can afford to feed them. This colt looks like death warmed over. Of course you can sit on him bareback, you moron – he doesn’t have the strength to protest!
OK, I just can’t resist posting a few more of the Cream of Craigslist. Sweet Jesus, would you post this picture? 
The text of this ad speaks for itself:
I have 5 horses for trade
MORGAN MARE 16 YRS BROKE
ARAB GELDING 14 YRS BROKE
THOROUGHBRED GELDING 14 YRS BROKE
KIGER MUSTANG MARE 3 NOT BROKE AT ALL
QUARTER HORSE MARE 3 NOT BROKE AT ALL
all broke horses have not Benn rode for at least 2 years looking for a nice 21-27 foot boat and trailer can be a fixer upper but depends on the make and how much needs done on it or ford f-250/f-350 truck or????????????
*sigh*
85 comments to “The FHOTD FAQ”
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You realize, I’m sure, that the majority of the whiners, “IWillSueYou’s”, and MoralsPolice will not read this FAQ – and if they do, they won’t comprehend it.
But I applaud the effort.
OMG, the pasterns of the anorexic looking horse in pic #1 won’t hold up for racing…even I can see that. What an ignorant moron that gal is.
gawd that poor thoroughbred..looks like a bag of bones..good grief..if she has enough money to pay for training she has enough to give that horse or horses a few more scoops of feed..
Holding up Bic lighter.
Ms. Fugly is my new heroine..
Oh dear lord. I love you! Marry me?
hah.. sike. not so much.. but I do look forward to your blog everyday to give me a nice laugh.
keep it up!
And this one got me:
Q. I think it’s wrong that you take pictures of people’s horses.
A. I think it’s wrong that those horses exist.
haha!
I’ll never understand why people want to trade horses for trucks/boats/atvs/etc instead of selling the horses and using that money to buy their precious vehicles. Do they not realize how much this limits them on potential buyers (not to mention the quality of the vehicle they may be getting?) Instead, their poor horses sit there for another year while people look at the ad and say “Oh, I could get that horse… oooh wait, I don’t have a/don’t want to get rid of my F-250, too bad. Next ad.” Either that or some hick sees the ad and realizes that they can trade their kids old four-wheeler in on a pony, that’ll make the kids real happy! And then the pony will eventually get traded for some other form of entertainment for the kids when they get tired of it too.
The only thing those kind of ads say to me “I put my animals on the same level as I do my truck – fill ‘er up with gas and give ‘er an oil change every 3,000 miles, and everything’s fine.”
Sorry, you’ve got that way wrong, del13, those folks ain’t gonna mess with changin’ the oil every 3k miles
I just found your blog about a week ago. I have shared it with everyone I know and they all appreciate what you have to say. We may not always agree but I do like to hear another view point. Like you said, this is the land of the free. Ive done my time defending it, and believe in free speach. I look forward to many more of your posts! By the way im going to APHA Convention this year to lobby for rights of Solid Paint horses. Gasp the directors there think if Solids has equal rights it would push down the price of colored stock! God forbid the breeders should look at conformation and brain instead of color!
I love this blog. I share it with anyone who owns horses. I think you should look at the racing industry breeders. I have one next door to me, that thinks mares are just a vessel to hold sperm. He has some of the most fugly and down-right crippled mares I have ever seen. He can spout out all kind of crap about there bloodlines though.
Lynda – good for you. One of the most abused equines on earth is the APHA foal unfortunate enough to be born solid colored. It has improved a lot from the early 90s when every fall auction brought 20 or so hapless weanlings going off to slaughter for being the wrong color, but it’s still problematic. I don’t know exactly what the APHA’s policies are right now on these horses showing, so please feel free to fill us all in.
The owners and breeders of the solid Paints are the ones who devalue them. If those horses were of good quality and have good conformation, their value would be no different than their colored counterparts. The seller of a solid is the one who goes, “ah shit” and prices it accordingly.
If the solid Paints were to be placed on an equal level with the colored Paints (for showing), there would be no incentive to breed colored horses. They might as well breed Quarter Horses.
The APHA should be responsible for educating its members on the genetics of color AND conformation. It is not their job to help promote the solid Paint horses. That is up to the breeders and owners of those horses. APHA has done their part by offering classes for the solid Paints.
Ever gone to any local jackpots or speed event fun shows? Alot of the horses look like that TB in the picture. Ridden to death and looking near like it.
Have you ever tried to critique gaited horses? I sent you an email on awkward situation I had with a breeder about judging confo and ridability, but I’m not sure what to think.
lynda, you are right about conformation and disposition being number one selection criteria. That is true for ANY breed. But APHA is a COLOR breed association (and bloodline, too). The goal should be to breed a quality COLORED horse. This does not mean to ignore conformation, but we all know many do. A top quality solid Paint is just as valuable to a breeding program as a colored horse. Personally, I can’t see APHA promoting solid colored horses. They do not represent APHA and what they are. But they DO have value as breeding stock, if they are quality. If they are NOT quality, well, what’s the point? APHA HAS provided all the rights to solid Paints, as in BREEDING RIGHTS, SHOWING RIGHTS, and being full-fledged REGISTERED APHA horses. Letting them show WITH the colored horses? Big mistake, which would be the downfall of APHA. One only need to look no further than the Appaloosa Horse Club to see what can happen if they did that. “Devalued” would be an understatement.
I wont go into the whole Colored Paints vs Solid Paints with you Pleni. Im sure Ive gone down this road with you before on breedingstocksneedsrights@yahoogroups.com I do NOT think it will devalue the colored horse and what happened with ApHC in the 80′s is like comparing apples to oranges. ApHC is now showing solids with colored appies. I havent heard boo about how that is affecting them negatively.
