The American Warmblood Society: Registering Goofy Mixed Breed Shit Since 1981
Aug 02 2007
As I mentioned in a comment yesterday, warmbloods were one of the few types of horses that used to be immune from the perils of being bred by folks like the lady who wrote yesterday’s ad. This is because they were just too damn expensive. You couldn’t pick one up from Honest Tom’s Used Horse Dealership down the valley, and well hell, they were just too much trouble anyway. Inspections? Dressage? Riding? Huh? We just want to breed hosses and make some money! That all is too much work. We’ll just breed us some Quarabs instead. We kin get us some Ay-rab mares at the auction for $100 a pop and my uncle Jimmy has got hisself a foundation Quarter Horse that goes back to Doc Bar!
But then, everything changed in 1981 with the formation of the American Warmblood Society. That sounds high-falutin’, doesn’t it? But the truth is, it was designed so anyone can register any sort of silly shit combination of breeds and make it sound like it’s not only a purebred, but a high-priced warmblood!
You think I’m exaggerating? Let’s look at their standards for registration. This is taken from their own web site.
“To be eligible for registration a horse/pony can be of any breed stock or combination thereof, except 100% hot- blood (Thoroughbred or Arabian) or 100% cold-blood (draft breeds), which can be nominated (see below).”
OK, let’s see below.
“To be eligible for nomination a horse/pony can be 100% hot-blood (Thoroughbred or Arabian) or 100% cold-blood (draft breeds). All AWS benefits are the same as registration.”
OK, so basically – it can be anything so long as it is not a sheep. Awesome.
But hey, they pretend to have performance requirements for registration! You’d think that would be a step in the right direction, hey? At least until you consider some of the achievements that would fit into their guidelines. Here are some examples:
1. Scoring a 62 in a training level dressage test. OK, I’m not a dressage rider. But I distinctly remember hearing about a friend’s horse that blew sky-high bucking and still scored in the low 60′s – because dressage is scored piecemeal, you don’t get knocked totally out if your horse goes ballistic on one maneuver like you would in a pleasure class, correct? So I’m going to guess that this is not a supreme accomplishment. Also, if I am not mistaken, Training Level is the level at which you begin adding complicated maneuvers like…cantering. There is no lateral work required. There are no higher level movements. Basically, you have to be able to walk-trot-canter and do circles, right? Feel free to comment, but that does not sound like a complicated test of athletic ability to me.
2. Placing 15th out of 15 in a USA Equestrian recognized show jumping class. (What does that exactly mean? USEF? I am confused.) But anyway, they only care that you place anywhere between 1st and 15th. No comment on how many horses that has to be out of. At least the stock breeds only give you points when you beat other horses. The way I am reading this all you have to do is find a little show and not get disqualified and, woo hoo, your horse is an American Warmblood! Correct me if I’m wrong.
3. (Here’s my favorite) You can be registered if three of your offspring have passed the performance requirements! YES! So even if my stallion is a fugly knothead who can’t get out of his own way at the trot, I can breed him willy-nilly and hope that three of his babies will be able to place last in a jumper class, because that will make him a registered American Warmblood!
I believe this last option explains the marketing tactics employed for our first horse.
These folks are my favorite. They win the irresponsible breeding sweepstakes. They have actually purchased the domain name “zerostudfee.com.” YES! It’s true! You can breed to their cremello tobiano American Warmblood Stallion for FREE! It’s a backyard breeder bonanza!
This is their stallion. He is 1/2 Saddlebred and 1/2 Quarter Horse. We had one of those when I was growing up. We all sat around joking about how something must have jumped the fence, because no one in their right mind would breed those 2 things together deliberately. Ah, I miss the 80′s. These days, someone did indeed breed those two things together deliberately, and this is the result. They actually got a pretty decent horse, if you don’t look at the front legs from the knees down. But did I mention that this is a 2 year old with no performance record? Yay, let’s book a zillion mares for free to a 2 year old who hasn’t done shit. I particularly like the way they did his youtube video in slo-mo to make it look like he has suspension at the trot he actually does not possess. Their ad brags that he “has the potential to sire colored warmblood foals that will excel in the dressage arena.” Hey, my test scores in grade school showed I had the potential to run Microsoft and possibly rule the world. Didn’t happen.
I have a suggestion for this gelding’s AWS registered name: “Heinz 57.” This, you see, is a 1/4 Oldenburg, 1/4 Paint, 1/4 Thoroughbred 1/4 Quarter Horse and I hve to say, he has managed to get the worst of each of those! He got a big old warmblood head, the straight shoulder and post legs of a low quality Quarter Horse, and we have a weird combination up front of over at the knee along with straight pasterns. Now there’s a funky look. But hey! He is a warmblood. Registered and everything. AND, as they have to brag, his paternal grandsire also sired Anky van Grunsven’s Olympic horse! Woo! He’s practically royalty. So you’re gonna have to fork over $8000 to put this green broke gelding (who trail rides and has been over cavaletti…again, woo!) in your barn.
(Remind me to do a feature on how having a famous grandsire does not mean anything if the rest of the pedigree is totally undistinguished crap. I can post an endless sea of fugly that has 1 stellar grandsire.)
Finally, while I was searching, I found this listing – obviously submitted by one of my fans! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I am ROTFL. You are funny. But maybe you will get someone ‘s attention with that, so kudos to you!
http://horsequest.equine.com/Stallions/ad_details.aspx?search_id=a74d77ff-93f0-4d68-8a49-ca3b523cb628&lid=482545 It’s particularly funny that “Shame, Maine” shows up on the map. Is there a Shame, Maine? Maybe we can use it for a penal colony for people who threaten to send their horse to the auction if a rescue does not come and get it RIGHT NOW.
144 comments to “The American Warmblood Society: Registering Goofy Mixed Breed Shit Since 1981”
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*preens smugly*
I can see it.. I wonder if anybody else can…
that grey arab looks like it had its face bound at birth…
i was even told of a mini breeder who weans and starves her foals at 4 weeks so they are tiny, what has the human race come to? i am ashamed to be human at times like this.
wtf r u preening about ? did i say something stupid? thats not new…..lol…or did the A.R. fellow spew more shit ?
It’s a secret, LOL- I might be wrong, too, which is why I haven’t just said it:-D I’d feel really stewpit (that’s how we have to say it around here, because it has such a different inflection than stoopid) if I was wrong, *anxious glance*
Here’s a lovely example of fuckwads in action. You’d think they’d at least feed her…..
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1027153
There’s another thing I don’t understand, unless it’s the almighty dollar. WHY are foals weaned at 3-4months? Surely you would end up with a much more sane horse to allow them to wean a bit later. But then, someone would have to pay for that mare that’s nursing, and they do use lots of calories then. SHESH! Let the foal have what nature intended for it to have!
This year(fisrt time ever) I weaned at 3 months. The mares is not maintaining her weight well.So big assed foal has been weaned. Seeing that mare it may well be her putting everything into her foal and not a feed issue. I know how well fed mine are and i have one that looks pretty similar to her, in weight, due to putting everything she has into her foal. But then too it could be cause we have not had rain in 38 days and no pasture left and they are getting hay, soaked beet pulp, grain and all kinds of other goodies to compensate for lack of grass.
I would never post a photo of her in her present condition would be to ashamed too.
Some ppl should not be allowed to own cameras and horses
i purchased a riding horse only to find it was pregnant. i weaned the foal at 4 months as the mum was keeping all the food in her and got too fat and the foal was not doing so well.so she was just not a good milk provider.the feed was vet advised, so not my fault.fat old tart..lol.the foal picked up well once weaned and hand fed.i think 6 months is a good weaning time.but i know shite all
Lifelike,
Con was bred, albeit strangely, on purpose. Wynn bred not necessarily bloodlines but conformation and attitude.
Her other ponies have done well in hunter land. But since he’s at an odd height, she had to find something for him and decided on eventing.