When APHA made it a one paint parent rule it made it a breed registry. I needs to live up to that or become an offshoot of Pinto. Pinto gives me more alternatives than APHA does and I own three APHA horses. Two are Solids, with one of the solids holding AQHA papers as well. The third is a RR Overo. All three will die as virgins. If I want a baby I’l buy one, like Ive already done. Of the three the two solids are way above the RR mare I own as far as conformation. Those two, one is already my dressage mare the other will be as well when she’s broke. My rr will just be a trail horse.
The win-win situation for everyone would be one registry, American Stock Horse. With a colored division and solid division. A two inch white spot does not make a colored horse!
“The owners and breeders of the solid Paints are the ones who devalue them. If those horses were of good quality and have good conformation, their value would be no different than their colored counterparts. The seller of a solid is the one who goes, “ah shit” and prices it accordingly.
If the solid Paints were to be placed on an equal level with the colored Paints (for showing), there would be no incentive to breed colored horses. They might as well breed Quarter Horses.
The APHA should be responsible for educating its members on the genetics of color AND conformation. It is not their job to help promote the solid Paint horses. That is up to the breeders and owners of those horses. APHA has done their part by offering classes for the solid Paints.”
I own a solid bred. She is the best horse we have ever known and will do anything for you. She’s a great kids horse, but can show with the best of ‘em in the adult classes. And yeah, technically she has a spot that would qualify her regular registry, but by the time it was big enough to qualify her, it would have cost a lot to change her papers over.
Solid breds (especially in halter) are becoming more sought-after because the classes used to be an easy way to get “World Champion Sire” slapped on their horse. Nowadays, it is actually getting more competitive. APHA offers incentives for solid breds – IPHC offers free classes for them for example. More classes have been added at World Show for them, too.
Solid breds are not a dime a dozen anymore – especially with all of this double registry crap that is going on between the two. And APHA is NOT only a color registry. PHBA and Pinto are. Paints are a breed. yes, paints have color, but they are their own BREED. “Paint” isn’t a color. Sorry, just a pet peeve. They are a colored breed, but not a registry just because of color.
Yes, color is the goal. I am happy to have a 50/50 yearling. He’s gorgeous, but I wouldn’t have minded a solid bred because I could still show it.
I don’t think we want to go in the way of the appy horses.
That’s just ASKING for trouble, like the above people said. I do, however, thing their should be solid bred classes to help increase the worth of these horses.
Oh gods, did someone actually try to criticize you by saying you weren’t very Xtian?
*snerk*
BTW… I don’t “thing” anything, but I THINK lots of things! LOL. Just wanted to correct that.
lynda, I’ve never been on that group. Maybe you’ve heard it all before? I don’t know how many times I need to say this to the solid admirers: If your solid horse was worth a darn, you wouldn’t worry about showing them with the colored horses. You would be secure in knowing that your solid horse was a quality horse, and who cares what everyone else thinks? And, speaking of what everyone else thinks, me thinks many owners of solid Paints have sour grapes. They got beat by the good Quarter Horse cropouts and didn’t like it, so they passed the One Paint Parent rule. Real nice. Just one more notch in the coffin of APHA. Next, you won’t want any Quarter Horse or Thoroughbred parents of Paint foals. Just close the registry to everything but Paint bloodlines only, and see what happens. Shit bred to shit equals shit. You will find that many will leave APHA and just go to Pinto because they have no way to improve the breed at APHA. Personally, I LOVE a solid Paint. IF IT’S QUALITY. It would be no different than a Quarter Horse or a TB. If it’s NOT a quality animal, then it’s a CULL to a breeder like any other poor quality animal.
You at your best
lynda said I do NOT think it will devalue the colored horse and what happened with ApHC in the 80′s is like comparing apples to oranges. ApHC is now showing solids with colored appies. I havent heard boo about how that is affecting them negatively.
I never said that showing Solids withe the RR would devalue the colored horses. I said it would REMOVE THE INCENTIVE to breed for a colored horse. I have always maintained that a quality horse is a quality horse, no matter if it has color or not. You people seem to think that your Solid Paint somehow has less value because it’s not colored. That lack of faith transfers to any potential buyer. You are wrong and are the ones who are devaluing your Solid Paints. I am all for showing Solid Paints. In Solid classes. The more, the better. If a Solid Paint is of breeding quality, it has every right to be used in a breeding program that breeds quality horses. I don’t see a problem with that. If you are not a breeder, then lobby for more classes for your Solid Paints. But don’t lobby for showing them with the RR. APHA has NOT YET made their registry Paint to Paint only. If and when that happens, then yes, RR with the Solids would be a logical next step in that progression (or downfall of APHA, as I believe). As for the Appys? The bottom fell out of that market several years ago.
Well done FHOTD! Unfortunately most folks making comments such as these were born without a sense of humor, poor bastards, and most likely have a knocked up fugly mare in their barn.
Keep on keepin’ on!
God for a second there I thought that TB was a stick pony…..
Thank you for your post today! So many of those questions come up time and again…hopefully this will curb them and the real discussions can continue. I hate those trade x number of horses for x thing…or trade 4 for 1 deals…not many people are looking for that sort of deal! These people would be better off listing them for sale seperately, then pooling the money together to buy what they want.
hey i love critiquing horses and i am soooooo LOVING your blog. I am in school for equestrian science and would LOVE to shadow your blog…. “Copy you” if you will LOL
and i was wondering if that would be OK with you?
O lord, I wish that we could have a “breed standard” for the human race… maybe we should be able to weed out the “fugly ones” and not allow them to breed! Maybe we could start breeding common sence into people?? What do you think?
Sorry Colorisnteverything PHBA is not anything like Pinto. Pinto will register ANYTHING spotted whether it has a pedigree or not. PHBA requires a horse be registered with an approved breed and have breed association papers. You cannot take any palomino colored horse and register it PHBA like you can with a pinto.
I totally disagree with what plenipotentiary says.. I happen to OWN a SOLID COLOR PAINT. It’s sort of like the AKC registration of puppies… (which I am a responsible breeder of chocolate hunting labs) If both parents of the APHA are registered APHA, why deny that foal (no matter the flipping color) the rights to the registration? It’s pretty sad that in the world today that we have to fight for our animals rights as well as the human race… we’ve really got some real winners out there….
APHA has NOT denied solid foals registration rights. If they have the bloodline requirements and have one or both Paint parents, they get their papers, and have full breeding rights, without restrictions.
CRAZY4PONIES, what event do you show in?
But go to a show and see how much promotion the clubs do for solids…. If you want points on a solid go to Ohio. They had over 500 solid entries last year… why…cause they offered one for one classes. If there was a class in RR then there was a class for Solids. They got sponsors and people came from all over to the show. They have been extremely successful at getting solids to show up. Has APHA even acknowledged how well Ohio has done… NOPE! Seen a write up in the APHA rag?? NOPE! I went to the workshop in 2006. Was told by a club president/Halter breeder he runs those solids off their momma’s as fast as he can and runs them thru auction and gets 150 a head….. hmm guess they end up at the slaughter house… why cause they dont have a friggin 2 inch white spot.
While at the workshop one of the directors complained about the color classes… He had some wonderfully colored horse. What did the judge pin… a minimal white. Guess APHA needs to train its Judges. Breeders dont tell people buying a solid that they cant show against RR and the classes are very limited. http://www.solidpaintbred.com sponsored classes again this year at world show. When APHA threatened to never hold a trail class again people jumped up and entered horses. All it takes for APHA to remove a class from solids is to offer it one year. If they dont get 7 horses they say they wont offer the class again. Gee sounds really good huh {rolling my eyes} It takes time to train a horse for a class that you find out a couple of months before hand that is going to be offered at world.
I’l stick with my dressage world… the judges dont care what color my mares are. For all they care it could be pink with purple polkadots on em. They dont care. A good horse is never a bad color… oh wait.. only in APHA! By the way look at the statistics… APHA is already on its way out!
Then lynda, what is your problem with APHA? You don’t need papers to show USDF. And if you don’t breed, then lobby for more classes for your Solid Paints! But don’t lobby to restrict the options and incentives that breeders have because you wanna show with the RRs. The people I know who have seriously competitive Paints don’t show APHA as much as they do with the NRHA, NCHA, etc. They don’t want the ribbons. They want the money! So quit trying to get APHA to cater to you. You don’t even like APHA! Go create some value for your HORSE, regardless of its status with APHA.
umm… lynda, get off your hight horse puh-leeze. I should remind you that no discipline is perfect. And yeah, there aren’t any wrong colors, just wrong breeds.
No one in my area has ever just “thrown away” solid breds. My horse was one of the most sought-after horses in the county and when her owner (my trainer) offered her for sale, he had people dying to own her. Yeah, she was sold to me because we were close to him and his family and I had showed her for two years for them already.
Yeah, that’s my solid bred.
“Shit bred to shit equals shit. You will find that many will leave APHA and just go to Pinto because they have no way to improve the breed at APHA.”
So now my paint horse is a piece of shit as are all paints? Actually, her mother was a QH and her father was all QH. THe only reason HE was a paint was the Supreme Champion Our Sir Prize who managed to be a cropout.
So, yeah. Paints are just QH’s and TB’s basically with some color. I don’t see how not allowing cropouts anymore changes the breed all that much. TBXTB crosses aren’t allowed to be registered in AQHA either as Paint X Paint crosses aren’t. I don’t see the difference. I really find it offensive that you would say breeding two qualified, proven paints together is shit breeding shit. I am VERY proud of my two paints and don’t think either of them is shitty. They aren’t perfect – no horse is, but they are both well-mannered and conformed horses.
Why is it that people insist on papers in the first place? I mean, the horse could be signed up with the Hybrid Mongolian Cluster-Fucked Horse Association as long as it’s “registered” and has some faggy multi-word bullshit name like “Lil Special Brown King Leo Wimpy Shit Ball” to make it sound more impressive.
My next question… why do people place so high an emphasis on SHOWING? Who the fuck cares how pretty you look when you ride? Why the hell do I have to wear that fucking HOT blazer on a 90 degree summer fucking day to impress some ASSHOLE that may or may not even RIDE (aka the judge)? Why does my horse have to hang his head halfway between his chest and the ground to please YOU? I personally want to ENJOY my horses, which means spending time with them, grooming them, bombing around on the trails, riding with friends at the beach, etc. I have NEVER been to a show where I saw more than 4 people look like they were having ANY fun. Most people get stressed out, they don’t have fun, and their horses, I’m willing to bet, would have picked munching the daisies over that bullshit.
This leads me to a rather interesting sojourn into the psyches of horse owners. If you show, why do you show? If you don’t, why not? Food for thought.
re: not very Christian
I believe in freedom of religion, freedom of speech and thou shalt not kill.
… as long as you don’t worship a different imaginary person in the sky than I do. LOL (George Carlin)
Love the BLOG = keep it up!
I can understand why some people don’t like showing. I have had my share of issues with different clubs, but I still like showing. Because of school, I haven’t been able to show, but when I am done, I will be showing again at some point. I like the thrill of it and usually have fun. It gives me pointers when I talk to judges and see what is out there to do better for myself. How can you better your string of horses if you can’t even size up the compeition? I mean, some people breed for their own personal horse needs, which is fine, but I think it is good to see what is out there and see where the breed is going. From there, you can either further it in that direction or change it.
I love George Carlin. He is like a god to me.
I show because I’m competitive. That’s about it. I like to win, and while obviously sometimes there is losing involved, and making an ass of yourself, it’s still a blast when you win! And when you do make an ass of yourself, it makes for great stories you can tell over margaritas with your horsey friends for the rest of your life. So either way you win!