I’m sure her other ponies are just as athletic but since they are of proper height, they tend to go to hunter/jumper land.
He wasn’t an accident, he just grew a little taller than the others.
BTW, his full brother is up for breeding. Probably just as cheeky as Con.
really thats fascinating *yawn*.. wtf is a ‘con’?
A mare with a baby at side can get that look no matter how well you feed her. Sometimes the babies just drain them – I know of one like that right now and it’s just like witchy said, the only way that mare is going to pick up is to get that baby off of her, and you have to wait until baby is old enough to do that. It’s like how some women lose all the baby weight (and then some!) from nursing.
What freaks me out is that mare is grade and they bred her back. Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Who do you think is going to buy all of these grade horses?
One observation: I think it is interesting the same people who defend a Heinz 57 mix if the goal is a jumper will bash it if the goal is a trail horse. You know what I think this is about? If the Heinz 57 mix gets proper training, he’s going to be worth some money. Well, duh. If anything gets proper training and it isn’t so conformationally flawed as to affect its immediate soundness, it’s going to be worth some money. With training, that midget Paint weanling can become a Spotted Sport Pony. (Read the blog more often if you think most buyers know 2 things about conformation and will know it’s not a fancy schmancy pony breed by looking at it. They don’t. If it jumps around quietly with their kid, they will buy it)
The problem is, the odds are not in favor of that baby getting the right training. The odds are excellent he will be sold to some kid who wants a 4-H project. They will let him get away with pushy crap because baybeez r so kyooot! Two years down the road, they will have a pushy two year old pony and will be appalled that he is so small (or they will have overfed him, ruined his legs and crippled him, I see a lot of that, too). You know where it goes from here.
If someone grabbed up that mare now, that baby could have a rosy future. Why don’t one of you in Texas do just that? The price is right. Break Momma while you’re at it, give her a chance to live a good life.
Thought for the day: I think someone should start a rescue that is in the specific business of training. I can count on one hand the rescues I know of where riding gets accomplished. Most rescues don’t have anyone who can ride a horse who may be a handful or is unbroke, so they tend to “warehouse” until an adopter comes along. What is really needed for most of these horses to secure their futures is training.
Goofy Mixed Breed Shit this takes the cake! By they way saw a Zorse at auction recently poor wild doomed HUMAN creation that he was. Anything for a buck right….
http://www.spotsnstripes.com/ZorseInfo.htm
My husband has a magnificent 6 y/o Belgian/Morgan draft cross gelding. This cross is one of the lucky ones because he turned out well conformationally and proportionally. His temperament is awesome. A gentle giant. He was bred by the Amish, broke by them, not trained. Now that my husband has spent months retraining him with gentleness and has him loading easily and is putting some miles on him he’s going to be a fantastic horse. Oh he was rescued from the auction block which is where the Amish tried to dump him after the frigged him up good with roughness and abuse.
FHD, you make a great point about rescues needing training.
It all comes down to money. Trainers don’t donate time and effort (at least not in my state for the one statewide rescue group) to help rehabilitate these horses. Instead, they must rely on the volunteers. Many of those folks are only equipped to provide care and housing, not deal with whatever baggage that horse may have. A number of horses turn out to have dangerous behaviors when they are fully healthy, and thus are marginally suited to being placed with anyone halfways competent.
Heck I had to turn down fostering one mare whose separation anxiety issues are so extreme that she can, and will, hurt herself over it. Of course no one knew this when she came into the program. No trainer will make time to work with her for free either. So there you are, the mare, while young and sound, has a limited future.
A good many trainers could buy themselves some much needed “good press” if they too, stepped up to the plate and donated time and effort.