It is particularly fun to win with a horse that someone else threw away or couldn’t get along with. I am sure I am not alone in enjoying the hell out of that. Especially when you beat them with the horse they couldn’t get along with, that they said was a piece of shit. And they are on the horse they replaced him with, who cost 3 times as much. Good times!
I hate show clothes, I’m sure everybody does. Nobody wakes up on a summer morning wishing they could slip into a hot jacket and a pair of pants that won’t stay up in the crotch. Or for western showing, those chaps just feel lovely on a 90 degree day!
I’ll take this Blog a lot more seriously once she goes after the overblown halter horses. I have the feeling that she might only be willing to ostracize the ignorant illiterate poor. I mean up next to them anyone can seem brilliant. But most of these grotesque halter horses are owned by rich educated egomaniacs. She may not be up to taking on someone her own size, so to speak.
Color –
I would agree with you if I was a BREEDER. I am a rescuer. Therefore I intensely dislike people who breed for any reason other than to improve their breed, which is to say, I intensely dislike MOST breeders. Most breeders are out there to make a buck, lets face it. So few of those meatsticks GET IT! The “breeding for ones own use” is bullshit. You know it and I know it. I have two of them here at my rescue, two Fugly horses that were bred ostensibly for their shitforbrain owners’ “personal use” then decided that they were too expensive to keep after all. One of them actually said, “my gosh, I didn’t realize that they live to be 30? Who knew?” That was, of course, after she had bred the STB mare to a fucking mustang. Some people make blood shoot from my eyes!
I tell ya, I gave up showing when the judge of a halter class that I entered asked me if my horse was a QH. I mean, this horse is SO QH, she could be on a fucking poster, right? I thought, you are way too stupid to be a judge, my 6 year old knows more about horses than you. Then said judge placed a very poorly put together draft cross something or fucking other over my QH because she broke her trot on the pattern. Helloooo… HALTER class here, lady. Hellooooo… unsound/poorly conformed mutt sporting a NYLON halter pins ahead of a VERY QH because she broke her trot? WTF ever!
Molly, go back a bit. I did take on an overblown, crippled looking big money halter horse. As a matter of fact, I compared him to an okapi.
I am not afraid of anyone. I do not make my primary living off the horse industry at this point in time.
I said, “shit bred to shit equals shit.” And I meant it. You must not know a whole lot about breeding and the history of APHA and the horses and bloodlines behind it. How old is APHA? About 47 years old? Do you think that is long enough to build the gene pool and close the books to the ones who made it what it is today so far? I said that these idiotic moves on the part of Solid Paint people, which would lead toward a Paint to Paint registry only, WOULD create shit to shit. You have to be smart enough to understand the context that was written in. Almost ALL of the APHA Supreme Champions were cropout Quarter Horses. They are NOT from Paint to Paint breeding, and the quality Paints usually have one Quarter Horse or TB parent. All you Solid people who want to show WITH the RR do not know what you are doing to the breed. You are taking away the incentive for Paint BREEDERS to breed colored horses. Most of you don’t even breed. You show. With mares and geldings. Which is fine. But lobby APHA for more Solid Paint classes. You don’t need equal status with the RR at the shows. You have everything else. The right to register, the right to breed, and the right to show. Hell, even some shows offer FREE classes for you! I don’t see any people with RR’s bitching about it and wanting free entry fees!
It seems I remember a moron named Cathy H., who wouldn’t even REGISTER her solid Paint with APHA because she thought it would “devalue” her solid but eligible Quarter Horse in the eyes of the AQHA people. That’s pretty dumb, unless the horse was a piece of shit in the first place. If that horse was a quality animal, she just denied it an eventual place in a Paint breeder’s program, because it certainly would quality as a “one Paint parent” under that new rule, and it could have been bred to a Quarter Horse for a REGISTERABLE Paint foal. What an idiot, who did nothing but devalue her OWN horse. Blaming APHA is stupid. They have provided you the venue, the registration status, the breeding rights, and you want more than that, all at the expense of the people who are breeding good APHA colored horses.
lynda said “I’l stick with my dressage world… the judges dont care what color my mares are. For all they care it could be pink with purple polkadots on em. They dont care. A good horse is never a bad color… oh wait.. only in APHA! By the way look at the statistics… APHA is already on its way out!”
Then why go to the APHA convention and lobby to show your Solids with the RR’s? If you can’t support APHA, and only want to lobby for something that will benefit YOU, then don’t show APHA and go do dressage! You are a sore loser.
Okay, umm… but those supreme champions are BRED into many of the paints of TODAY. So, what you are saying makes not sense. If cropout paints are bred in, then the horses they bred shouldn’t be SHIT.
I never wanted to show with RR. Can you at least READ my comments before bitching about me being too incoherent to understand them. The AQHA hasn’t been around for 200 years or anything. Oh wait, stock breeds are a far more recent devlopment than say the JC. Hmm… well, then I guess even QH’s are crap according to you?
And I do breed. My mare is bred right now to my trainer’s previous stallion. She’s due to foal next year and yeah, the foal will be marketable and a great horse – just like my yearling
No I am not a breeder by any stretch of the imagination.
“Then said judge placed a very poorly put together draft cross something or fucking other over my QH because she broke her trot on the pattern. Helloooo… HALTER class here, lady. Hellooooo… unsound/poorly conformed mutt sporting a NYLON halter pins ahead of a VERY QH because she broke her trot? WTF ever!”
First of all, most local level shows have shitty judges. I quit doing them as “schoolers” because the judges were idiotic and I was sick of seeing people beat their horses into subimission. I go to better than just entry level shows when I go. Secondly, there is NO pattern in halter. If this is a SHOWMANSHIP class, then breaking the trot is worse. It’s about if the horse is clean, neat, and able to execute the pattern, but is mainly based on how the HANDLER can execute the pattern. Conformation has nothing to do with the class. If you can notice the difference between halter and showmanship (and maybe your club has some weird as halter competition, idk) you shouldn’t preach about how bad horse shows are. if you don’t know what it is about, it is hard to judge others and be so very critical of them. Showing is such a broad category. And showing can be about getting the breed to a better place. What happens in the showring DOES change the breed.
plenipotentiary, I totally agree with you on that count. If you hate the breed so much, why bother with it?
COLORISNTEVERYTHING, so ok, all Paints are quality that have a Supreme Champion in their pedigree? How stupid is that? Since you say you aren’t a “breeder”, why don’t you leave breed improvement up to the responsible breeders, where it belongs? It doesn’t sound like you have the knowledge to breed, or know what a quality horse is, or you would understand what I wrote about the Paint to Paint bloodlines. I like what someone else said on this blog about breeding for the IMPROVEMENT of the breed. That is what the definition of a true breeder is, not someone breeding just because they can.
Who said I hated the breed? Have you ever heard of someone seeing a void and wanting to fill that void? I happen to love colored horses (Paints), but I also love a truly quality horse, and those two sometimes don’t meet within APHA. Like Ms. Fugly said, there are exceptions to every rule, and those are not what I’m talking about.
I’m not breeding just to breed, never have. In fact, I know a whole hell of a lot about pedigrees and breeding. My trainer is also a breeder and for quite some time was mainly a breeder and just trained a couple horses on the side. He has realized he doesn’t have the time for it anymore and has stopped breeding. He understands what it takes to better the breed. My mare was bred to pay her board. He bred her himself and adores her. She’s one of the nicest horses around and he asked me if he could breed her and for the year she carried my colt, she got free board. He technically owns my yearling, but I tool around with him and help him out when I can.
The guy has been breeding for 40 years. Everything about pedigrees that I know was brought out of watching him research lines. He is a great man and I really admire him. I am a college student and have no time to breed. In fact, my mare wasn’t supposed to be bred this year. She’s getting older and our vet said she wasn’t breedable without help most likely. She was pastured with the stud and his herd this year (his bred mares) and got bred. We decided if it happened, it happened if it didn’t it didn’t. We didn’t feel the need to hock her up on Regumate for one last year.
She’s bred and once again I am getting my board paid off. She has a good colt on the ground and I have no doubt this foal will be just as nice. He wants to bring the breed back to versatility – back to the Doc Bar and Poco lines.
I am a college student and not a breeder. I know that I am not and do not INTEND to breed. I am not a BYB and never intend to be one. I don’t have the time and resources to stand a stud and buy mares and I don’t want to . However, I see rescue cases and it pisses me off because these horses shouldn’t have been bred and are only going to stand around on their crippled legs at a rescue all their lives.
I know a HELL of a lot about bloodlines, so don’t you start in on me. Why are you super bitch today? What died up your ass?
And yeah, I never SAID that anything that has a supreme champion in there is great. If it is 4 gens back, that’s insanely stupid. I know people who would assume that, but they are idiots. I just see that horses who have evolved from these lines are more likely to keep being proven. Great doesn’t breed shit (at least not on purpose if that makes sense). I don’t favor making it to paint parents… at all. That’s stupid and it prevents new lines from coming in. But, you wouldn’t have known that because you just assumed. You know what people say about assumption?
And yeah, I would like to know why you think you are the supreme breeder of all breeders.
And I meant to say “two” not “to”. Sorry for sounding like an idiot. I was up early today and it is late.
You don’t sound like an idiot. You’re just young. If you stay involved with Paints for many years to come, you will see that what I said is correct. I’m no “supreme breeder of all breeders” any more than you are a pedigree expert.
Never said I was an expert, but I am no idiot. I appreciate that you now see this. I think we both have the same goal in mind: to make paints a better breed.
And I am more than willing to work towards that. And while our ideals may be different, I agree with the whole RR debate. I am perfectly happy in my breeding stock classes. And naturally, they won’t be as competitive because the horses just don’t show up. It’s going to take time. It’s already beginning to catch on, but it will take time for people to take showing solids seriously before they will be willing to put the money in needed to advance them.
And I don’t think having two paint parents is a problem if you like it that way, but bringing in good QH and TB blood is important for variation.
Yeah, I am green, but my heart was stolen by a paint at nine, so I can’t be helped
hurrah! I love this blog!
Hope you dont mind FHD… I started a horse selection blog. I figured there are quite a few ppl I have seen post on your blog that have inquired about one, so I decided to make one. For anyone interested, here is the link. http://horseselection.blogspot.com/ Its sort of along the same lines as FHD’s blog, but without the controversy… lol NOT That I mind the controvery here, but some people have asked for more info about horse conformation. Anyway, please feel free to take a look and tell me what you think.
OK a few basics.
It is PATTERN- PATTERN NOT COLOUR!!!!
You cannot even get that bit right!!
The so called “Solids” you are all prattling on about, nine times out of ten, are actually minimally marked pintos- hence the so called “Crop outs”
Crop outs do not exist- they are genetically impossible.
Solid X Solid = Solid it cannot = anything else.
Minimal X Solid/Minimal/Pinto can = anything at all but it sure as hell is not a “crop out”
See this is the basis of all the problems in this “breed”
You do not know even the most basic things about breeding PATTERN and you are all, the registry as well (how we do laugh about the ridiculous statements the APHA come up with!!) and yet you think you are qualified to breed for the pattern and to sling out animals that could very well continue to breed the pattern all on their own.
The lot of you need to go back to school and learn a few very basic facts about PATTERN breeding and it’s inheritance and then you might be qualified to speak about it!!
I saw that TB advertised for sale. Same pic was used. That poor baby is only 1 yr and 3 mos old. “The kids have been riding him around the yard.”