FHD, I agree 2000% about not “warehousing” rescues. At our rescue, as with most rescues, we attend the immediate health and wellness needs first. Then we give them time to socialize with other horses and people. You’d be amazed at how many behavioral problems can be resolved with giving a horse some down time to just be a horse, BTW, and learn how to function in a herd. But I digress. Once they have recovered physically and are ready emotionally and psychologically, and that can take 6 months to a year, we will complete a full training evaluation with an outside professional trainer. The trainer gives us some ideas on the horse’s current ability, potential, and readiness for training, then we will begin serious ground work. In some cases, we can start a horse here ourselves but with limited time (since we both work full time to keep our rescue going), we sometimes will send a horse to a trainer for starting. Then we will look for homes. We do make our adoptables available before then to knowledgeable horse homes with either a trainer ready to take them on, or to homes that can demonstrate skills enough to train the horse themselves or to manage minor training or behavioral issues. Honestly, we get very attached these creatures and but don’t want them back. We want our placements to be successful and sending an untrained young horse into a family with little skill is a recipe for people to get hurt and the horse to get abused. I wish more rescues did better on the training end of things but honestly, if you have a big population of horses, that can be a serious drain of time and money. Sometimes warehousing is the best that a rescue can do, which is in my mind somewhat better (as long as the care is appropriate) than being neglected, abused, or slaughtered.
Hey Fuglyhorseoftheday … may I make a suggestion?? I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but (sob, sob), I only have access to the internet through dial-up. (Yea, I know, I need to update but at the moment, it’s not on the priority list.) SO … would it be possible to put some of your older posts on a separate page so it doesn’t take so long to load? I’m addicted to the blog, but sometimes have to wait for a LONG time for it to load well enough so that I can see the most recent post. Thanks!
FHOTD, this is killing me. You said you were doing an NH special, and I can’t bear the wait! hehe
MyGirlRebel said…
Here’s a lovely example of fuckwads in action. You’d think they’d at least feed her…..
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1027153
August 3, 2007 12:07 AM
LOOK AT THE OTHER ADS FOR THAT OWNER…
holy freakin GOD man… STOP BREEDING SUCH USELESS ANIMALS! They DO know about registered horses, as they have a registered gelding. And just because she’s not registered doesn’t make her worthless – per se – but when you read the comments for the stallion she was bred to…
“Our vet says he’s supper quiet for a 2 yr old stud. He could possibly be homozygous, time will tell as it’s likely he’s serviced our broodmare. He rides, loads, leads, bathes and stands for farrier. He has power steering, brakes and reverse and has been used on our West Texas cattle ranch.”
WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE THINKING?! Yup, when you put your 2 year old stud colt out with a mare, HE’S GONNA BREED HER. And just because he ‘might be homozygous’ doesn’t mean you have to breed him to 50 mares to find out.
ARGH!!! THIS is what I’m talking about.
PS – they want $1,200 for that unregistered goofball stud that has ‘power steering, brakes and reverse’… wish he came with a lemon law clause too.
And how do they even KNOW he has ‘power steering, brakes and reverse’? What are they doing on his back at that age!? If they’re using him with cattle, when did they back him – eighteen months?!
HEY!!! I’m trying to find fugly horse’s fan…the one with the mixed stallion that quoted her..just trying to find the reference, can anyone help… Also fugly or anyone else, would you want to pick apart my mare?? I recieved her as a gift and she is registered… Only 3, but I’m just wondering if she has good confirmation, or what she is built for…She is my baby and I don’t plan on breeding her, but just curious what anyone else thinks…of course in my mind she is perfect
Opps Silly me..my email address is mifish@gmail.com
I love your Blog, it’s guaranteed to crack me up no matter how badly my day is going. It’s refreshing to see that FINALLY someone sees things the way I do.
I was wondering if you could please write about the Walking/Spotted Saddle Horse Association. Whatever happened to the horses that were always associated with wealthy plantation owners, the pure bred, the original breed standard that actually had a gait? Now, all you see is a bunch of yayhoo rednecks riding and breeding culls that don’t have a gait and are spotted.
I would direct your bleeding eyeballs to this ad:
http://www.draftsforsale.com/ShowAd/index.php?id=46643592ba6c7
I read it and thought… “save on shipping from Canada? what?”
and then realized they are trying to COMPETE with the PMU market.
awesome.
heh, rin, that isn’t the half of it. That seller was the subject of one of the wackiest threads ever on COTH. She has a website, virginiasporthorses.com or something like that. At one point she was altering coggins records.