KIRRI, “Solid” is what APHA calls them, as in “Solid Paint Bred”, replacing the old description of “Breeding Stock”. Yes, many “solids” can produce color when bred to other “solids”, except for Tobianos (in most cases of which I am not going to go into detail here. Most would not “get it”). We didn’t specify Overo or Tobiano when referring to “solids”. “Cropout” is another word used to describe a horse receiving pattern from two generally “solid” horses, such as two AQHA horses. I know that one or both of those AQHA horses in that instance carried Overo. So don’t go calling anyone ignorant. You never know who you are talking to.
First I have to say how much I love this blog. I wanted to comment on the whole showing topic as I too am very competitive and love to kick some ass in the showring. I did start showing at the local fair grounds to the $50 judges. I enjoy the whole getting stressed out thing at shows. I ride to improve myself and my horse and I enjoy riding with goals. I don’t see a point in bopping around on the trails, I can bond just as well with my horse working on his performance under saddle and on the ground for shows. Not all horses are made for the showring not only physically, but mentally. You CANNOT just sit on a horse and look pretty and win. It is whole hell of a lot more work than that. You have to know HOW to ride to make it appear you are just sitting there. People who show in the stockbreed pleasure classes spend months getting ready to show the circuit shows! Its also not about how low I can get my horses head! If you read some of the breed association rules they are DQ’ing over really low heads and you are seeing that in some of the more competitive open shows. Horses competing at the higher level shows are ATHLETES and are judged on quality of movement, strength, and conformation. I think people who show get a bad rep for being stuck up rich assholes when for most people who show it is not the case.
I have some of the best times at a horse show, you can meet some of the nicest people. Showing is definitely a choice and is not for everyone.
Many people who like to put down the ones who show usually are ones who CAN’T show, or don’t have the quality of horse to show. Simple as that.
I enjoy showing my horse. I also enjoy hacking around my pastures at sunset and ambling through a forested trail on a hot summer day, savoring the coolness. I enjoy just hanging out with my horse, listening to him chew his hay.
So, whatever your horse thing is -Great. Don’t put people down because the way the enjoy their horses is different from they way you enjoy your horse – Unless the way they derive pleasure is cruel, neglectful or stupid.
To each his own – tally ho or happy trails!
Yikes – We should take up a collection to get that colt. 15 months and she’s riding him. Moron. What did she want for him?
There was a study done by a university about solid Overo’s. That if the horse had any white what so ever it was a minimally marked overo. If a Tobi x Tobi breeding creates a solid tobi with no white at all its a slipped tobi which means it does not possess the tobi gene.
Pleni I happen to know Cathy H. I agree with her decision. I almost didnt transfer the papers on my yearling who is double registered QH and Paint. I only did it because I figured someday maybe I’d want them. I am only interested in her QH papers.
As far as going to the convention I’d like to see APHA succeed. However demographics and times have changed. Its time for them to think about change or they too will be all but a footnote in history. I dont show APHA because the shows are too far away and Im not going to go to show in one class. With the price of gas and the amount of time and training.. its not worth it to me. If I lived closer to Ohio maybe I’d go there but its 2 days away. A little too far for me to go for a weekend. I have a regional club in APHA, not a state one. All the shows are south of me and way too much to transport to.
LYNDA said “There was a study done by a university about solid Overo’s. That if the horse had any white what so ever it was a minimally marked overo. If a Tobi x Tobi breeding creates a solid tobi with no white at all its a slipped tobi which means it does not possess the tobi gene.”
You are so full of crap it isn’t funny. First of all, “Overo’s” WHAT? Secondly, white stockings and blazes do not constitute Overo genetics. Thirdly, Tobiano to Tobiano that creates a solid isn’t called a “slipped tobi”. What some refer to as a “slipped Tobiano” or a Crypto Tobiano is a Tobiano (even if it has only one Tobiano parent) that exhibits Tobiano pattern, but not enough to quality for RR at APHA. They still have Tobiano genetics and can pass them on. You might want to get your facts straight before spouting off about Paints.
Yeah. Solid horses that were from Tobi X Tobi are not going to carry genes. The gene doesn’t go on from that
Even one tobi parent will have the same effect if the color is nill- not minimal (socks, etc.), but NILL. Sabinos and frame overos can carry these genes and exhibit not at all or very minimally. My mare carries a sabino gene and it is exhibited in even her tobi babies. The can be genetically see nas tobino (tob X sabino), but aren’t registered as anything but tobis because the registry will register the main pattern and technically, my baby is mainly a tobi.
Certain genes can look “hidden”. In my mare’s case, she exhibits belly spots, but until she was older, she wasn’t able to be registered RR, so she is a breeding stock because we don’t care either way.
The APHA needs to better educate its people because they aren’t doing a great job with genetics. The only reason I know a little bit about genetics is because I read up on it on the internet.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t care WHO I call ignorant.
You call it colour when it is pattern??
You are ignorant.
You think two minimal Tobianos can’t produce Pattern??
You’re ignorant.
You want to call it solid when it is minimal Pinto??
You’re ignorant!!
Want I should go on, I can, all day.
The Registry is ignorant for not waking up and realising it has now entered the 21st Century.
The people that breed the horses are ignorant because they do not have any apparent desire to learn the correct terms.
I don’t care what “you” call it, it is WRONG and using incorrect terms is either laziness or ignorance so get with the programme and start learning the right terms.
I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of every single registry thinking it can come up with descriptive terms for colours and patterns and it is OK- it is not OK.
OK??
And where did this idea about Tobiano having rules all it’s own come from???
That is actually a new one to me- absolutely NO genetic grounding of course- I expect it is one of those things that “everybody” knows??
Guess what??
It’s WRONG!!!
I have owned and loved several “Solid Paint Bred’ aka Breeding stock horses. I am torn between the whole equal rights controversy. On one hand, I feel that since APHA is primarily a color breed, that people should not be encouraged to produce more unpatterned/solid horses.
On the other hand, there are some phenomenal SPB/BS horses out there who should have a fair shot at the points and titles available. There have even been some very influential studs that were SPB/BS, and of course mares.
What I think should be tried first, is making divisions (Sort of like they do in the dog world for say Cocker Spaniels, Beagles, etc). Have full show benefits for SPB/BS in their own classes… A FULL line up of classes, not just halter. See how that goes, and if it takes off, then maybe allow the reg. registered horses to compete against the SPB/BS. Unfortunately, the problem then will be that when a SPB/BS beats a patterened/colored horse, the owner of the pattered/colored horse will raise holy Hell.
And, in fact, in halter classes, I do not think a SPB/BS should be able to beat out a regular registry horse simply because of the fact that pattern and color is what APHA is about.
KIRRI, you are too ignorant to even have an intelligent conversation with. Of course things will seem different to you if you are not in the US. APHA is a US based association, not UK, not Australian, and not Canadian.
Solid designates a horse that doesn’t qualify for RR. Solid as in Solid Paint Bred, or previously known as Breeding Stock.
Pattern is Overo, Tobiano, or the combination of the two as Tovero, and the sub-patterns of Overo such as Sabino, Splash, Frame, etc.
Tobiano is Tobiano. It is a dominant gene. The foal either gets the pattern or does not have the gene. They can be almost all white, or very minimally marked. A solid that does not exhibit some sort of Tobiano pattern didn’t get the Tobiano gene, therefore cannot pass on what it does not possess. Does it also have a hidden Overo gene? Possibly. But no coat pattern, no Tobiano.
Color is color, as in sorrel, bay, etc. But in Paints, it is also used to describe a horse that received pattern, or did not (solid).
You use whatever terminology you want to in your country, but don’t come off as hifalutin’ and tell us we are wrong. YOU are the one who is ignorant, and don’t have a clue about Paint genetics. And your grammar and spelling stinks, which takes away any credibility you think you might have. You are a legend, only in your own mind.
CHROMECOWGIRL, I agree with your comments. There are several reasons why the solids dominate in the halter classes. First of all, most of them are really nothing but QHs. Second, most judges have a difficult time looking at a pattern and judging conformation. The optical illusion think kicks in here. And third, most horses with a pattern don’t have the conformation that their solid counterparts have (this mostly applies to Tobianos).
You are right, APHA is a COLOR breed, with bloodline requirements. The goal is COLOR. If all SPBs had equal rights as RR, there would be no incentive to create a colored horse. In that case, APHA might as well merger with AQHA. If a breeder can’t figure out what to do with any solid foals that are created, then that is their problem, not APHA’s problem. If a breeder can’t create value for their SPBs, they are the ones to blame, not APHA, nor the buyers. If a breeder can’t educate themselves on the genetics of color, that is their problem, not APHA. APHA didn’t teach me shit about color genetics. The information is out there for all to find, if one deems it important enough to research it.
“This leads me to a rather interesting sojourn into the psyches of horse owners. If you show, why do you show? If you don’t, why not?”
wings…..I barrel race for a reason – the clock is the judge. No subjectivity. My horse could be pink with purple pokadots and my tack covered in duct tape but if my horse is faster than another, I win.
FHOTD
“We should take up a collection to get that colt. 15 months and she’s riding him. Moron. What did she want for him?”
The ad is on Equinenow.com ad number 46149
They want $2000.00 for him. They claim he’s 15.2 right now. I have my doubts! I’m thinking a small man tought them how to measure;)
I don’t know about everyone else but this shit pisses me off more than most things. These poor horses (and don’t even get me started on the futurities and 2 yr olds racing!) that are being riden so young end up arthritic, sway backed retirees at age 10 or younger. Then someone (usually not the people who caused the problem) has to foot the bill to care for them for the next 20 + yrs till they die. OR they end up packing some kids around in pain looking forward to a trip to the slaughter house after they finally break down completely.
OMG! You are freakin hilarious. I have been rolling on the floor laughing at your comments. Sadly, you speak the truth. And what’s even more sad is that these people that are breeding these horses have kids! It makes me shudder to even think about it.
I show appaloosas both in western judged events and western speed events. I participate with the ApHC, NBHA, and local open show associations. While I believe local clubs should do what they can to obtain non- bias, knowledgeable judges I understand that their are not many professionals willing to work within the budget of a small club. That being said, my horses are all characteristic (and when I say characteristic or non- characteristic I mean they do or do not show common physical appearance of the breed’s standards) appaloosas and are registered as such. If I wanted a well conformed colorless horse that I could use for my events I would have bought quarter horses and gone to AQHA Congress, but I enjoy the different patterns of appaloosas and paints. The paint registry was originally formed to protect quarter horse foals who happened to have a mutated gene that generated the pinto color patterns. I believe that appaloosa and paint show classes should be reserved for characteristic specimens. I also agree that classes should be put aside for non- characteristic horses and that non- characteristic horses should be allowed to breed if they have very good conformation. Currently I am breeding my blanketed appaloosa mare to a blanketed appaloosa stud. I plan on keeping the colt or filly; and if it is a colt at 12 monthes it will be gelded. Both my mare and the stud have credentials as show horses and have amazing bloodlines. My mare and I have shown against non- characteristic horses that were better than us; but we have also shown against some fugly non- characteristic appaloosas who should have been put down for their own sake.
http://www.horseyard.com.au/viewlisting.php?view=63075
i know !!!!
buy a
“beautiful leopard print appaloosa”
for only $100 !!!!!
Yikes – good grief. Well, I will not reward her for her bad behavior with $2000, that is for sure. He will be at the auction eventually for $150 in January!
Pleni you are the idiot.
Terminology is terminology and it has nothing whatsoever to do with countries or breeds.
Color genetics are colour genetics (pick a way of spelling it!!)they have nothing to do with countries or breeds.