She’ll get all kinds of crazy if you figure out who her “supplier” is and go to them directly, and blacklist you and whatnot.
oops, rin, also forgot to mention that she sells horses from the PMU market, not really competing with them. So she gets all angsty if you find out which farm they’re coming from and buy them directly, for a lower price.
“And just because he ‘might be homozygous’ doesn’t mean you have to breed him to 50 mares to find out.”
They’re probably either too cheap to have him tested, or they don’t know about it, sigh.
As for the fugly NON APPROVED cremello giving American warmbloods and breeders a bad name, he’s a hot topic on the ultimate dressage bb too, lol. The consensus seems to be, that he’d be a nice gelding. Good suggestion….
Here’s a thought on crossing Heinz 57 with Heinz 57. If neither of the Heinz 57′s have a single quality, then breeding them is a pretty dumb idea. But in the case of finding a Heinz 57 with some sort of great qualities or talent (ie a jumper) and crossing it with another Heinz 57 with the same qualities and talents, your odds of getting a good horse go way up, regardless of being “Heinz 57″. The problem with this is that it takes some skill to match these types of horses, and most people either don’t know or don’t care and figure they’ll take a shot in the dark and hope for a miracle, and more often than not they get fugly and useless instead.
Hello FHD and other FHD fans!
I don’t know about other breeds, but with Arabs – here in the UK, anyway – the fact that a horse is ‘registered’ with the Arab Horse Society (AHS) means NOTHING! (Although of course unregistered Arabs are even more worthless.) It just means that the breeder has paid (not a huge amount) for the foal to be registered in the appropriate AHS stud book (Pure-bred, Anglo or Part-bred)and that it is genuinely a pure-bred, Anglo or part-bred Arab.
There is no implication that the horse is any good. The vast majority of pure-bred Arab foals are registered. It doesn’t mean they have good conformation, good bloodlines or anything else.
To be licensed for breeding, an Arab colt (from the age of 2) does have to pass a vet inspection. But this is fairly basic – just checking that the colt has no major glaring inheritable defects (such as a club foot), that it has both testicles, etc. (Hey – better than no vetting at all, I know!)
As there is no specific performance-testing or grading for this breed, a prospective breeding stallion’s worth is generally judged on his in-hand (halter/breed-classes) show results… These pretty much serve as an unofficial ‘inspection’/'grading’ process: colts who consistently do well, at the best shows, in top company, will attract more and better-quality mares than those who don’t (providing they have the pedigree to ‘back up’ these results).
This does not, of course, stop people breeding from mediocre or even seriously fugly Arab colts and stallions – and there are waaaay too many of these, cos waaaay too many barn-blind people keep Arab colts entire that have ‘GELD ME’ written all over them!
Sure – these mediocre/fugly Arab stallions are licensed, and the mediocre/fugly Arab mares they are bred to are registered, but at least here everyone knows that ‘registered’ means nothing, and ‘licensed’ means very little!
It seems to me that the problem in the US is not the WB registration per se, but the fact that people believe it means something!!!
I run a training rescue. I pick up unreg. apps at auction for pennys, get them reg with app sport horse, train them according to what suits them best and then sell them by September. I make a TON of money doing this. So say what you want about the fake registries, they give the horses a better chance then they’d have otherwise.
lol opps. i actually really liked movado, despite the fact he was a saddlebred/qh, i was looking at him as an all together package, something that would throw height and color into a baby. i always wanted a buckskin paint thing.
I havent found a better put together stallion that would throw that color. Can you reccommend me one? Im not currently breeding anything, but eventually, when I am a millionaire, I’d like to at least breed my one mare. Dont worry, Im waiting until I am a millionaire.
http://www.geocities.com/
whsprngwindsfarm/dancer.html
Future stallion? Perfect conformation? I think not. BLINDERS people, BLINDERS.