Basically the problem is that the registries deem a horse with a blaze face and four white socks as “Solid” when it is a minimal marked – whatever, could be a number of things.
The term “overo” is a nonsense, thought up before we could test for Frame and encompassing Splash/Sabino and Frame- three patterns that have nothing to do with one another, genetically, at all.
As said, I am sick and tired of all this “MY registry uses this term.” If I hear of one more flipping “silver” Grullo I shall SCREAM.
Why would you think I am not in the US by the way, and what has my country of origin got to do with anything- unless of course this has suddenly become a racially exclusive board!!
It is you who need to go an learn a little very basic colour genetics, and then perhaps you could teach you registries???
Whoo! Someone else who hates ‘overo’!
Science is science, no matter where you are.
I, like Brrlrcngapp, breed and show Apps at breed and open shows.
You often hear a similar argument in the App world about colored(patterned) and non colored horses. If you go to App Nationals or World, there are only about 5-10% colored horses in the show ring EXCEPT the using classes (games, roping, cutting etc.) Then you have more colored horses.
About every 5 yrs the club changes the rules on breeding and registration to allow for the solid horses. I read posts and blogs like this ALL the time on our breed. It never changes, it never will.
All you can do is breed for the best horse for your discipline and ignore the rest. I don’t breed for color, I don’t breed for solid. I do breed for the best barrel or cow horse I can get, and I do take into consideration that I chose the App breed, so I do not breed to QH or TB. My horses have QH & TB in them, but I no longer cross out to them. If I wanted a QH or TB, I would breed them not Apps.
KIRRI, I can assure you I am no idiot. I have worked FOR my breed registry, several geneticists, and have written several books and articles on the breeds (including TERMINOLOGY) I’m involved with. Nothing you say is proven scientific fact, only speculation, and it’s spotty at that. If you can please point us in the direction of the links to the scientific papers of the geneticists that researched this, to back up your statements, that would be wonderful. I don’t ever recall Dr. Bowling referring to Overo as “nonsense”.
The reason I don’t think you are in the U. S. is the difference in spelling of certain words, and of course, the usual misunderstanding or disagreement with the way things are done in the U. S.
kirri, apparently you don’t get racisim. Racism involves different races of people not nations. If you were black and she were white, it would be racist, but I don’t think that has anything to do with you living in the UK. LOL. I am guessing you are alluding to NATIONALISM.
haha, I love how all of you fight over every, single, little thing.
but I do love how people believe so strongly in things… yet I hate it at the same time.
so.. carry on, please.
On the Racing TB thing. I had a chance this weekend to see some of a very large and well respected auction of racing TB. These horses were selling in the millions of dollars range. The very 1st horse I saw was a 3yr old stallion, raced well in the 27 races he has run. Sold for 6.1 million dollars. This poor horse will be crippled before he is 6. If he isn’t already. He had the WORST set of front legs I have ever seen. One foot toed out so bad I think all he could do was run in circles. Totally upright pasters, front and back, built downhill and over at the knee. Exactly what kind of foals do they think he will have? Fuglyhorse would have had a blog matterial for a whole year with these horses. And this stallion was the “norm” at this big $$$ sale not the exception.
Racism: belief in a superiority of a particular RACE. sic.
Race: group of persons connected by similar descent.
It is YOU that need to consult a dictionary.
I will agree that racism has commonly come to apply to colour rather than place of origin.
Common application does not make something right!!!
Anne Bowling, unfortunately has been dead for a number of years.
I shall not, therefore put words in her mouth but a lot of her theories have now been overtaken.
The term “overo” IS nonsense, lumping three totally non-related patterns together under one name is obviously a nonsense.
One that is usually used to up the price on horses, which is the main reason I object to it so much.
The fact that I spell things differently is irrelevant- I could change the bias of my spellcheck but prefer not to.
I have a very good understanding of the way things are done in the US- and also of the way they are done in Belgium, Germany, Australia and the Middle East- I’m not from any of those places!!
In fact where I am from is totally irrelevant to this argument.
Again, “If you can please point us in the direction of the links to the scientific papers of the geneticists that researched this, to back up your statements, that would be wonderful.”
I’m betting kirri has none to post.
I own a SPB mare that I absolutely love and I also have two RR horses that are acutally better built – tons of QH on all three. As far as the SPB vs RR paints. I think they should have more SPB classes, but I don’t think there is always fairness in the show ring regardless of SBP/RR. I am new to the show ring and have to say that when I attended a futurity show last September and was watching the halter classes I was trying to see if my placements were the same as the judges (in most cases it was). Most of the horses in these classes were solid or nearly solid with a few exceptions. I watched a very nicely built tobi go into the ring and said “wow she’s nice” and was told by my experienced show friend “yeah, she’s very nice but that’s a lot of white.” Then I watched her lose out to minimal white overo that had crooked front legs. I’ve also noticed that the politics of it seems to be prevelent it seems that people who are well known win even when the horse isn’t necessarily better. It discourages newbies.
Ugh….would someone please feed that horse an oat?!
Ok, I gave up on reading the comments this time. I was bored by the second “Solid Paints are Paints Too!!” “No, Spots are better!” catfight.
But, I agree with FHOTD about how much fun it is to beat someone with a horse they threw away.
I picked up a 2 yr old pony stud at an auction for the grande sum of $170. Everyone I knew there laughed at me for buying him. I took him home, and first thing gave him some ‘brain surgery’ then worked with him over the next 2 years. By the time he was 6 he was a multiple championship winner in Versatility, Hunter, Trail Obsticle, Western Pleasure and Showmanship, all with my students riding him. He also was an excellent trail pony, traffic safe, and bombproof. 13.2, walker/Icelandic cross. Best pony I’ve ever owned. He was Fugly because of his roman nose, to big head, and short neck, but the rest of him was sound.