Bighorsekisses, if you want buckskin and pinto and saddlebred, try this one: http://www.goldenventurefarm.com He is so much superior to Movado you can’t even compare the two stallions. There are also plenty of cremello stallions, with proven pedigrees and approved for breeding, which makes it silly that someone would breed to Movado even just for the color, because you can get the color elsewhere. Maybe not for a ZeroStudFee , but in the long run, the stud fee you will have spent will be well worth it.
I was always suspicious of the breeding involved in the warmblood society, and all “sport horses” – last i checked these were called GRADE horses and cost about 200.00 bucks so that your kids had something to ride around the backyard in! LOL
I rode a Saddlebred/QH last weekend. Let’s just say it was… interesting.
I had an appendix gelding once who had Rugged Lark as his paternal grandsire. He was one of the most adorable horses I ever owned, and a wonderful hunter/jumper for the first month, until he did what apperently made me his 6th owner in 2 years, and went completely nuts. I got lucky and managed to trade him for a 6 year old pony who had just had a foal and had been saddle broke a few years before but never ridden since :<
I got a call several months later from someone who said they got him from the people who got him from the people we traded him too…. They asked what the hell was wrong with him.
This may be a dumb question but….how did they get a Paint?
Isn’t a Saddlebred and a QH solid colored? I could see if maybe it had crop out spots, but…..
I actually really like that cremello stallion. I’d like him even more with his goolies cut off.
His front end looks like my baby’s. I bet he’s got the short, choppy trot that feels like a kick to the spine, too.
Jem:
If you are making “a ton of money,” you are not running a rescue. You are a horse dealer. There is nothing at all wrong with that, but it is not a rescue.
I don’t advertise it as a rescue but I can’t think of anything else to call taking a horse that would have been slaughtered and giving it worth. I guess it depends on WHY you do it. The money is just a wonderful side effect. I would do it even if it weren’t profitable. I don’t do it for the people so I don’t mind charging what I know the horse is now worth.
Jem I would call that, and I would advertise it as such, proudly ” Recycling”
Let’s here it for the recycled horses, folks, bought form the slaughter yard, taught some self worth and now worth $XXX.000!!!!
“Let’s here it for the recycled horses, folks,…”
Did you mean HEAR?
Correct spelling = intelligence = credibility for your opinion.
There is no Shame, Maine. But they picked the right state to list. Alot of these horses posted seem to be from Maine and Maine seems to be the place from irresponcible breeders. We have a rescue in Union, Maine that breeds a rescued grade paint stallion to rescue mares(including at one point a shetland)and sells the foals. Another poorly bred stallion (not registered, bad conformation, bad movement, no talent for anything besides pooping)is being stood locally to basically any mare whose owners will pay the $300 and turn her out in his field. He has a great personality, but he’s FUGLY and I told the owner so. Did I mention, he’s a grade paint? He also has to foals out of Shetland mares. Yay! Maybe they could be a Rolex competitor too?
Wow! Sorry for all the bad grammar in my last post.
HorsesandHounds, you said, “We have a rescue in Union, Maine that breeds a rescued grade paint stallion to rescue mares(including at one point a shetland)and sells the foals.” In my opinion, anyone that understands the state of the horse overpopulation problem (and ANY rescue should) but breeds anyway is NOT a rescue. They are really no more than dealers using the term rescue to solicit money and sympathy, which to me is way worse than just coming out and saying you’re a horse trader.
I was riding this horse for someone and I didn’t know the breed of it. I knew it was a TB cross. My friend had heard via the grape vine that so and so said he was a warm blood. I thought WTF? If this horse is a warm blood then I am the next big Olympic star. I asked the owner, turns out he’s a paint/TB. Fast forward almost a year. I take a job working at a foxhunting barn. My coworker is so and so. During a conversation she mentions the horse and calls him a warm blood. I informed her that he isn’t a warm blood he’s a TB/paint. She says that she considers anything TB mixed with a cold blood type, i.e. stock horse, appy, qh etc., a warm blood. I informed her that the rest of the horse world would beg to differ. So frustrating. But luckily she doesn’t do any breeding!